Are you sure that you shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven?

[Buzzard3]

On 10/14/2023 at 3:55 PM, Retrobyter said:

Now, the "love OF the God" is "God's LOVE!" And, he is saying "truly in him God's love has been matured." It's not about "our love FOR God."

So you're saying all those Bibles that translate it as "love for God" are wrong.  Fascinating.

[AdHoc]

11 hours ago, Buzzard3 said:

In short, it says those who don't keep Christ's commandments are not saved.

I observe two things.
1. the text you quoted has nothing to do with salvation. The word "saved" is neither mentioned nor implied
2. among the commandments of the Lord is

10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another; 

32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted ...

Reading your postings does not transmit these commandments - rather the opposite. By your own interpretation you are not saved. So maybe you should at least consider what scripture says and not make it say what it does not. Scripture says that Israel was saved by the blood of the Lamb in Egypt. It says that Israel were saved by the Red Sea from Pharaoh's army. It says that that they ate angels food and drank from that following Rock - all items of salvation from the wilderness' hunger and thirst. Then, all the men of war, save two, fell short of their inheritance and that their carcasses fell in the wilderness.

This failure to enter the Good Land does not undo the work of the Lamb, the Red Sea, the Tree at Mara, the Manna, the smitten Rock, and it by no means means that they stopped being Israel - seed of Abraham. Your technique to change scripture into something it does not say, will not change the fact that a son, who is a son by an act of God, cannot be un-born. If you want to show that a man who has been born again and who has the eternal life of God by Christ's Work, can have them annulled by his own puny works, then produce scripture that says so. If you produce scripture that says anything else, it says what it says - not what you would like it to say.

Despite your version of the verse above, and despite your apparent disdain for your fellow slaves, I believe that you are still a Christian in good standing. Galatians 5:17 reads; 

 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

The Christian lives in his flesh. This battle between the demands of the Spirit in the human spirit and the flesh never ends. I failed yesterday and I will fail today. Scripture says that the flesh wins. But there is no talk of God giving up on the failed Christian. There might be consequences, or stripes or castigation. Hebrews 12 says so. But the man doesn't suddenly stop being a Christian. The Church at Corinth was full of the flesh, but are they at any time declared to be infidels? No! 16:20 declares them "brothers" to other Christians.

You can only be a brother if you have the same Father.

[Vine Abider]

5 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Reading your postings does not transmit these commandments - rather the opposite. By your own interpretation you are not saved. So maybe you should at least consider what scripture says and not make it say what it does not. Scripture says that Israel was saved by the blood of the Lamb in Egypt. It says that Israel were saved by the Red Sea from Pharaoh's army. It says that that they ate angels food and drank from that following Rock - all items of salvation from the wilderness' hunger and thirst. Then, all the men of war, save two, fell short of their inheritance and that their carcasses fell in the wilderness.

 

 

This is a great example of our salvation!  As is stated in scripture, these were given as an example of us . . . an outward example which typifies the inner spiritual life under the new covenant.  They were saved from the death angel by eating the lamb and putting its blood on the door posts (a picture of our initial salvation), and then they were saved out of Egypt (a picture of the world).

And when they displayed an evil heart of unbelief, they were not allowed into the good land at that point and were disciplined in the wilderness.  After receiving discipline, eventually the children of Israel entered into the good land. They were an example of the Christian passing through these different phases of sanctification/salvation, but God was always faithful and didn't fail to get them to their promised destination.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Vine Abider
Clarity

[Buzzard3]

On 10/14/2023 at 3:55 PM, Retrobyter said:

There's a BIG difference between "keeping not His commandments" and "disobeying His commandments."

What's the difference?

[Buzzard3]

On 10/14/2023 at 3:55 PM, Retrobyter said:

However, you need to understand that we don't keep these laws to be justified by God; we keep these laws BECAUSE we are justified by God!

 I think James 2 refutes your argument.  

Bearing in mind that keeping those commandments/laws is obedience, aka works, James 2:21-22 says Abraham was "justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar ... You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works"  (v.21-22).  

That passage plainly says Abraham was justified by his works (obedience) ... whereas you seem to be saying a believer is not justified by works.

That passage also says faith is "active along with" works ... whereas you seem to be saying that faith and works operate separately.  

That passage also says faith is not completed without works[/b].  In other words, faith needs works.  You seem to think faith and works are two separate things.

That's contrary to what you're saying - you're trying to separate works from faith.  

However, you need to understand that we don't keep these laws to be justified by God; we keep these laws BECAUSE we are justified by God!

I think James 2:24 says otherwise - "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone".

[Buzzard3]

On 10/14/2023 at 3:55 PM, Retrobyter said:

Now, the "love OF the God" is "God's LOVE!" And, he is saying "truly in him God's love has been matured." It's not about "our love FOR God."

