Are you sure that you shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven?

[Retrobyter]

15 minutes ago, Buzzard3 said:

You misunderstand what "law" and  "works of the law" means in those verses.  Paul is not referring to all law and all works, but the ritual/ceremonial laws of Moses that Christ did away with.  The moral laws of Moses remain, such as loving your neighbour (see Romans 13:8-10).

 

James 2:21 says Abraham was "justified by works".  Please explain.

Shalom, Buzzard3.

Nope. Sorry, but you can't just pick and choose which laws are laws! Paul also said,

Romans 2:1-16 (KJV)

1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest DOEST THE SAME THINGS. 2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, THESE, HAVING NOT THE LAW, ARE A LAW UNTO THEMSELVES: 15 Which shew THE WORK OF THE LAW WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, THEIR CONSCIENCE ALSO BEARING WITNESS, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

But, in all this, it is important to remember that JUSTIFICATION BY GOD COMES FIRST!

Regarding James 2:21, it's always best to go back to the Greek and see what is going on...

First, though, let's define what "to justify" means: An English dictionary says,

"justify | ˈjəstəˌfī | 

verb (justifies, justifying, justified) [with object]

 1 show or prove to be right or reasonable: the person appointed has fully justified our confidence.
 • be a good reason for: the situation was grave enough to justify further investigation.

 2 Theology declare or make righteous in the sight of God: one of the elect, justified by faith.

 3 Printing adjust (a line of type or piece of text) so that the print fills a space evenly or forms a straight edge at one or both margins: in most European languages you justify text by adding space between letters and words."

In the Greek of James 2:21, the word is "ἐδικαιώθη," the aorist tense, indicative mood, passive voice, with the third-person, singular ending, of the listed word,

1344 dikaio-oo (dikaioó) δικαιόω (dik-ah-yo'-o). From dikaios; to render (i.e. Show or regard as) just or innocent:
-- free, justify(-ier), be righteous.

But, one must NOT assume that the subject is always "being rendered, shown, or regarded as just or innocent" by the same person! WHO is being the one justifying in each incident? This is why I stress that "justification" must have the words "by God" included, for it to refer to one's standing with God! One could be "justifying himself or herself!"

However, there's one other possibility: Being justified BY OTHERS. That doesn't mean that "his or her standing with GOD" is improved by such a justification, but how does it look in the eyes of ANOTHER PERSON? God DECLARES a person "justified," but OTHERS must judge a person by his or her actions!

More later...

[jeremiah1five]

On 10/4/2023 at 10:10 PM, Susan Miller said:

Today one of my Christian friends told me that no matter what he does, Lord Jesus will forgive his sin, since he has accepted Lord Jesus as savior, and finally he shall enter into God's kingdom. 

First, it's not "will" forgive [his] sin, but "has" forgiven [his] sin. All sin of God's elect has been paid for on the cross of Christ. Atonement is "finished," Jesus said.

Second, when someone tells me "[I] accepted the Lord Jesus as Savior" I hold the truth of their conversion suspect. We are all in bondage to sin and our choice has already been made. We love our sin, we love darkness. That bondage before being born-again is real. I don't hold they didn't say it, but that the actuality of the event/conversion is suspect. We don't choose Him, He chooses us. Here's the Scripture to support my statements:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.  Rom. 3:11.

16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. Jn 15:16.

And also, from Jesus:

19 And this is the condemnation, that light [CHRIST] is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light [CHRIST], because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light [CHRIST], neither cometh to the light [CHRIST], lest his deeds should be reproved.  Jn 3:19–20.

Third, there are two "kingdoms." Doctrinally speaking, there is the kingdom of God which is Christ Himself, and there is the kingdom of heaven which is particular to the Jews for they have been promised this by God. The body of Christ has not this promise.

On 10/4/2023 at 10:10 PM, Susan Miller said:

But I remember that our Lord Jesus said: “Not everyone that said to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of My Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 7:21).We can see from this that entering the kingdom of heaven is not a simple matter, not as long as we believe in the Lord we can enter the kingdom of heaven, we must strive to pursue. What's your opinion, my friends？

I think the above answers these statements here.

Well, that's my opinion.

[FJK]

@jeremiah1five, In John 15:16 who was Jesus specifically speaking to and which Jewish custom(s) or thinking at the time he said it would shed additional light on its meaning?

