Charlie744 Posted November 9, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,667 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 857 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) In a few chapters in the book of Daniel, Gabriel reveals the 10 toes, the 10 horns and the 10 kings. Question: Do these 10 represent the same entity or are they different entities? And whether your answer is A or B, who are these 10? Edited November 9, 2023 by Charlie744 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted November 9, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.47 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) My answer is they are the same and they represent ten governments of ten countries in the middle east who share the promised land with the little horn who is the Israeli government and it's little kingdom. They will all be destroyed during the war of Armegeddon.Im thinking about 5 years from now. I've come up with these. Daniel 7 24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. . The little horn that came up last. Israel-1948 The three which were subdued Egypt-1922 Jordan-1946 Syria-1946 The remaining horns Oman -NA Quatar-1868 Yemen-1918 Iraq-1922 Turkey-1923 Saudi Arabia -1932 Lebanon-1946 As for the little horn,his kingdom will be taken away and given to the saints of God . 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. 27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. 28 Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart. Edited November 9, 2023 by Shilohsfoal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted November 10, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,667 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 857 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 10, 2023 On 11/9/2023 at 11:06 AM, Shilohsfoal said: My answer is they are the same and they represent ten governments of ten countries in the middle east who share the promised land with the little horn who is the Israeli government and it's little kingdom. They will all be destroyed during the war of Armegeddon.Im thinking about 5 years from now. I've come up with these. Daniel 7 24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. . The little horn that came up last. Israel-1948 The three which were subdued Egypt-1922 Jordan-1946 Syria-1946 The remaining horns Oman -NA Quatar-1868 Yemen-1918 Iraq-1922 Turkey-1923 Saudi Arabia -1932 Lebanon-1946 As for the little horn,his kingdom will be taken away and given to the saints of God . 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. 27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. 28 Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart. If they are the same, and they are, they have been purposefully referred to using the 3 different ways- toes, horns and kings. Why are they referred to differently? Does this possibly indicate they have changed over a given period of time? Does it allow us to identify who and when these 10 arrived on the scene, their purpose and their mission within the book of Daniel. The answer to all of those questions is “yes,” and you need to find those answers before you determine their identity. They are not 10 nations, 10 kingdoms, 10 powers in todays world, or 10 religions groups. It is so much more complicated… but in order to unpack Daniel and these 10, we have to interpret Daniel in a messianic manner- not a historical one which everyone does. Daniel is not a history lesson or a history book where we simply try to match tha actors and events in Daniel’s verses to our flawed history books. So, to give you a start, these 10 were in existence at the time of Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted November 10, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.47 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Charlie744 said: If they are the same, and they are, they have been purposefully referred to using the 3 different ways- toes, horns and kings. Why are they referred to differently? Does this possibly indicate they have changed over a given period of time? Does it allow us to identify who and when these 10 arrived on the scene, their purpose and their mission within the book of Daniel. The answer to all of those questions is “yes,” and you need to find those answers before you determine their identity. They are not 10 nations, 10 kingdoms, 10 powers in todays world, or 10 religions groups. It is so much more complicated… but in order to unpack Daniel and these 10, we have to interpret Daniel in a messianic manner- not a historical one which everyone does. Daniel is not a history lesson or a history book where we simply try to match tha actors and events in Daniel’s verses to our flawed history books. So, to give you a start, these 10 were in existence at the time of Christ. No,I had written the dates they came up and those dates are accurate.Even the little horn which subdued three.The ten have one mind showing they have one religion and I've studied their religion to find out why they would go into petition.The little horn is described as being different than the ten and it is.Its religion is different than the ten.Psalms 83 talks about the ten as well and how they have one mind just as revelation does. Edited November 10, 2023 by Shilohsfoal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted November 10, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,667 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 857 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 10, 2023 9 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said: No,I had written the dates they came up and those dates are accurate.Even the little horn which subdued three.The ten have one mind showing they have one religion and I've studied their religion to find out why they would go into petition.The little horn is described as being different than the ten and it is.Its religion is different than the ten.Psalms 83 talks about the ten as well and how they have one mind just as revelation does. Thank you. We certainly agree with a few things; the little horn is so much different than the 10 horns. The little horn is the papacy and is the evil one who will go against HIs people, His saints, His laws and commands and even claim to be God on earth, have divinity, on and on. These characteristices are found in chapters 7 and 8. They all apply to only one individual and that can only be the papacy who comes to full power in the late 5th century after the demise of pagan Rome. The ten do have ONE mind and act in concert with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted November 10, 2023 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 241 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 6,955 Content Per Day: 3.27 Reputation: 4,872 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Online Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted November 10, 2023 On 11/10/2023 at 6:33 AM, Charlie744 said: In a few chapters in the book of Daniel, Gabriel reveals the 10 toes, FYI @Charlie744 Mentions of ten in the Book of Daniel, toes not included: Dan_1:12 