The 7th Trump is the Last Trump

[Diaste]

On 9/25/2023 at 12:44 PM, WilliamL said:

  

Out of curiosity, where do you gents place the following trumpets in your sequence of End Time events?

I'm not yet convinced. 

On 9/25/2023 at 12:44 PM, WilliamL said:

Isaiah 27:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.

Zech. 9:14 And the LORD shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord GOD shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.

Note that in the latter event, thus also the former if it is the same event, YHWH will be the one blowing the trumpet, not an angel.

I don't see 'thus also in the former'. Not sure yet how to reconcile this other than; a King giving a command is the King ordering an act, therefore it is as the King did it. Kings go to war, no one ever says a Sargent gave the command to go to war even though the Sargent fights and the King does not. 

It could be as simple as the Lord is responsible for the sounding of the trumpet and not necessarily sounding it personally. 

On 9/25/2023 at 12:44 PM, WilliamL said:

Last Daze, you say that "7th trumpet heralds the descent of Christ to the clouds where He sounds the last trumpet, the trumpet of God." Which actually means, as you wrote it, that the 7th angelic trumpet will be the one before the last trumpet. So you seem to be disagreeing with Diaste.

 

[DeighAnn]

7 hours ago, transmogrified said:

The scripture in 1 Thess. 4 calls those that sleep that come with Christ the dead in Christ...BUT WHEN THIS IS POINTED OUT, THEN YOU THEN SAY THE DEAD IN CHRIST ARE WICKED UNBELIEVERS...SO THE POINT IS ABSOLUTELY MOOT...THIS IS HANDLING THE WORD OF GOD DECEITFULLY.. THE DEAD IN CHRIST ARE NOT, NEVER WILL BE, NEVER CAN BE, THE WICKED DEAD...THIS IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE...AND ITS EVEN MORE FALSE BY MAKING THE CLAIM BECAUSE THIS SCRIPTURE DOES NOT SAY THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, IT CAN NOT BE REFERRING TO BELIEVERS...

Back at you.  When Corinth says it is the DEAD that are raised you call them believers JUST BECAUSE they get a body that can only be killed in the lake of fire.  

NOW YOU SHOW ME WHERE THE LIVING HAVE DECAY BEING RAISED IN GLORY 


AKA ANY VERSE ANYWHERE IN THE ENTIRE BIBLE THAT SPEAKS

 

 

OF DUST

 

BEING 

EITHER 

RE USED
RE FORMED
RE BREATHED INTO by GOD so it has lif
RAISED UP AT ANY TIME (OTHER THAN THOSE WHO slept or 'DIDN'T DECAY and were used to show the glory of GOD' and before you ask it is because the dead who were raised from the 'grave' were raised in their spiritual body and those who didn't decay and were for the glory of God 'died' but like someone getting cpr or being frozen and then revived isn't the same)
 

ANY BODY LESS SOUL GOING AND POSSESSING A CARCASE OR CORPSE

OR ANYTHING THAT EVEN VAGUELY SAYS THAT A CORPSE RISES UP



AND I WILL SHOW YOU TIME AFTER TIME 'THE DEAD' AS IN THE 

SPIRITUAL SOUL/BODY/SPIRIT ARE RASIED UP AND THEY ARE RAISED UP AS 100% COMPLETE.  


PROVE WHAT YOU CLAIM AND THEN CLAIM IT 

BECAUSE CLAIMING IT ISN'T PROVING IT.  


HERE, I'LL GO FIRST SO YOU CAN SEE WHAT I AM ASKING OF YOU 


 

3498. nekros ►
Strong's Concordance
nekros: dead
Original Word: νεκρός, ά, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: nekros
Phonetic Spelling: (nek-ros')
Definition: dead
Usage: (a) adj: dead, lifeless, subject to death, mortal,

I GOT 130 ADJ   HOW MANY NOUNS DO YOU HAVE?

 

obviously i am missing something and obviously you know what that is so prove it.  

SHOW ME YOUR CORPSES BEING RASIED UP FOR SOULS FROM HEAVEN TO POSSESS

(b) noun: a dead body, a corpse.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE  That is all i am asking is for SOMEONE to show me a 'corpse' being raised up from the dirt and a soul/spirit from heaven possessing it because i can't see it.  

GOT IT?   I AM UNABLE TO SEE IT.  I KEEP ASKING AND ASKING AND ASKING AND ALL I EVER GET IS THE WORDS OF MEN TRYING TO TELL ME CORPSES ARE RASIED AND SOULS/SPIRITS REPOSSES THEM

DO YOU THINK IT IS FUN BEING HERE?  DO YOU THINK IT IS FUN TO FIGHT EVERYONE?  WELL IT ISN'T.  SO PROVE TO ME WHAT YOU ARE SAYING SO I CAN KNOW IT IS RIGHT

 

BECAUSE IT SEEMS SO VERY VERY VERY WRONG.  THE ONLY BODY I KNOW OF THAT WAS FORMED OF THE EARTH IS ADAM AND THE EARTH HAD NOT BEEN CORRUPTED YET.  GET THAT?   

NOW, I AM SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE THAT CORPSES ARE 'RAISED UP' FROM THE DUNG OF THE CORRUPTED EARTH AND POSSESSION OF THAT CORPSE TAKES PLACE.