[Buzzard3]

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Nope. Sorry, but you can't just pick and choose which laws are laws!

Jesus said he did not come to abolish the Law.  Hence, Romans 13:8-10 demonstrates that Christians are under the law to love one's neighbour, which comes from the law of Moses (Leviticus 19:18): 

"Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.  The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

Edited October 25, 2023 by Buzzard3

[Michael37]

On 10/24/2023 at 2:11 PM, Buzzard3 said:

Christians are obliged to keep all the law of Moses that remains after the Cross - ie, the moral laws of Moses.

[jeremiah1five]

6 hours ago, FJK said:

@jeremiah1five, In John 15:16 who was Jesus specifically speaking to and which Jewish custom(s) or thinking at the time he said it would shed additional light on its meaning?

The scene was the Passover meal. He was speaking to His disciples. 

 

[Retrobyter]

8 hours ago, Buzzard3 said:

Jesus said he did not come to abolish the Law.  Hence, Romans 13:8-10 demonstrates that Christians are under the law to love one's neighbour, which comes from the law of Moses (Leviticus 19:18): 

"Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.  The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

Shalom, Buzzard3.

You're RIGHT! Christ did not come to abolish the Law but rather to ESTABLISH the Law!

HOWEVER, He also FULFILLED the Law as no one else could do! And, then He died ANYWAY, contrary to the Law! This provided the "puzzle piece" to which our lives could connect!

We had the sin, but did not yet have the death that comes with the sin, yet. That's the NEGATIVE of the POSITIVE that the Christ, the Messiah, provided on the cross!

Then came 2 Corinthians 5:21:

21 For he (God the Father) hath made him (the Son of God) to be SIN for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD in him (in the Son of God).

This fulfills Isaiah 53:

4 Surely he (the Messiah) hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for OUR TRANSGRESSIONS, he was bruised for OUR INIQUITIES: THE CHASTISEMENT OF OUR PEACE WAS UPON HIM; and with HIS stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD HATH LAID ON HIM THE INIQUITY OF US ALL.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: FOR THE TRANSGRESSION OF MY PEOPLE WAS HE STRICKEN.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it PLEASED the LORD to bruise him; HE hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11 He (the LORD God) shall see of the travail of his (the Messiah's) soul (Hebrew: naafshiy = "his-air-breathing-creature"), and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant JUSTIFY many; for HE SHALL BEAR THEIR INIQUITIES.

God looked at His Son on the cross and did not see His Son, but saw "OUR SINS!" ALL OF THEM, which were ALL in the future at the time! When we make His "soul" - His air-breathing creature - a Sacrifice for sin, it completes the puzzle and God no longer sees us as the sinners that we are, but rather He sees HIS SON'S RIGHTEOUSNESS (or rather, HIS OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS IN HIS SON)! We have been DECLARED "RIGHTEOUSNESS." (It's NOT that "we've been declared righteous.") We have thus become a TRIBUTE to His Sacrifice, a TROPHY of His Accomplishment!

From the legal aspect, our sins - which are many - have already been PAID FOR on the cross! ALL OF THEM, past, present, and FUTURE! After all, as I said before, they were ALL in the FUTURE when the Messiah died! When He died on the cross, just before He gave up His last breath, He cried "IT IS FINISHED!" That has been translated into the Greek as "TETELLESTAI! " This word was used in the Roman Empire to mark the debts that had been fully repaid, "PAID IN FULL." This is how we have been JUSTIFIED BY GOD!!!

 

Now, this answers "the SIN question." When one is "BORN AGAIN" into God's family, He is IN Christ - IN the Messiah - and has been given the Comforter - the Ruwach haQodesh 'Elohiym - the Holy Spirit of God - to dwell in us forever! (See John 14:16.) This is how we can have "eternal life!" He now makes His abode with us - IN us - and we together are a "New Creature!" Now, we do good works, not to answer "the sin question" (which has already been answered), but because WE LOVE HIM and WANT TO SERVE HIM! Negatively speaking, we do good works so we're not doing EVIL works which would add to the "sin voucher" that the Messiah has ALREADY PAID! We don't want to add any more "nails to His hands and feet"; we don't want to add any more "thorns in His brow"; we don't want to add another "stripe to His back!"

YES, we should KEEP THE LAW, but not TO BECOME "RIGHT WITH GOD," but BECAUSE we ALREADY ARE "RIGHT WITH GOD!"

