The 10 toes, the 10 horns, the 10 kings in Daniel

[Charlie744]

53 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

False

The little horn did not come out of Rome.

The little horn came out of one of the kingdoms that stood after Greece.One of the four kingdoms that stood after Greece.Butvit did not come out of Rome.

 

Daniel 8:8-9

Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

 

 

 

The little horn is now in the pleasant land.It traveled east and south and arrived in the pleasant land just before 1948 and arrived by ship out of the sea.Rome is not in the pleasant land .The nation called Israel is.

As for who goes against God ,you need to try reading the bible some.Just a little.

1 Samuel 8:7

And the LORD told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king.

 

 

Please read Daniel 7:7-8. The little horn comes out of the 4th beast.

Then in 7:11, he hears the little horn speak pompous things until the beast was slain (pagan Rome). 
 

Then in 7:19-20, Daniel wants to know the truth about the 4th beast which was different than all the others (the first 4th beast of pagan Rome was slain and it’s body destroyed. This 4th beast succeeded pagan Rome which would become papal Rome. This one had the 10 horns and the little horn coming out of it and it would destroy 3 of the horns. The little horn is the papacy of the 4th beast kingdom of papal Rome. 
 

Then in 7:21-25, Gabriel gives Daniel the “interpretation” of this 4th beast kingdom (papal Rome headed by the little horn). 
 

There are only 4 kingdoms in the metal man image but the 4th kingdom will be “divided” - pagan Rome is no longer but replaced by papal Rome. 
 

Consequently, the timing of the little horn is revealed in these verses. He arrives out of pagan Rome, and then he rises to the top of the 4th beast kingdom of papal Rome, where he will continue until the end of time. 
 

These are the verses where God first reveals the coming of the little horn and the things he will do against His people and even against God Himself. 
 

[Shilohsfoal]

19 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Please read Daniel 7:7-8. The little horn comes out of the 4th beast.

Then in 7:11, he hears the little horn speak pompous things until the beast was slain (pagan Rome). 
 

Then in 7:19-20, Daniel wants to know the truth about the 4th beast which was different than all the others (the first 4th beast of pagan Rome was slain and it’s body destroyed. This 4th beast succeeded pagan Rome which would become papal Rome. This one had the 10 horns and the little horn coming out of it and it would destroy 3 of the horns. The little horn is the papacy of the 4th beast kingdom of papal Rome. 
 

Then in 7:21-25, Gabriel gives Daniel the “interpretation” of this 4th beast kingdom (papal Rome headed by the little horn). 
 

There are only 4 kingdoms in the metal man image but the 4th kingdom will be “divided” - pagan Rome is no longer but replaced by papal Rome. 
 

Consequently, the timing of the little horn is revealed in these verses. He arrives out of pagan Rome, and then he rises to the top of the 4th beast kingdom of papal Rome, where he will continue until the end of time. 
 

These are the verses where God first reveals the coming of the little horn and the things he will do against His people and even against God Himself. 
 

False.

The fourth kingdom to rise from.nebuchadnezars kingdom was not Rome.

Nebuchadnezzar's kingdom which was never in Rome is devided now.

 

Daniel 2;41

Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay.

 

I'm not sure what this vendetta you have against a church is all about,but I assure you the Muslim countries in the middle east are the ones fighting against the lamb for possession of the promised kingdom.The Pope has no interest in taking control of the promised land.

[Charlie744]

5 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

False.

The fourth kingdom to rise from.nebuchadnezars kingdom was not Rome.

Nebuchadnezzar's kingdom which was never in Rome is devided now.

 

Daniel 2;41

Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay.

 

I'm not sure what this vendetta you have against a church is all about,but I assure you the Muslim countries in the middle east are the ones fighting against the lamb for possession of the promised kingdom.The Pope has no interest in taking control of the promised land.

 

You have not addressed Daniel 7— who are those verse’s speaking about?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

18 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

You have not addressed Daniel 7— who are those verse’s speaking about?

 

I've already told you but you could not hear.Whst good would it do to have to repeat myself over and over again.Your utter rejection of the revelation of Jesus Christ has led you to war with a church.But you don't care to learn from revelation.Your only goal is take war with a church.

These ten horns who make war with the lamb for possession of the promised land is not a church as you believe.They are muslim kings of ten Muslim countries who want possession of the promised land.

 

Revelation 17:13-14

These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

 

psalms 83

 

⁵ With one mind they plot together;
    they form an alliance against you—
⁶ the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
    of Moab and the Hagrites,
⁷ Byblos, Ammon and Amalek,
    Philistia, with the people of Tyre.
⁸ Even Assyria has joined them
    to reinforce Lot’s descendants.^[b]

⁹ Do to them as you did to Midian,
    as you did to Sisera and Jabin at the river Kishon,
¹⁰ who perished at Endor
    and became like dung on the ground.
¹¹ Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb,
    all their princes like Zebah and Zalmunna,
¹² who said, “Let us take possession
    of the pasturelands of God.”

 

 

 

I'm done with this conversation and your war against a church.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I've already told you but you could not hear.Whst good would it do to have to repeat myself over and over again.Your utter rejection of the revelation of Jesus Christ has led you to war with a church.But you don't care to learn from revelation.Your only goal is take war with a church.

These ten horns who make war with the lamb for possession of the promised land is not a church as you believe.They are muslim kings of ten Muslim countries who want possession of the promised land.

