teddyv Posted February 15 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,265 Content Per Day: 2.91 Reputation: 2,302 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/03/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 15 4 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: Did you know that fractions as we use them today didn't exist in Europe until the 17th century? In fact, at first, fractions weren't even thought of as numbers in their own right at all, just a way of comparing whole numbers with each other. source Can you tell me to the thousandth of an inch the length of a cubit? No? Is it because you're an ignorant bronze aged shepherd, or because a cubit is not a precise instrument of measurement by today's standards? The ancient Babylonians calculated the area of a circle by taking 3 times the square of its radius, which gave a value of pi = 3. One Babylonian tablet (ca. 1900–1680 BC) indicates a value of 3.125 for π, which is a closer approximation. source You have to do better than to use mathematics that were not invented until centuries later. I've seen this same argument from atheists dozens of times. The Bible directly states that pi is 3. It's right there in the instructions for the Sea. It's about as prose as language gets. Since it was given a diameter, even if fractions were unknown, the circumference should be 31 cubits - that's an integer, not a fraction. The point is, you don't read the Bible literal like you claim to do (and demand everyone else should), or you make allowances for all sorts of things. No, you read as a modern 20th-21st century person does. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farouk Posted February 15 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,558 Content Per Day: 12.19 Reputation: 3,348 Days Won: 31 Joined: 11/18/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted February 15 5 hours ago, Renskedejonge said: It could be that the simplest reading is true because At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. Matthew 11:25 NKJV https://bible.com/bible/114/mat.11.25.NKJV Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their own craftiness”; and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.” I Corinthians 3:18-20 NKJV https://bible.com/bible/114/1co.3.18-20.NKJV @Renskedejonge I think that Hebrews 11.3 is clear about the faith basis of Creation: "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." One can hold to a lot of scientific facts about Creation science, and yet forget that it's not argument but faith that convinces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Free Posted February 15 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 88 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 290 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 15 5 hours ago, Renskedejonge said: It could be that the simplest reading is true because Yes, God is often reasoning with us a children. One day we will be an adult, putting away childish things. Yet, that is the heart of parables, many prophecies and some Psalms, the mature content is hidden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Free Posted February 15 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 88 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 290 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 15 5 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: Meditate on the words of God to learn the deeper meaning, but have the comprehension to understand that when Jesus was nailed to the cross it doesn't mean He was having a pizza party at the beach. Words have meaning. They are written for a purpose. I absolutely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RdJ Posted February 15 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,148 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 649 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/11/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/25/1970 Share Posted February 15 22 minutes ago, Scott Free said: Yes, God is often reasoning with us a children. One day we will be an adult, putting away childish things. Yet, that is the heart of parables, many prophecies and some Psalms, the mature content is hidden. Yes but this may not be mature content. If you look at those mountains they absolutely look like there was water that went down. There were already mountains though before the flood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Free Posted February 15 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 88 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 290 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 15 Just now, Renskedejonge said: Yes but this may not be mature content. If you look at those mountains they absolutely look like there was water that went down. There were already mountains though before the flood. I agree. There are many signs pointing to the catastrophe that triggered the flood. It is called the Young Dryas extinction event. Thou, their research is always limited in scope and a broad study of many researchers is needed to get a partial picture of the totality of what happened. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV_Wizard Posted February 16 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 773 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 327 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/05/1962 Share Posted February 16 12 hours ago, The Barbarian said: You were badly misled here: http://physicsinsights.org/pi_from_pythagoras-1.html Once again, you ignore what is said and resort to a strawman argument. Fibonacci introduced the concept of fractions to Italy in 1202AD, but fractions weren't used in Europe before Simon Stevin introduced then in 1585 AD in a booklet he called The Art of Tenths. The book of kings is thought to have been completed before 550 BC, which means the scrolls were complete before Pythagoras was born. More deception from you with the goal of discrediting the Bible. Too bad for you it fails. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV_Wizard Posted February 16 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 773 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 327 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/05/1962 Share Posted February 16 10 hours ago, teddyv said: The Bible directly states that pi is 3. Please explain to us why a book written in 55BC would have mathematical formulas not in use until the 16th century AD. Fractions as a mathematical expression simply did not exist at the time. However, if you need a reason to disbelieve the word of God, then any excuse is as good as any other. Here's a philosophical question for you. When Noah built the ark, did he use a chainsaw and a log skitter? How many boxes of nails did he buy from Home Depot? Seriously, the ignorance of your post is profound. It's also a blatant lie. The Bible never uses the word pi. According to Petr Beckmann's A History of Pi, the Greek letter π was first used for this purpose by William Jones in 1706, probably as an abbreviation of periphery, and became standard mathematical notation roughly 30 years later. source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted February 16 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,074 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 970 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16 1 hour ago, RV_Wizard said: Once again, you ignore what is said and resort to a strawman argument. Fibonacci introduced the concept of fractions to Italy in 1202AD, but fractions weren't used in Europe before Simon Stevin introduced then in 1585 AD in a booklet he called The Art of Tenths. Italy is in Europe. Go take a look at a map. For that matter, Greece is in Europe. But Pythagoras had moved to Italy to found his school before discovering that the ratio of the circumference of a circle to the radius is an irrational number. He did come up with a pretty good geometric method for approximating the number. In fact, such numbers are called "irrational", because they cannot be expressed as the ratio of two whole numbers. (like 2/3) Which are fractions, even if he didn't call them that. Fractions were also used in ancient Rome, but again, as ratios, not as actual numbers. The Indians first wrote out fractions as actual numbers rather than ratios, about 500 AD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeyondET Posted February 16 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,869 Content Per Day: 1.22 Reputation: 816 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/29/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/1968 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 14 hours ago, Renskedejonge said: Yes but this may not be mature content. If you look at those mountains they absolutely look like there was water that went down. There were already mountains though before the flood. Indeed the power of water because of gravity, the whole Colorado plateau is tilted around 15 degrees. The river is 277 miles long yet it descends 2,000 feet in elevation along the way, 8 feet per mile carving a path down to sea level. The slopes are collapsed banks over time. Edited February 16 by BeyondET 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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