CALL IT DECEIPTFUL IF YOU DARE BUT I AM NOT THE ONE CLAIMING THAT SOMETHING SO UNCLEAN WE CAN'T EVEN TOUCH OR BECOME UNCLEAN OURSELVES


IS GOING TO BECOME OUR ETERNAL SPIRITUAL BODY RAISED UP IN GLORY POWER AND INCORRUPION.  
 

Englishman's Concordance
Strong's Greek: 3498. νεκρός (nekros) — 130 Occurrences

Matthew 8:22 Adj-AMP
GRK: ἄφες τοὺς νεκροὺς θάψαι τοὺς
NAS: Me, and allow the dead to bury
KJV: and let the dead bury their
INT: leave the dead to bury

Matthew 8:22 Adj-AMP
GRK: τοὺς ἑαυτῶν νεκρούς
NAS: to bury their own dead.
KJV: bury their dead.
INT: their own dead

Matthew 10:8 Adj-AMP
GRK: ἀσθενοῦντας θεραπεύετε νεκροὺς ἐγείρετε λεπροὺς
NAS: raise [the] dead, cleanse
KJV: raise the dead, cast out
INT: Sick heal dead raise lepers

Matthew 11:5 Adj-NMP
GRK: ἀκούουσιν καὶ νεκροὶ ἐγείρονται καὶ
NAS: hear, [the] dead are raised
KJV: hear, the dead are raised up,
INT: hear and dead are raised and

1 Corinthians 15:12 Adj-GMP

GRK: ὅτι ἐκ νεκρῶν ἐγήγερται πῶς
NAS: that He has been raised from the dead, how
KJV: he rose from the dead, how say
INT: that from among [the] dead he has been raised how

1 Corinthians 15:12 Adj-GMP
GRK: ὅτι ἀνάστασις νεκρῶν οὐκ ἔστιν
NAS: resurrection of the dead?
KJV: no resurrection of the dead?
INT: that a resurrection of [the] dead not there is

1 Corinthians 15:13 Adj-GMP
GRK: δὲ ἀνάστασις νεκρῶν οὐκ ἔστιν
NAS: resurrection of the dead, not even
KJV: no resurrection of the dead, then is
INT: however a resurrection of [the] dead not there is

1 Corinthians 15:15 Adj-NMP
GRK: εἴπερ ἄρα νεκροὶ οὐκ ἐγείρονται
NAS: if in fact the dead are not raised.
KJV: if so be that the dead rise not.
INT: if then [the] dead not are raised

1 Corinthians 15:16 Adj-NMP
GRK: εἰ γὰρ νεκροὶ οὐκ ἐγείρονται
NAS: For if the dead are not raised,
KJV: For if the dead rise not,
INT: if indeed [the] dead not are raised

1 Corinthians 15:20 Adj-GMP
GRK: ἐγήγερται ἐκ νεκρῶν ἀπαρχὴ τῶν
NAS: has been raised from the dead, the first fruits
KJV: from the dead, [and] become
INT: has been raised from among [the] dead first-fruit of those

1 Corinthians 15:21 Adj-GMP
GRK: ἀνθρώπου ἀνάστασις νεκρῶν
NAS: [came] the resurrection of the dead.
KJV: the resurrection of the dead.
INT: man resurrection of [the] dead

1 Corinthians 15:29 Adj-GMP
GRK: ὑπὲρ τῶν νεκρῶν εἰ ὅλως
NAS: who are baptized for the dead? If
KJV: for the dead, if
INT: for the dead if at all

1 Corinthians 15:29 Adj-NMP
GRK: εἰ ὅλως νεκροὶ οὐκ ἐγείρονται
NAS: If the dead are not raised
KJV: the dead, if the dead rise not
INT: if at all [the] dead not are raised

1 Corinthians 15:32 Adj-NMP
GRK: ὄφελος εἰ νεκροὶ οὐκ ἐγείρονται
NAS: me? If the dead are not raised,
KJV: me, if the dead rise not?
INT: profit if [the] dead not are raised

1 Corinthians 15:35 Adj-NMP
GRK: ἐγείρονται οἱ νεκροί ποίῳ δὲ
NAS: How are the dead raised?
KJV: How are the dead raised up? and
INT: are raised the dead with what moreover

1 Corinthians 15:42 Adj-GMP
GRK: ἀνάστασις τῶν νεκρῶν σπείρεται ἐν
NAS: is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown
KJV: [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown
INT: resurrection of the dead It is sown in

1 Corinthians 15:52 Adj-NMP
GRK: καὶ οἱ νεκροὶ ἐγερθήσονται ἄφθαρτοι
NAS: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised
KJV: and the dead shall be raised
INT: and the dead will be raised imperishable

2 Corinthians 1:9 Adj-AMP
GRK: ἐγείροντι τοὺς νεκρούς
NAS: but in God who raises the dead;
KJV: which raiseth the dead:
INT: raises the dead

Galatians 1:1 Adj-GMP
GRK: αὐτὸν ἐκ νεκρῶν
NAS: who raised Him from the dead),
KJV: him from the dead;)
INT: him from among [the] dead

Ephesians 1:20 Adj-GMP
GRK: αὐτὸν ἐκ νεκρῶν καὶ καθίσας
NAS: when He raised Him from the dead and seated
KJV: him from the dead, and set
INT: him from among [the] dead and having set [him]

Ephesians 2:1 Adj-AMP
GRK: ὑμᾶς ὄντας νεκροὺς τοῖς παραπτώμασιν
NAS: And you were dead in your trespasses
KJV: [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses
INT: you being dead in trespasses