[Buzzard3]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Buzzard3.

You're RIGHT! Christ did not come to abolish the Law but rather to ESTABLISH the Law!

HOWEVER, He also FULFILLED the Law as no one else could do! And, then He died ANYWAY, contrary to the Law! This provided the "puzzle piece" to which our lives could connect!

We had the sin, but did not yet have the death that comes with the sin, yet. That's the NEGATIVE of the POSITIVE that the Christ, the Messiah, provided on the cross!

Then came 2 Corinthians 5:21:

21 For he (God the Father) hath made him (the Son of God) to be SIN for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD in him (in the Son of God).

This fulfills Isaiah 53:

4 Surely he (the Messiah) hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for OUR TRANSGRESSIONS, he was bruised for OUR INIQUITIES: THE CHASTISEMENT OF OUR PEACE WAS UPON HIM; and with HIS stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD HATH LAID ON HIM THE INIQUITY OF US ALL.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: FOR THE TRANSGRESSION OF MY PEOPLE WAS HE STRICKEN.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it PLEASED the LORD to bruise him; HE hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11 He (the LORD God) shall see of the travail of his (the Messiah's) soul (Hebrew: naafshiy = "his-air-breathing-creature"), and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant JUSTIFY many; for HE SHALL BEAR THEIR INIQUITIES.

God looked at His Son on the cross and did not see His Son, but saw "OUR SINS!" ALL OF THEM, which were ALL in the future at the time! When we make His "soul" - His air-breathing creature - a Sacrifice for sin, it completes the puzzle and God no longer sees us as the sinners that we are, but rather He sees HIS SON'S RIGHTEOUSNESS (or rather, HIS OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS IN HIS SON)! We have been DECLARED "RIGHTEOUSNESS." (It's NOT that "we've been declared righteous.") We have thus become a TRIBUTE to His Sacrifice, a TROPHY of His Accomplishment!

From the legal aspect, our sins - which are many - have already been PAID FOR on the cross! ALL OF THEM, past, present, and FUTURE! After all, as I said before, they were ALL in the FUTURE when the Messiah died! When He died on the cross, just before He gave up His last breath, He cried "IT IS FINISHED!" That has been translated into the Greek as "TETELLESTAI! " This word was used in the Roman Empire to mark the debts that had been fully repaid, "PAID IN FULL." This is how we have been JUSTIFIED BY GOD!!!

 

Now, this answers "the SIN question." When one is "BORN AGAIN" into God's family, He is IN Christ - IN the Messiah - and has been given the Comforter - the Ruwach haQodesh 'Elohiym - the Holy Spirit of God - to dwell in us forever! (See John 14:16.) This is how we can have "eternal life!" He now makes His abode with us - IN us - and we together are a "New Creature!" Now, we do good works, not to answer "the sin question" (which has already been answered), but because WE LOVE HIM and WANT TO SERVE HIM! Negatively speaking, we do good works so we're not doing EVIL works which would add to the "sin voucher" that the Messiah has ALREADY PAID! We don't want to add any more "nails to His hands and feet"; we don't want to add any more "thorns in His brow"; we don't want to add another "stripe to His back!"

Jesus gave believers this commandment:

“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34).

 That commandment means believers are under a law of works - loving one another - aka, "the law of Christ" (Gal 6:2).

 

Romans 13:8-10 also indicates that Christians are under a law of works  - "he who loves his neighbour has fulfilled the law".

Edited October 26, 2023 by Buzzard3

[Buzzard3]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

YES, we should KEEP THE LAW, but not TO BECOME "RIGHT WITH GOD," but BECAUSE we ALREADY ARE "RIGHT WITH GOD!"

You seem to be saying, faith alone makes you "right with God". 

If that is so, that means a believer can lead a life filled with the worst kinds of evil deeds imaginable (faith without works - James 2:26) and he is still "right with God", does it not?

[Michael37]

16 hours ago, Buzzard3 said:

Your "faith alone" doctrine says a believer can spend his life raping and murdering countless little children, for example, and God will still grant him eternal life.  

Quote from the Worthy Statement of Faith:

"We believe that salvation is a gift received by faith alone, in Messiah alone, and is expressed in the individual’s recognition and repentance of sin, and the acceptance of the risen Messiah as Saviour, Lord and God."