Some translations of 1John 2:5 say "love for God", whereas others say "love of God".   

The orthodox position is that it means a believer's love for God - a position supported by John 14:15-21,  in which Jesus says,

If you love me, you will keep my commandments ...

He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me".

[Buzzard3]

14 hours ago, AdHoc said:

the text you quoted has nothing to do with salvation. The word "saved" is neither mentioned nor implied

 

The text (1John 2:3-6) says a believer who doesn't "keep his [Christ's] commandments" ...

(a) does not "know" Christ,

(b) is a "liar", 

(c) the "truth is not in him", 

(d) is not "in him" (not "in" Christ),

(e) does not abide in Christ.

Does that sound like a believer who's on the road to salvation?  It doesn't to me.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Buzzard3

[Buzzard3]

16 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 If you want to show that a man who has been born again and who has the eternal life of God by Christ's Work, can have them annulled by his own puny works

It's impossible for anyone to 

annul the justification provided by Jesus' death on the Cross, because that justification was 100% unconditional and applies to everyone who has lived or will ever live.  The Cross made it possible for everyone to be saved.

 

However, not everyone will be saved, because unlike the unconditional justification provided by the Cross, the justification required for salvation is conditional for every individual ... on faith and works (James 2:24).

 

 

Quote

puny works

 

 Do you understand that "works" refers to obedience, aka righteousness, aka holiness? 

  ... and that God has always demanded obedience from his children - even from Adam and Eve, before the Fall?

... and that Christians are called to holiness and obedience? (1Peter 1:14-17)

 

Quote

If you want to show that a man who has been born again and who has the eternal life of God by Christ's Work, can have them annulled by his own puny works, then produce scripture that says so.

There are several Scriptures that shows it's possible for a believer's sins to ruin his hope of salvation.  For example ...

 

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God." (1Cor 6:9-10)

 

"Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."  (Gal 5:19-21)

 

"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him."  (John 3:36)

 

"Strive for ... the holiness without which no one will see the Lord."  (Heb 12:14)

 

"For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.  For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God.  But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned."  (Heb 6:4-8)

 

"As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, but as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in all your conduct;  since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”  And if you invoke as Father him who judges each one impartially according to his deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile (1Peter 1:14-17).

 

"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed ... work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"  (Phil 2:12)

 

"And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He who says “I know him” but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps his word, in him truly love for God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him:  he who says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked".  (1John 2:3-6)

 

Quote

a man who has been born again and who has the eternal life of God by Christ's Work

No one has eternal life until they die, are judged by Christ and then granted admittance to Heaven.  Until then, we have the conditional promise and the hope of eternal life.  (Did you know that salvation is described as a "hope" in at least twenty NT verses?)

 

Did you know that being "born again" refers to baptism?  (John 3:5)

Edited October 18, 2023 by Buzzard3

[Who me]

On 10/5/2023 at 5:10 AM, Susan Miller said:

Today one of my Christian friends told me that no matter what he does, Lord Jesus will forgive his sin, since he has accepted Lord Jesus as savior, and finally he shall enter into God's kingdom. 

But I remember that our Lord Jesus said: “Not everyone that said to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of My Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 7:21).We can see from this that entering the kingdom of heaven is not a simple matter, not as long as we believe in the Lord we can enter the kingdom of heaven, we must strive to pursue. What's your opinion, my friends？

There is assurance of salvation, but that is not licence to sin.

 

May I suggest you ask your friend more about what he means by what he said and how it affects his behaviour. 

 

Look at John14:²³ Jesus replied, ‘Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. ²⁴ Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

there is a condition to having both Jesus and the Father's love and that is obedience because of love for them.

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

On 10/4/2023 at 10:10 PM, Susan Miller said:

Today one of my Christian friends told me that no matter what he does, Lord Jesus will forgive his sin, since he has accepted Lord Jesus as savior, and finally he shall enter into God's kingdom. 

But I remember that our Lord Jesus said: “Not everyone that said to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of My Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 7:21).We can see from this that entering the kingdom of heaven is not a simple matter, not as long as we believe in the Lord we can enter the kingdom of heaven, we must strive to pursue. What's your opinion, my friends？

I know that I will be in Heaven no matter what because that's what Scripture says. Not only does Jesus promise NOTHING can take us out of his hand, but he also promises to COMPLETE the work he started in us. Romans 10:9-11 tells us exactly how to be saved. The passage you mention in Matthew 7 does not indicate a loss of salvation. If you notice the wording, it says Jesus NEVER KNEW them. If they had lost salvation, Jesus would have known them previously. These were people who went through the motions of being a Christian, but they were trusting in their works for their salvation, not in Jesus.