Ephesians 2:5 Adj-AMP
GRK: ὄντας ἡμᾶς νεκροὺς τοῖς παραπτώμασιν
NAS: even when we were dead in our transgressions,
KJV: were dead in sins,
INT: being we dead in trespasses

Ephesians 5:14 Adj-GMP
GRK: ἐκ τῶν νεκρῶν καὶ ἐπιφαύσει
NAS: And arise from the dead, And Christ
KJV: arise from the dead, and Christ
INT: from among the dead and will will shine upon

Philippians 3:11 Adj-GMP
GRK: τὴν ἐκ νεκρῶν
NAS: to the resurrection from the dead.
KJV: unto the resurrection of the dead.
INT: from out of dead

Colossians 1:18 Adj-GMP
GRK: ἐκ τῶν νεκρῶν ἵνα γένηται
NAS: the firstborn from the dead, so
KJV: the firstborn from the dead; that in
INT: from among the dead that might be

Colossians 2:12 Adj-GMP
GRK: αὐτὸν ἐκ νεκρῶν
NAS: of God, who raised Him from the dead.
KJV: him from the dead.
INT: him from among the dead

Colossians 2:13 Adj-AMP
GRK: καὶ ὑμᾶς νεκροὺς ὄντας ἐν
NAS: When you were dead in your transgressions
KJV: you, being dead in your sins
INT: And you dead being in

1 Thessalonians 1:10 Adj-GMP
GRK: ἐκ τῶν νεκρῶν Ἰησοῦν τὸν
NAS: He raised from the dead, [that is] Jesus,
KJV: from the dead, [even] Jesus,
INT: from among the dead Jesus who

1 Thessalonians 4:16 Adj-NMP
GRK: καὶ οἱ νεκροὶ ἐν Χριστῷ
NAS: of God, and the dead in Christ
KJV: of God: and the dead in Christ
INT: and the dead in Christ

2 Timothy 2:8 Adj-GMP
GRK: ἐγηγερμένον ἐκ νεκρῶν ἐκ σπέρματος
NAS: risen from the dead, descendant
KJV: from the dead according to
INT: raised from among [the] dead of [the] seed

2 Timothy 4:1 Adj-AMP
GRK: ζῶντας καὶ νεκρούς καὶ τὴν
NAS: the living and the dead, and by His appearing
KJV: the quick and the dead at his
INT: living and dead and who

And THOSE WHO NEVER DIE CAN'T BE THE DEAD IN CHRIST THEY ARE THE LIVING IN CHRIST WHO HAVE DEAD FLESH AND BLOOD BUT NOT DEAD IN ANY OTHER WAY.  


4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

9For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

YOU DO REALIZE THAT BOTH THE JUST AND THE UNJUST DEAD ARE RAISED UP CORRECT?  

AND AT THE END OF THE MILLENNIUM SOME OF THOSE 'DEAD' WILL STAND AT THE GWTJ AND SOME OF THOSE DEAD WILL COME TO 'LIFE' BY GETTING THEIR NAMES IN THE BOOK OF LIFE RIGHT?   

AND THOSE 

ONCE DEAD WHO WORK TO GET THEIR NAMES IN THE BOOK OF LIFE would 

BE IN CHRIST, RIGHT?????????

 

[transmogrified]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

When Corinth says it is the DEAD that are raised you call them believers JUST BECAUSE they get a body that can only be killed in the lake of fire.  

Believers do not go to the lake of fire...they get a body that is like unto the angels that never dies...it is called immortality, incorruptible body, and a spiritual body..

 

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

NOW YOU SHOW ME WHERE THE LIVING HAVE DECAY BEING RAISED IN GLORY 


AKA ANY VERSE ANYWHERE IN THE ENTIRE BIBLE THAT SPEAKS

 

 

OF DUST

 

BEING 

EITHER 

RE USED
RE FORMED
RE BREATHED INTO by GOD so it has lif
RAISED UP AT ANY TIME 

The two prophets were killed...and their dead bodies lay in the street for 3.5 days...they were corruptible bodies...they were decomposing in the street...they had bodies like you or me...they were mortals like Lazarus who had been in the grave for 4 days and was stinking...Lazarus was like the two prophets...they were in corruptible bodies and subject to death and were killed...they were not in incorruptible bodies or they could have never been killed...they were laying in the street rotting...these were two people that were once alive in mortal bodies...mortal means subject to death...they were killed...their bodies were now two corpses lying the street...their two bodies were

 

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

3498. nekros ►
Strong's Concordance
nekros: dead
Original Word: νεκρός, ά, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: nekros
Phonetic Spelling: (nek-ros')
Definition: dead
Usage: (a) adj: dead, lifeless, subject to death, mortal,

this is a description of what they were...they were:

1) dead...

2) lifeless..

3) subject to death...

4) mortal..

They were nekros...the part of speech was 'Adjective' the transliteration was 'nekros,' the phonetic spelling was : (nek-ros'), the defintion was : 'dead.' the usage was: a) adj: dead, lifeless, subject to death, mortal...'

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I GOT 130 ADJ   HOW MANY NOUNS DO YOU HAVE?

 

I only have one adjective you posted...it was 'nekros' and the definition was

part of speech...'adjective'...

the transliteration was 'nekros'...

the phonetic spelling was: (nek-ros') ...

the definition was: 1) dead...

the usage was a) adj. dead, lifeless, subject to death, mortal...'