Prove thy servants, I beseech thee, ten days; and let them give us pulse to eat, and water to drink. Dan_1:14 So he consented to them in this matter, and proved them ten days. Dan_1:15 And at the end of ten days their countenances appeared fairer and fatter in flesh than all the children which did eat the portion of the king's meat. Dan_1:20 And in all matters of wisdom and understanding, that the king enquired of them, he found them ten times better than all the magicians and astrologers that were in all his realm. Dan_7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. Dan_7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. Dan_7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. Dan_7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. Dan_11:12 And when he hath taken away the multitude, his heart shall be lifted up; and he shall cast down many ten thousands: but he shall not be strengthened by it. Mention of toes in the Book of Daniel, Gabriel not included: Dan_2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. Dan_2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted November 10, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,667 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 857 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 10, 2023 34 minutes ago, Michael37 said: FYI @Charlie744 Mentions of ten in the Book of Daniel, toes not included: Dan_1:12 Prove thy servants, I beseech thee, ten days; and let them give us pulse to eat, and water to drink. Dan_1:14 So he consented to them in this matter, and proved them ten days. Dan_1:15 And at the end of ten days their countenances appeared fairer and fatter in flesh than all the children which did eat the portion of the king's meat. Dan_1:20 And in all matters of wisdom and understanding, that the king enquired of them, he found them ten times better than all the magicians and astrologers that were in all his realm. Dan_7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. Dan_7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. Dan_7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. Dan_7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. Dan_11:12 And when he hath taken away the multitude, his heart shall be lifted up; and he shall cast down many ten thousands: but he shall not be strengthened by it. Mention of toes in the Book of Daniel, Gabriel not included: Dan_2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. Dan_2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. Thank you Michael. The number 10 and 7 are found in Daniel quite often. What do you make of the 10 toes, horns, kings? Are they one and the same? This is certainly one of the most difficult interpretations in the entire Scriptures!!!!! Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted November 11, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.47 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 11, 2023 4 hours ago, Charlie744 said: Thank you. We certainly agree with a few things; the little horn is so much different than the 10 horns. The little horn is the papacy and is the evil one who will go against HIs people, His saints, His laws and commands and even claim to be God on earth, have divinity, on and on. These characteristices are found in chapters 7 and 8. They all apply to only one individual and that can only be the papacy who comes to full power in the late 5th century after the demise of pagan Rome. The ten do have ONE mind and act in concert with each other. No,the little horn is not the papacy.Itbis the Israeli government who's capital is in Jerusalem.That is who persecutes and kills the saints of God. Mathew 23 33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! The saints are not persecuted by the papacy.They are persecuted by the Israeli government in Jerusalem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted November 11, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,667 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 857 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said: No,the little horn is not the papacy.Itbis the Israeli government who's capital is in Jerusalem.That is who persecutes and kills the saints of God. Mathew 23 33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! The saints are not persecuted by the papacy.They are persecuted by the Israeli government in Jerusalem. Before you look into the NT to find a verse or a couple of verses to try and identify the little horn, I would suggest you go to the book of Daniel to identify him. That is where God clearly gave us at least 11 specific characteristics of this little horn. Timing- he (little horn) comes out of the 4th beast kingdom of pagan Rome. That can not be Israel! Secondly, he came out of pagan Rome BEFORE pagan Rome was slain and it’s body destroyed. That happened in the late 5th century when papal Rome succeeded them. Look at all the things God said this little horn would do (claim to be equal to God on earth, go against His people (Jews) His saints, and speak against God Himself. And also focus on the time of his arrival- can be no one other than the papacy. Don’r take my word for it, take His in Daniel 7,8,9, and 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted November 11, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.47 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 11, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Charlie744 said: Before you look into the NT to find a verse or a couple of verses to try and identify the little horn, I would suggest you go to the book of Daniel to identify him. That is where God clearly gave us at least 11 specific characteristics of this little horn. Timing- he (little horn) comes out of the 4th beast kingdom of pagan Rome. That can not be Israel! Secondly, he came out of pagan Rome BEFORE pagan Rome was slain and it’s body destroyed. That happened in the late 5th century when papal Rome succeeded them. Look at all the things God said this little horn would do (claim to be equal to God on earth, go against His people (Jews) His saints, and speak against God Himself. And also focus on the time of his arrival- can be no one other than the papacy. Don’r take my word for it, take His in Daniel 7,8,9, and 11. False The little horn did not come out of Rome. The little horn came out of one of the kingdoms that stood after Greece.One of the four kingdoms that stood after Greece.Butvit did not come out of Rome. Daniel 8:8-9 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven. And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. The little horn is now in the pleasant land.It traveled east and south and arrived in the pleasant land just before 1948 and arrived by ship out of the sea.Rome is not in the pleasant land .The nation called Israel is. As for who goes against God ,you need to try reading the bible some.Just a little. 1 Samuel 8:7 And the LORD told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. Edited November 11, 2023 by Shilohsfoal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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