Did the 'dead' rise before Christ did?

[Buzzard3]

On 9/18/2023 at 3:53 PM, DeighAnn said:

29Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

31But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Wasn't Jesus telling us 'the dead' were already being resurrected here?

No, I don’t think so.  I think Jesus is saying (a) the dead will be resurrected and (b) the soul survives death of the body (v.32). 

Jesus is not saying Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are already resurrected, but is saying they are nevertheless "living", in the sense that their souls are alive.

[FreeGrace]

On 9/18/2023 at 1:53 AM, DeighAnn said:

29Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

31But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Wasn't Jesus telling us 'the dead' were already being resurrected here?

No, Jesus wasn't telling us that.  The Bible says that there is one (singular) resurrection of the saved, as well as one (singular) resurrection of the unsaved.

Dan 12:2 -  Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:24 -  and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Acts 24:15 -  and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Blue refers to the saved.  Red refers to the unsaved.  

That said, now we look to WHEN the singular resurrection of the saved will occur.

1 Cor 15:23 -  But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Blue words refer to the Second Advent (see Heb 9:28).  Green words refer to every saved person from Adam forward.  

Heb 9:28 - so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Red words refer to the Second Advent, clearly.

Blue words refer to the culmination of every believer in humanity;  the resurrection and glorification of their bodies.

Every citation of a dead person returning to life before Jesus did was a resuscitation of their mortal physical body.  Otherwise, 1 Cor 15:23 CANNOT BE TRUE.  But it is true.

Also, we know from the text regarding Lazarus, who Jesus raised from the dead, he was still mortal since the Jews were planning to kill him as well.

John 12:9 Meanwhile a large crowd of Jews found out that Jesus was there and came, not only because of him but also to see Lazarus, whom he had raised from the dead. 10 So the chief priests made plans to kill Lazarus as well,

One final point about resurrection.  The resurrection of the saved will be 1,000 years BEFORE the resurrection of the unsaved.

Rev 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

v.4 shows that those beheaded were believers and "came to life", which is a direct reference to THE resurrection of all the saved.  See above.

The red words states plainly that the resurrection of the unsaved will be 1,000 years after the resurrection of the saved.  The blue words clearly identify the resurrection of the saved as the "first resurrection" of the 2 that the 3 verses above mention.

Even the 2 witnesses who are killed and come back to life will NOT receive a resurrection body as they are called home to heaven.  They will be coming back with Jesus and ALL the rest of the saints who have already died, and all of them will come back with Jesus at the Second Advent for their resurrection.

[Shilohsfoal]

23 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 

Jesus said more than once that he was raised from the place of the dead. Jesus said that he will go to the heart of the earth for three days and he will be  raised from that place in three days.

Jesus said that I have the keys of Death and Hades and I have the Key of David. And he said that he was raised from the dead. 

He said that he will descent to the very low parts of the earth and then in three days he will be raised from the dead. 

And then he said: all authority has been given to me everywhere, in Heaven and in earth and in all things under the earth.

God has sited Jesus on his Throne on his right side and declared him Christ and Lord for all to see.  JESUS REIGNS FOREVER MORE, WITHOUT END...that what the Heavens declared...your rulership and your Kingdom will never end.

God has given all things to Jesus. The Heavenly Father judges no one, he has given the judgment to his Son Jesus Christ. 

God showed Stephen the Heavenly Vision and he said: God has made Jesus the one you Crusified Christ and Lord. 

(Take notice that I said that Jesus said: when I say that Jesus said: Jesus has said something and it is written in the Bible you are reading. Unless you have miss it.)

Jesus said it many times before he died on the Cross and after the resurrection that he was raised from the place of the dead on the third day. 

it is all in the bible, you do not have to read anyone's else's books. 

Ecclesiastes was not a spokesman of God and of his Christ...he never mentioned the need for the forgiveness of sins...he did not partake in the Celebrations of the Temple and the Atonements made by the High Priest in the most Holy Place...

He did not preach obedience to the book of Leviticus...in the Law of God. It sounds as if he was a politheist because he never distinguish faith only in the Lord God Almighty the God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob.   

Jesus Christ and the disciples never endorse him and never mention his name...He was not from God. And he did not speak in his name.  

Anyone who says that the body does not return to earth and stays there from dust to dust does not speak in the name of God...this is why Jesus had to hurry up and be raised from the dead before his body see corruption...

He needed his body to show the marks of his wounds because he identified himself from those marks to his disciples. 

If Jesus was dead,then he wasn't having a party somewhere.He in in the ground where people are put after they die.

My mother died a few months ago.She went to the place of the dead.Its a nice graveyard where people go after they die.They dug into the ground a made a grave and placed her in the grave.Then covered her up.Thats what happens when someone dies.Jesus died and was placed in a tomb where people go after they die Then the tomb was sealed with a stone.Jesus stayed n that tomb for three days and on the third day he arose from the dead and became alive again.

He did not go to some place far away from the tomb.He was in the tomb.Dead.He was not having a party or talking to anyone.He did not ascend into heaven during that time.He was dead in a tomb.That tomb was specifically built for the dead.

 

As for the body of Christ which is the church.It will be raised on the third day.Not the first.