If you would like to you can post the other 129 adjectives of death...

Revelation 11:8

'And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city...'

Dead bodies - Strongs

Greek 4430 'ptoma'

2) The fallen body of one dead or slain, a corpse, a carcase...

Translated in KJV as

1) dead body

2) Carcase

3) corpse

Strongs definition

from the alternate of 4098

1) a ruin, i.e. (specially) lifeless body (corpse, carrion), dead body, carcase, corpse..

Thayers:

2) the fallen body of one dead or slain, a corpse, carcase

Examples:

The body of John the Baptist..

Mark 6:29

"And when the disciples heard of it, they came and took up his corpse, and laid it in a tomb.'

Rev. 11:8

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city...

Rev. 11:9

And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves...

Dead bodies in this case is a neuter noun, not an adjective as follows:

#4430

ptoma

pronunciation ' pto'mah'

Part of speech: neuter noun

Root word (etymology) : From the alternate of #4098

TDNT Reference; 6: 166,846

In the dictionary the word 'death' as an abstract noun is as follows:

1) "Death' is a state of being dead, it's an abstract noun.

In the dictionary the word 'death' as an adjective is as follows:

1) Approaching death; about to die.

In the phrase that the beast shall make war against them and shall overcome them and 'kill' them, the word 'kill' is a verb denoting an action and not a noun.

In the phrase 'and their dead bodies' shall lie in the street of the great city, the words dead 'bodies' is a noun denoting a thing, and not an action, and not an adjective seeing a noun is defined as:

1) a person, place or thing, or animal in a sentence...

An adjective describes the quality or state of being of nouns...so in the phrase 'their dead bodies' the adjective would be 'dead' and the word 'bodies' would be a noun which describes the state of their bodies, i.e. describing that these bodies were dead.

The only adjective used in the phrase 'their dead bodies' would be one...i.e. their bodies were 'dead.' If you had 129 more adjectives describing the same condition they would only be variations of the same state of being...i.e. they were 'dead.'

Other adjectives could be used but it would not describe their state...i.e. if you said 'their 'living' bodies were lying in the street for 3.5 days it would not be describing their true condition for their bodies were not 'living' their bodies were 'dead.'

So the condition or the state of these bodies were described as being 'dead.' The word 'bodies' is a noun that this condition pertains to...in other words 'their bodies' were dead, it was not 'their brothers body' that was dead, it was 'their bodies' that was dead.

So they died and their dead bodies were laying in the street for three and a half days...the people were rejoicing that they had been killed but did not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

These two prophets were thus killed, meaning they were mortal, and their bodies, or their corpses, or their carcases, were laying in the street.

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE  That is all i am asking is for SOMEONE to show me a 'corpse' being raised up from the dirt and a soul/spirit from heaven possessing it because i can't see it.  

And the spirit of life entered into them...i.e. the spirit of life from God entered into the dead bodies of these two prophets, whose carcases were laying in the street and they arose and stood upon their feet....

Rev. 11:11

And after three and an half days, the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear came upon all them which saw them.'

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE  That is all i am asking is for SOMEONE to show me a 'corpse' being raised up from the dirt and a soul/spirit from heaven possessing it because i can't see it.  

Rev. 11:11

And after three and an half days, the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear came upon all them which saw them.'

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE  That is all i am asking is for SOMEONE to show me a 'corpse' being raised up from the dirt and a soul/spirit from heaven possessing it because i can't see it.  

Rev. 11:11

And after three and an half days, the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear came upon all them which saw them.'

[DeighAnn]

6 hours ago, transmogrified said:

Believers do not go to the lake of fire...they get a body that is like unto the angels that never dies...it is called immortality, incorruptible body, and a spiritual body..

Are 'believers' STILL DEAD at the end of the Millennium? 

WHEN EXACTLY do those who NEVER DIE finally get to quit being 'dead' in your religion???



Do 'believers' get their name in the book of life 'ACCORDING TO THEIR DEEDS'

or by FAITH, and haven't their names been in the book of life FROM THE FOUNDATION? 

 

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne 

and books were opened

And another book was opened which is the [one] of life

AND WERE JUDGED THE DEAD out of the things having been written in the books

ACCORDING TO THE DEEDS OF THEM
 

Are they still DEAD WHEN SITTING UPON THE THRONES?  Are they DEAD while ruling and reigning?  

 

7 hours ago, transmogrified said:

this is a description of what they were...they were:

1) dead...

2) lifeless..

3) subject to death...

4) mortal..

They were nekros...the part of speech was 'Adjective' the transliteration was 'nekros,' the phonetic spelling was : (nek-ros'), the defintion was : 'dead.' the usage was: a) adj: dead, lifeless, subject to death, mortal...'

is that HOW YOU DESCRIBE someone who never dies

or someone who has never come to life??
 

 

7 hours ago, transmogrified said:

The two prophets were killed...and their dead bodies lay in the street for 3.5 days...they were corruptible bodies...they were decomposing in the street...they had bodies like you or me...they were mortals like Lazarus who had been in the grave for 4 days and was stinking...Lazarus was like the two prophets...they were in corruptible bodies and subject to death and were killed...they were not in incorruptible bodies or they could have never been killed...they were laying in the street rotting...these were two people that were once alive in mortal bodies...mortal means subject to death...they were killed...their bodies were now two corpses lying the street...their two bodies were

Don't YOU BELIEVE WHAT JESUS SAID?

