Why radioactive decay dates beyond around 4300 years are invalid

[RV_Wizard]

What part of the evening and the mornings escapes them?  How does a Christian deny the 4th commandment?

[RdJ]

21 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

What part of the evening and the mornings escapes them?  How does a Christian deny the 4th commandment?

There's also GAP theory. They say that there's a gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. I used to believe that, that it was a recreation, because darkness was on the flood, but when they found soft tissue in a dinosaur and still said it was billions of years old I didn't believe it anymore.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Renskedejonge

[Who me]

On 10/17/2023 at 1:56 AM, dad2 said:

Been there done that got the tee shirt. Their arguments have the very same flaw radioactive dating does. That fatal flaw is that they too assume that the current laws of physics have to explain it all.

Then you have not underst5 there arguments.

They are aware that assumptions are made about parent/daughter rations of radio active material, of the problems of contamination, that heat and pressure  can affect chemical processes etc.

May I suggest you look again at there sites.

[dad2]

10 hours ago, Who me said:

Then you have not underst5 there arguments.

They are aware that assumptions are made about parent/daughter rations of radio active material, of the problems of contamination, that heat and pressure  can affect chemical processes etc.

May I suggest you look again at there sites.

Maybe give a few arguments in your own words and we'll see who does not understand what

[teddyv]

On 10/16/2023 at 5:50 PM, dad2 said:

Because the world in the bible record was different after it was created. Men lived 1000 years almost. Trees grew in weeks. From all the changes in created kinds we see in the fossil record we can deduce that adapting happened very fast. When do we know lifespans changed rapidly? The best point to pinpoint it is (not at the flood year) at the time of Babel, when another great change happened...the minds of people on earth were no longer able to process speech the same. One other change at the time of Babel that I deduce is that spirit beings no longer had the same access to the physical world as they used to. Two examples of this is that we no longer see angels marrying women on earth, and also, that it seems likely that a spirit being level at the time of Babel used to exist somewhere up in the sky. That would explain why they thought they could build up to it, and why that now seems ridiculous.

That is pure speculation on your part. There is no Biblical justification of what you are arguing for. I thought you were a Biblical literalist? Why do you add to it?

On 10/16/2023 at 5:50 PM, dad2 said:

 The OP stated that this thread was separate from cosmological issues. I can easily deal with those, but this thread is to focus on earth.

On what justification can you separate the physics operating on Earth from the rest of the universe? There is certainly no Biblical justification. Again, this is speculation, not an adherence to Biblical literalism.

On 10/16/2023 at 5:50 PM, dad2 said:

As to why the oil industry is successful, it discovered the patterns of layers and which ones tended to have the deposits they want! The reasons they think the layers came to exist and the time when they did is another matter altogether. They cannot defend that.

Yes. Based on radiometric dating techniques as well as stratigraphic principles.

[dad2]

19 minutes ago, teddyv said:

That is pure speculation on your part. There is no Biblical justification of what you are arguing for. I thought you were a Biblical literalist? Why do you add to it?

On what justification can you separate the physics operating on Earth from the rest of the universe? There is certainly no Biblical justification. Again, this is speculation, not an adherence to Biblical literalism.

Yes. Based on radiometric dating techniques as well as stratigraphic principles.

What was added exactly? Fast growing trees and long lifespans? How the spans changed abruptly?

The rest of the universe (although it would be a walk in the park without missing a lick of an ice cream cone for me) is not a topic in this thread. Let's focus on earth. Possibly when I defeat you on earth we can move to the heavens:)

There is no radiometric dating for old ages. That is just a misapplication of young date radioactive dating onto an unknown past. A misreading of the actual isotope ratio patterns.

[teddyv]

1 hour ago, dad2 said:

What was added exactly? Fast growing trees and long lifespans? How the spans changed abruptly?

All of that. Show me where the Bible unequivocally states that "trees grew fast" and that other things changed along with just languages at Babel. YEC always claim to read the Bible as plain reading, or literally, if you prefer, yet here you are adding inane speculation to the text. Any you complain that TE's do that? What a double standard.

1 hour ago, dad2 said:

The rest of the universe (although it would be a walk in the park without missing a lick of an ice cream cone for me) is not a topic in this thread. Let's focus on earth. Possibly when I defeat you on earth we can move to the heavens:)

So you are saying that the "heavens" is referring to the universe? Your lack of historical and cultural context makes our discussion fruitless because you are insisting on a paradigm that I don't accept. We are not in the same ballpark.

1 hour ago, dad2 said:

There is no radiometric dating for old ages. That is just a misapplication of young date radioactive dating onto an unknown past. A misreading of the actual isotope ratio patterns.

The entire field of geology would argue with you on that.

[dad2]

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All of that. Show me where the Bible unequivocally states that "trees grew fast"

In Creation week a garden was PLANTED. That week it bore fruit. Also when Noah sent out a bird to see if there was dry land it came back. He sent it out again a week later an lo and behold a fresh branch in it's mouth!

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and that other things changed along with just languages at Babel.

No one after Babel lived real long lives. The same can't be said of the flood. Also as I mentioned they tried to build up to a spirit domain. Angels also used to marry and have kids before the flood. Never again was that true so something changed somewhere along the line. In physical evidence we also see that the continents were joined at one time. That is another thing that probably changed fast at the time of Babel! Rapid continental separation that went on while the laws were still different than they were today! (Hence no killing friction heat). But it seems also likely that by the time things got to around where they now are we had entered this current nature/set of forces and laws. Why? Because a lot of heat was generated and remains to this day under the earth.

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So you are saying that the "heavens" is referring to the universe?

The heavens in the bible refers to where the birds fly and also where the stars are and also beyond that, the third heaven. This thread is dealing with evidence on earth. No problem if you run, you would be defeated later anyhow.

[Who me]

23 hours ago, Who me said:

Their arguments have the very same flaw radioactive does

My quote you made. Both yes groups argue that radioactive  decay dating is inaccurate, your post implies  they were not aware of these assumptions.

They both also make the assumption that God works normally  through the processes  that science can measure.

Miracles while always possible are not Gods normal way of working.

[teddyv]

On 10/18/2023 at 3:32 PM, dad2 said:

In Creation week a garden was PLANTED. That week it bore fruit. Also when Noah sent out a bird to see if there was dry land it came back. He sent it out again a week later an lo and behold a fresh branch in it's mouth!

No one after Babel lived real long lives. The same can't be said of the flood. Also as I mentioned they tried to build up to a spirit domain. Angels also used to marry and have kids before the flood. Never again was that true so something changed somewhere along the line. In physical evidence we also see that the continents were joined at one time. That is another thing that probably changed fast at the time of Babel! Rapid continental separation that went on while the laws were still different than they were today! (Hence no killing friction heat). But it seems also likely that by the time things got to around where they now are we had entered this current nature/set of forces and laws. Why? Because a lot of heat was generated and remains to this day under the earth.

I think we are so far apart on our approach to hermeneutics and interpretation, I doubt we can reach any consensus here.

If you want to suspend the laws of physics, or invoke some other pre-Flood physics, I guess you can do that. Honestly, I think you are over-thinking it in your apparent need to be right in this matter. Why not simply invoke miraculous intervention since these acts would not be bound by physical laws? No one can argue against that from a scientific or naturalistic view since it's supernatural.

On 10/18/2023 at 3:32 PM, dad2 said:

The heavens in the bible refers to where the birds fly and also where the stars are and also beyond that, the third heaven. This thread is dealing with evidence on earth. No problem if you run, you would be defeated later anyhow.

What is this continued need for posturing? Are you 12 years old?