Hosea 6

² After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

³ Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Your closest friendnt]

9 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

If Jesus was dead,then he wasn't having a party somewhere.He in in the ground where people are put after they die.

My mother died a few months ago.She went to the place of the dead.Its a nice graveyard where people go after they die.They dug into the ground a made a grave and placed her in the grave.Then covered her up.Thats what happens when someone dies.Jesus died and was placed in a tomb where people go after they die Then the tomb was sealed with a stone.Jesus stayed n that tomb for three days and on the third day he arose from the dead and became alive again.

He did not go to some place far away from the tomb.He was in the tomb.Dead.He was not having a party or talking to anyone.He did not ascend into heaven during that time.He was dead in a tomb.That tomb was specifically built for the dead.

 

 

A little bit scripture?

[Shilohsfoal]

24 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

A little bit scripture?

⁵⁷ When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:

⁵⁸ He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.

⁵⁹ And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,

⁶⁰ And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.

⁶¹ And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.

⁶² Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,

 

⁶³ Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

⁶⁴ Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.

⁶⁵ Pilate said unto them, Ye have a watch: go your way, make it as sure as ye can.

⁶⁶ So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch.

28 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

² And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

³ His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:

⁴ And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.

⁵ And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.

⁶ He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

 

⁷ And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.

⁸ And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.

⁹ And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

¹⁰ Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Buzzard3 said:

No, I don’t think so.  I think Jesus is saying (a) the dead will be resurrected and (b) the soul survives death of the body (v.32). 

Jesus is not saying Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are already resurrected, but is saying they are nevertheless "living", in the sense that their souls are alive.

Interesting very interesting. 

When Jesus said that not only him but the people to whom he was talking to understood that Jesus made reference to the events at the burning bush between God and Moses. 

Exodus 3:6 

I am the God of your father,* he continued, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.

They all knew what God told Abraham that at the time of his death that he will not be gathered to him.. (which it was impossible for anyone after their death to be gathered to him. Because no one had a Heavenly Inheritance. 

God told Abraham that he has given him an Inheritance for him and his chosen children the people of God he said to him that you will be gathered to your ancestors.

To Issac also said the same thing and to Jacob also God repeat the same thing...Later he repeat the same thing to others and he also repeated the same thing to David. 

God was telling them that someone will come that will bring with him a new Inheritance for the people of God but they are not the ones and that he has not yet come.

And then God began to talk about the Messiah who will bring something new right after the Law was given and the Covenant of Sinai. 

Telling them that the Law would not change the Inheritance of his people that they still will be gathered to their Father Abraham. 

Jesus made something clear that the people of God they were gathered to Abraham in some place in the earth but seperated from the rest of the dead of the world. 

And Jesus said that the Lord God Almighty was still their God and they were still his people that he never stopped being their God..that they were alive to him even though they had died physically. 

That's where Abraham was welcoming his children after their death and the Jews and the Pharisees knew that.  The Israelites knew that from the beginning. 

This is while the Sinai Covenant was still in effect we need to keep this in mind.

This what also Jesus said that the Lord God Almighty he is not the God of the Dead. 

Jesus mentioned that there is a God of the dead but he is not reigning over Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and his chosen people after them.

That the Lord God Almighty is their God and they are alive to him after their Physical death.  

 

 

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

So you believe the time of tribulation ,the likes the world has never seen was in 27 ad.And at that time,All of Daniel people who names are written in the lambs book of life were delivered at that time.

Daniel 12:1

And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

 

Since all of Daniels people who's name are written were delivered in 27 ad,then there is none left to be delivered.Correct?

Still waiting for you to show it is of the 2nd advent and not the first.  Chapter 12 following 11 doesn't do that.  Once you answer, I will get back to answering your questions.   

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Buzzard3 said:

No, I don’t think so.  I think Jesus is saying (a) the dead will be resurrected and (b) the soul survives death of the body (v.32). 

Jesus is not saying Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are already resurrected, but is saying they are nevertheless "living", in the sense that their souls are alive.

What is a soul?  A BODY and breath.  We have two bodies.  Why would we quit being souls?  

What was God saying to Moses?  They are dead but I am still their God?  

If so then why did He say He was NOT the God of the dead?  


Mount of transfiguration, was Jesus just ACTING like He was speaking to them?

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

So you believe the time of tribulation ,the likes the world has never seen was in 27 ad.And at that time,All of Daniel people who names are written in the lambs book of life were delivered at that time.

Did you read my post?  

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

No,those who were killed are resurected in the first resurection.They were killed and they died.Then they are resurected and live. They are not trying to get their names written in the lambs book of life.Their names are already written and they do not die a second death.They live forever.

 

These people were dead and buried.Then they are resurected from the dead and given life.

 

⁴ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

⁵ But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

⁶ Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

You ASSIGN 1st resurrection a TIME. Yet, ANYONE on whom the 2nd death hath no power would be of the 1st resurrection. 

How does every man resurrect in his own order if they all resurrect at the same time?   How is Christ the first fruits of them that slept but not the first fruits of them who went to sleep after?   How is it the living don't prevent the dead if the dead don't rise until the living do?   

Edited September 21, 2023 by DeighAnn