 

1Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.

2(It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.)

3Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.

4When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death,


but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.



and yes, THE TWO WITNESSES WERE DEAD IN THE STREET

AND WHAT HAPPENED?  HOW DOES THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD GO?

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.



Are you telling me you think their DECAYING FLESH AND BLOOD BODIES WERE SEEING RISING UP????  

have you forgotten 50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


THE FIRST DEATH, was in full course, that body was going back to dust.  Would you like verses for the body going back to dust also?  Got a few of them too

DID YOU MISS WHY THEY WERE SEEN? 


THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS UPON THEM AND AT THAT POINT NO ONE IS GOING TO NEED 'SPIRITUAL EYES' BECAUSE change is a coming to everyone on the earth, like it or not.  EVERYONE is going to be changed, in one way or another.  and they are running for the mountains to cover them up because they know it's to late...you have been marked or you have endured.

 

11And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

 

THE 7th trump is about to blow...there won't be 2 REALMS much longer. 

REMEMEBER the MYSTERY?  not ALL are going to die

BUT ALL ARE GOING TO BE CHANGED. 




I understand you have your 'survivors' and stuff and you don't think THE WHOLE would will worship the beast, and even thought the time is shortened or else no flesh would be saved but for the elects sake it is AND the harvest is of the wheat and tares and the tares are gathered and burned

yet somehow you have TONS of people who seem to SURVIVE  all that

plus when Christ comes

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,
and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10When He shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

and

15And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

and the vine of the earth go into the winepress of the wrath of God

and whatever OTHER things we are told

I used to wonder why GOD SAID IT IN SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS, I don't anymore.  
 

7 hours ago, transmogrified said:

from the alternate of 4098

from the alternate? 

 

7 hours ago, transmogrified said:

the usage was a) adj. dead, lifeless, subject to death, mortal...'

AND THAT ISN'T BODY  that isn't dust  that isn't corpse

THAT is an adjective and as an adjective is how it is used.  

THERE is a different word for body  

 

7 hours ago, transmogrified said:

Mark 6:29

"And when the disciples heard of it, they came and took up his corpse, and laid it in a tomb.'

2532 [e]    καὶ
kai    And    Conj
191 [e]    ἀκούσαντες
akousantes    having heard [it],    V-APA-NMP
3588 [e]    οἱ
hoi    the    Art-NMP
3101 [e]    μαθηταὶ
mathētai    disciples    N-NMP
846 [e]    αὐτοῦ
autou    of him    PPro-GM3S
2064 [e]    ἦλθον*
ēlthon    came,    V-AIA-3P
2532 [e]    καὶ
kai    and    Conj
142 [e]    ἦραν
ēran    took up    V-AIA-3P
3588 [e]    τὸ
to    the    Art-ANS
4430 [e]    πτῶμα
ptōma    body    N-ANS
846 [e]    αὐτοῦ
autou    of him,    PPro-GM3S
2532 [e]    καὶ
kai    and    Conj
5087 [e]    ἔθηκαν
ethēkan    laid    V-AIA-3P
846 [e]    αὐτὸ
auto    it    PPro-AN3S
1722 [e]    ἐν
en    in    Prep
3419 [e]    μνημείῳ.
mnēmeiō    [a] tomb.    N-DNS



4430. ptóma ►
Strong's Concordance
ptóma: a fall, hence a misfortune, ruin
Original Word: πτῶμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: ptóma
Phonetic Spelling: (pto'-mah)
Definition: a fall, a misfortune, ruin
Usage: a fall; a carcass, corpse, dead body.

 

Matthew 14:12 N-ANS
GRK: ἦραν τὸ πτῶμα καὶ ἔθαψαν
NAS: and took away the body and buried
INT: took the body and buried

Matthew 24:28 N-NNS
GRK: ᾖ τὸ πτῶμα ἐκεῖ συναχθήσονται
NAS: Wherever the corpse is, there
KJV: For wheresoever the carcase is, there
INT: might be the carcass there will be gathered

Mark 6:29 N-ANS
GRK: ἦραν τὸ πτῶμα αὐτοῦ καὶ
NAS: and took away his body and laid
KJV: took up his corpse, and laid
INT: took up the body of him and

Mark 15:45 N-ANS
GRK: ἐδωρήσατο τὸ πτῶμα τῷ Ἰωσήφ
NAS: he granted the body to Joseph.
INT: he granted the body to Joseph

Revelation 11:8 N-NNS
GRK: καὶ τὸ πτῶμα αὐτῶν ἐπὶ
NAS: And their dead bodies [will lie] in the street
KJV: their dead bodies [shall lie] in
INT: and the bodies of them [will be] on

Revelation 11:9 N-ANS
GRK: ἐθνῶν τὸ πτῶμα αὐτῶν ἡμέρας
NAS: [will] look at their dead bodies
KJV: shall see their dead bodies three days
INT: Gentiles the bodies of them days

Revelation 11:9 N-ANP
GRK: καὶ τὰ πτώματα αὐτῶν οὐκ
NAS: at their dead bodies for three
KJV: suffer their dead bodies to be put in
INT: and the bodies of them not

Strong's Greek 4430
7 Occurrences




NOTICE THAT WORD ISN'T USED WHEN THEY ARE RAISED UP

Strong's    Greek    English    Morphology
2532 [e]    Καὶ
kai    And    Conj
3326 [e]    μετὰ
meta    after    Prep
3588 [e]    τὰς
tas    the    Art-AFP
5140 [e]    τρεῖς
treis    three    Adj-AFP
2250 [e]    ἡμέρας
hēmeras    days    N-AFP
2532 [e]    καὶ
kai    and    Conj
2255 [e]    ἥμισυ
hēmisy    a half,    Adj-ANS
4151 [e]    πνεῦμα
pneuma    [the] spirit    N-NNS
2222 [e]    ζωῆς
zōēs    of life    N-GFS
1537 [e]    ἐκ
ek    from    Prep
3588 [e]    τοῦ
tou    -    Art-GMS
2316 [e]    Θεοῦ
Theou    God    N-GMS
1525 [e]    εἰσῆλθεν
eisēlthen    entered    V-AIA-3S
1722 [e]    ἐν
en    into    Prep
846 [e]    αὐτοῖς,
autois    them,    PPro-DM3P
2532 [e]    καὶ
kai    and    Conj
2476 [e]    ἔστησαν
estēsan    they stood    V-AIA-3P
1909 [e]    ἐπὶ
epi    upon    Prep
3588 [e]    τοὺς
tous    the    Art-AMP
4228 [e]    πόδας
podas    feet    N-AMP
846 [e]    αὐτῶν,
autōn    of them;    PPro-GM3P
2532 [e]    καὶ
kai    and    Conj
5401 [e]    φόβος
phobos    fear    N-NMS
3173 [e]    μέγας
megas    great    Adj-NMS
1968 [e]    ἐπέπεσεν
epepesen    fell    V-AIA-3S
1909 [e]    ἐπὶ
epi    upon    Prep
3588 [e]    τοὺς
tous    those    Art-AMP
2334 [e]    θεωροῦντας
theōrountas    beholding    V-PPA-AMP
846 [e]    αὐτούς.
autous    them.    PPro-AM3P

 

PLEASE TELL ME you are not trying to say that the SPIRIT OF GOD GOES INTO DECAYING SINFUL FLESH AND BLOOD?

SO AGAIN, we are sown NOT THE BODY THAT SHALL BE


WE ARE raised in incorruption, in glory and in power

and if you never die, that takes place on the last day you are in this realm and CONTINUE on in life in the next one

So, would you like to ATTACK ME SOME MORE?  

 

[transmogrified]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

and yes, THE TWO WITNESSES WERE DEAD IN THE STREET

They were dead, but they were not dead but only were sleeping...just like Lazarus...Jesus went to awaken him out of sleep...but yet he said plainly "Lazarus is dead...so he's dead but he's not dead...you play on the court saying he's not dead, Jesus is playing on the court saying both things...He is not dead, but sleeps...then he said plainly Lazarus is dead...

You can't keep saying he never died when Jesus said he was dead...and you can't say he was dead when Jesus said he was only sleeping...so what is it?

Sleeping is the term used to denote the condition of one after he has physically died, in other words, his spirit has left his body...the spirit returned to God who gave it, but it is no longer in the body it once was in.

THAT CONDITION IS CALLED SLEEPING IN JESUS...The body is lying there without the spirit...even the wicked dead are called sleeping, but instead of dying or sleeping in Jesus, they died or are now sleeping in sin. Each will arise in the condition they were in when their spirit left their body. He that is righteous, let him be righteous still, he that is filthy let him be filthy still.

The two prophets died...yes they died, and it can be accurately stated, they never died but they were sleeping, and in the case of the two prophets, they were sleeping in Jesus...this is where it comes in that when he comes with all the saints he will also 'bring those that sleep in Jesus with him...' i.e. the two prophets and all the rest of the saints who were sleeping in Jesus who have been resurrected and given immortal bodies...

What happened to them? The body their spirit once lived in was gone and had returned to the God who gave it to them...and what does that produce? It produces a lifeless corpse that will rot, stink, and return to the dust from whence it came...this also happens to the wicked when they die...their spirit returns to God who gave it and their lifeless corpse will rot, stink and return to the dust from whence it came.

What happened to the two prophets...It said 'The spirit of life from God entered into them and they stood upon their feet...' Standing up again is part of the definition of resurrection...they were laying down lifeless, and now they are standing on their feet...

AT THE POINT THEY STOOD UPON THEIR FEET IS THE SAME POINT THEY RECEIVED THEIR GLORIFIED BODY...AS IT STATES...

THE DEAD WILL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE...THAT IS WHEN MORTALITY PUT ON IMMORTALITY...THE TIME FRAME IS THE END OF THE TRIBULATION..THIS DID NOT HAPPEN TO THEM WHEN THEY DIED...They did not receive a glorified body 3. 5 days earlier...NO...they received when the spirit of God entered into them 3.5 days AFTER THEY HAD DIED i.e. NOT WHEN THEY DIED!!!!

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

PLEASE TELL ME you are not trying to say that the SPIRIT OF GOD GOES INTO DECAYING SINFUL FLESH AND BLOOD?

WE SHALL NOT ALL SLEEP, BUT WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED...MEANING THIS MORTAL BODY WILL BE CHANGED TO IMMORTALITY...

JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE A MORTAL BODY DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE SINFUL...JESUS WAS FLESH AND BLOOD IN ALL MANNER JUST LIKE WE ARE YET WITHOUT SIN...

IF YOU DIE IN JESUS YOU ARE NOT IN SIN EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE IN A MORTAL BODY...IF THERE WAS NO CHANGE FROM MORTAL TO IMMORTALITY HE WOULD NOT HAVE USED THE WORD 'WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED...' CHANGED FROM WHAT? IMMORTALITY TO IMMORTALITY NO NO NO NO...CHANGED FROM MORTALITY TO IMMORTALITY...

The two prophets were flesh and blood just like we are ...mortals subject to death...their dead, mortal, corruptible BODIES, laid in the street rotting...they were mortal until the very spirit of life from God entered them and they were changed at that moment...this is the same moment that ALL will be changed...the 7th trumpet sounded, and although this scripture only shows the two prophets putting on immortality, ALL THE SAINTS FROM ALL AGES PUT ON IMMORTALITY AT THAT VERY SAME MOMENT....why? Because they rose when the last trumpet sounded and thats when Paul said all will be changed...

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

SO AGAIN, we are sown NOT THE BODY THAT SHALL BE

That is the point, EXACTLY...they were not immortal until their mortal put on immortality...and it is not the same body just as you said...why is not the same? Because changed means its not the same...if they were not changed then they would have still been in mortal bodies...but because they were changed it means they put on immortality, which also means they did not have it before and neither does anyone else until the 7th trumpet sounds.

 

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

and if you never die, that takes place on the last day you are in this realm and CONTINUE on in life in the next one

yes of course you have to change what Paul said because you do not agree with how Jesus described the last day, nor do you believe what Paul said that we will all be changed at the last trump...

Here is Paul:

We shall all be changed at the last trump..

Here you are:

You are changed the last day you are in this realm...

 And then you continue to say 'I just agree with exactly what is written and yet some think I am preaching another gospel...'

If you were saying exactly what was written you wouldn't be saying something different than what is written..

We shall all be changed at the last trump IS NOT THE SAME AS SAYING

We shall all be changed on the last day we are alive in this realm...

the last day of each persons life is NOT WHEN THE LAST TRUMPET SOUNDS...THE LAST TRUMPET SOUNDS WHEN JESUS COMES...PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DYING FOR THE PAST 2000 YEARS AND THE TRUMPET HAS NOT YET SOUNDED...THEY DID NOT ALL DIE AT THE LAST TRUMPET...WHY? BECAUSE IT HAS NOT EVEN SOUNDED YET!!!

ABSOLUTELY NOT THE SAME!!!

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

have you forgotten 50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

That is the point of being changed...of course I am not saying they rose up to heaven in a corruptible body...as you said, flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God...but when this corruptible puts on incorruption, it is no longer flesh and blood but immortal.

That is why the scripture explicitly states .'..the dead shall be raised incorruptible...'

[Diaste]

Just a reminder the OP is The 7th Trump is the Last Trump not, whatever is being discussed, I really have no idea.

@DeighAnn

@transmogrified

Thanks.

 

[DeighAnn]

6 hours ago, transmogrified said:

They were dead, but they were not dead but only were sleeping...just like Lazarus...Jesus went to awaken him out of sleep...but yet he said plainly "Lazarus is dead...so he's dead but he's not dead...you play on the court saying he's not dead, Jesus is playing on the court saying both things...He is not dead, but sleeps...then he said plainly Lazarus is dead...

You can't keep saying he never died when Jesus said he was dead...and you can't say he was dead when Jesus said he was only sleeping...so what is it?

How about we just stick to the words of God and leave our own out and see where THEY lead.  THAT is the only way we are going to find agreement.  Let's agree, if it isn't written it isn't discussed.  


Lazarus was not dead.  We agree on that. Lazarus had a sickness NOT unto death but for the GLORY OF GOD.  The 'life from the dead'.  Only Jesus and those he told knew Lazaurs wasn't dead.  Lazarus wasn't RAISED up to heaven but 'resuscitated' back to life on earth.  No BODY change.  


Two witnesses

And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

This says they are dead because they are killed.  This tells us how they are going to be raised up, it will be 'a resurrection of the dead'.  Those who have received the gift of Salvation aren't 'buried'.  They raise up FROM the earth not from UNDER THE EARTH.  Those who are raised up FROM the earth 'never die' because they never go to the place of the dead.  The ONLY death they have is the first death the death of the flesh and blood body.  The resurrection we HOPE to attain to.  The one like Jesus.  He died and rose again, even so them.  What are we told about the resurrection of the dead?  How do they NEVER DIE even though their body dies the common death?

You've read it a BILLION TIMES 

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

BUT YOU READ IT WITH A DIFFERENT SET OF EYES. 

And one of us it reading it WRONG. 



I do know how you are reading it. 


YOU are reading it LIKE YOU ALREADY READ VERSEs 51, 52, 53.  EVERY EXCUSE you are going to use from this point on stems from that ONE STEP OFF THE NARROW PATH.  
making you read everything AS IF IT IS THE LAST DAY of THE 'age', RATHER than the last day of THEIR AGE.  


So let's clear that up. And let's go REAL SLOW SO WE DON'T ADD OR SUBTRACT ANYTHING because of what we believe.  JUST what GODS TRUTH IS.  

 

51Behold, I shew you a mystery;

a secret


We shall not all sleep

NOT EVERYONE IS GOING TO DIE

WHO DOES THE SECRET CONCERN?  EVERYONE WHO IS ALIVE.  The SECRET DOESN'T concern anyone who has already died.   ONLY

THOSE WHO ARE STILL LIVING

So we ask 

what is the secret about those STILL ALIVE AND LIVING?

but we shall all be changed,

ALL THOSE who ARE still alive ARE ALL going to be changed.  

Doesn't matter what our filthy rags may be telling us, ALL GOD has told us is EVERYONE is going to be changed.  

EVERYONE WOULD INCLUDE SINNERS AND SAINTS ALIKE. 


What ISN'T written yet is IF that change will be the same for everyone just IT WILL EFFECT EVERYONE WHO IS STILL LIVING, ALIVE, in flesh and blood bodies.  


52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:

THE WHEN

What do we know about the last trump?  Christ is returning with all the Holy Angels/saint

So, ON THE LAST DAY when Christ returns the two witnesses having been raised up less than an hour ago, heaven opening up


for the trumpet shall sound,

What do we know about what happens when that trump sounds? 

all the kingdoms of the world are becoming His

the birds are about to eat the flesh of ALL MEN, at least all men who have taken the mark of the beast..all those who don't belong to Him because He is coming in In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

WHICH IS ONE WAY 'CHANGE' TAKES PLACE

and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
 

10When He shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day


and we shall be changed.

which the whole would will witness


And one of them main reasons I abhor pre trib doctrine.  HOW DARE it even steal from the GLORY OF GOD.  
 

 

So, back to the two witnesses
Theirs is not going to be a resurrection out from the dead, because they are GODS.  

They are raised up to heaven,  a resurrection of the dead.

What are we told about the resurrection of the dead?  

1. They will go to heaven

30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

2. They will be raise in immortality, GLORY, power

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

3. They will return with Him in HIS ARMY to be a part of His world government
 

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.



 

Edited September 28, 2023 by DeighAnn

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Just a reminder the OP is The 7th Trump is the Last Trump not, whatever is being discussed, I really have no idea.

@DeighAnn

@transmogrified

Thanks.

 

It IS about what takes place at the 7th trump.  
Problem is SO MUCH TAKES PLACE

It is the changing of REALMS and EVERYTHING involved around it.  Since the SCOPE is so wide, if you read my post above you will see IT IS ALL VERY MUCH ABOUT THE 7TH TRUMP

[DeighAnn]

7 hours ago, transmogrified said:

Sleeping is the term used to denote the condition of one after he has physically died, in other words, his spirit has left his body...the spirit returned to God who gave it, but it is no longer in the body it once was in.

The condition or the action?   


We need to get our NEVER DIE and our DEAD figured out first 

NEVER DIE -COMMON DEATH of the flesh and blood body ONLY, the only 'taste' of death is the going from one to the other, 

 raised up to heaven NOT SLEEPING NOT WAITING but raised up AT THAT TIME, in your spiritual body, in glory and in power

FOLLOWING Him to go be where He is.  NEVER DIE as in never go to the place of the dead, never descend into hell, NEVER WAIT FOR HIS RETURN for a BODY, 

GO TO HEAVEN AS YOURSELF just in your heavenly body  NEVER DIE





DEAD  -  COMMON DEATH OF THE FLESH BODY.  Descend to the place of the dead in your spiritual body WAIT for the return of Christ to be raised up OUT FROM THE DEAD

BUT  WHEN RAISED UP your spiritual body HAS SEEN CORRUPTION,EVEN THOUGH it is IMPERISHABLE (except TO the LOF) it is STILL MORTAL, none the less spiritual as the REALM you are raised up in is the spiritual realm and so not being raised up in immortality because THE 2ND DEATH still looms in your future.  






 

Edited September 28, 2023 by DeighAnn

[DeighAnn]

7 hours ago, transmogrified said:

The two prophets were flesh and blood just like we are ...mortals subject to death...their dead, mortal, corruptible BODIES, laid in the street rotting...they were mortal until the very spirit of life from God entered them and they were changed at that moment...this is the same moment that ALL will be changed...the 7th trumpet sounded, and although this scripture only shows the two prophets putting on immortality, ALL THE SAINTS FROM ALL AGES PUT ON IMMORTALITY AT THAT VERY SAME MOMENT....why? Because they rose when the last trumpet sounded and thats when Paul said all will be changed..

Our SOUL, spiritual body/soul/spirit/being

doesn't stay in THIS body once the blood has quit pumping. 

some of us are as the 'angels in heaven' while others are in bondage in hell.  Just because we currently CAN'T SEE what is going on, doesn't stop it from being just as real....
 

11And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep.

12And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

13And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;

14And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

15And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

16And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the LORD is in this place; and I knew it not.

  

NO, we RELOCATE to the next realm, in the next body.  Rich man was buried, Lazarus had angels bring him to the bosom of Abraham

They are both STILL LIVING.  One is living in heaven and on the other side of the gulf the other one is living in hell.   One is considered to be ALIVE while the other is considered to be DEAD.  

One never dies and the 2nd death is never in their future, and they never go to hell and never stand at the GWTJ, name in the book by faith from foundation

THE other dies not just the first death but goes to the place of the dead and maybe the LOF if don't get name in book ACCORDING TO DEEDS, NOT FAITH



SO, when Christ returns THE DEAD rise, they MAY BE FOUND in the book of life, IN CHRIST at the GWTJ, but till then they are a part of THE DEAD that had to WAIT for His return to be resurrected out from the dead

while THE LIVING were raised up long ago.  



no one can kill the soul but GOD.  

28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.