 

Revelation 17:13-14

These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

 

psalms 83

 

⁵ With one mind they plot together;
    they form an alliance against you—
⁶ the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
    of Moab and the Hagrites,
⁷ Byblos, Ammon and Amalek,
    Philistia, with the people of Tyre.
⁸ Even Assyria has joined them
    to reinforce Lot’s descendants.^[b]

⁹ Do to them as you did to Midian,
    as you did to Sisera and Jabin at the river Kishon,
¹⁰ who perished at Endor
    and became like dung on the ground.
¹¹ Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb,
    all their princes like Zebah and Zalmunna,
¹² who said, “Let us take possession
    of the pasturelands of God.”

 

 

 

I'm done with this conversation and your war against a church.

Well, this is the first time we agree with each other. Best wishes. 
 

 

[abcdef]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

Please read Daniel 7:7-8. The little horn comes out of the 4th beast.

Then in 7:11, he hears the little horn speak pompous things until the beast was slain (pagan Rome). 
 

Then in 7:19-20, Daniel wants to know the truth about the 4th beast which was different than all the others (the first 4th beast of pagan Rome was slain and it’s body destroyed. This 4th beast succeeded pagan Rome which would become papal Rome. This one had the 10 horns and the little horn coming out of it and it would destroy 3 of the horns. The little horn is the papacy of the 4th beast kingdom of papal Rome. 
 

Then in 7:21-25, Gabriel gives Daniel the “interpretation” of this 4th beast kingdom (papal Rome headed by the little horn). 
 

There are only 4 kingdoms in the metal man image but the 4th kingdom will be “divided” - pagan Rome is no longer but replaced by papal Rome. 
 

Consequently, the timing of the little horn is revealed in these verses. He arrives out of pagan Rome, and then he rises to the top of the 4th beast kingdom of papal Rome, where he will continue until the end of time. 
 

These are the verses where God first reveals the coming of the little horn and the things he will do against His people and even against God Himself. 
 

I agree.

Why not respond with someone who agrees with you instead of some who will not agree?

All of these things that you have said are right.

It is just a matter of understanding that many of the the times and numbers are symbolic and not literal.

The Roman 4th beast of Dan 7:25 rules the saints (the children of Israel, both believing and unbelieving) for 3 1/2 times.

The faithful woman of Rev 12:14 flees into the wilderness of the gentile nation for 3 1/2 times. She is chased by the Dan 7 Roman fourth beast.

History shows that the children of Israel fled into the wilderness of the gentile nations after 70 AD. Israel returned to Jerusalem in 1967.

When Jerusalem was restored it ended the times of the gentiles that Jesus spoke about in Lk 21:24 and the 3 1/2 times that the Roman beast ruled over the children of Israel, both believing and unbelieving.

------

The rule of the Dan 7 fourth beast horns end when Jerusalem is restored.

The 10 toes of the Dan 2 statue end when Jerusalem is restored.

The time of the Rev 12 woman in the wilderness ends when Jerusalem is restored.

The rule of the Rev 13 beast ends when Jerusalem is restored.

-----

The Roman Catholic Church is the little horn of Dan 7. This also means that the Bishop of Rome is the Antichrist. 

But he did not rule over the children of Israel for only 3 1/2 years, or 1260 days/years, but from 63 BC until 1967, about 1900 years ish.

To say that the 3 1/2 times is future, is associated, that the Bishop of Rome cannot be the Antichrist because he hasn't been revealed yet.

But you have already recognized that the Bishop of Rome is the little horn of Dan 7.  

This means that the numbers in these passages are symbolic and not literal, and that the literal interpretation of the numbers is designed to hide the identity of the Antichrist, the Bishop of Rome/Caesar.

See that the Roman beast nation changes form through the centuries, but is still Rome.

---

 

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

I agree.

Why not respond with someone who agrees with you instead of some who will not agree?

All of these things that you have said are right.

It is just a matter of understanding that many of the the times and numbers are symbolic and not literal.

The Roman 4th beast of Dan 7:25 rules the saints (the children of Israel, both believing and unbelieving) for 3 1/2 times.

The faithful woman of Rev 12:14 flees into the wilderness of the gentile nation for 3 1/2 times. She is chased by the Dan 7 Roman fourth beast.

History shows that the children of Israel fled into the wilderness of the gentile nations after 70 AD. Israel returned to Jerusalem in 1967.

When Jerusalem was restored it ended the times of the gentiles that Jesus spoke about in Lk 21:24 and the 3 1/2 times that the Roman beast ruled over the children of Israel, both believing and unbelieving.

------

The rule of the Dan 7 fourth beast horns end when Jerusalem is restored.

The 10 toes of the Dan 2 statue end when Jerusalem is restored.

The time of the Rev 12 woman in the wilderness ends when Jerusalem is restored.

The rule of the Rev 13 beast ends when Jerusalem is restored.

-----

The Roman Catholic Church is the little horn of Dan 7. This also means that the Bishop of Rome is the Antichrist. 

But he did not rule over the children of Israel for only 3 1/2 years, or 1260 days/years, but from 63 BC until 1967, about 1900 years ish.

To say that the 3 1/2 times is future, is associated, that the Bishop of Rome cannot be the Antichrist because he hasn't been revealed yet.

But you have already recognized that the Bishop of Rome is the little horn of Dan 7.  

This means that the numbers in these passages are symbolic and not literal, and that the literal interpretation of the numbers is designed to hide the identity of the Antichrist, the Bishop of Rome/Caesar.

See that the Roman beast nation changes form through the centuries, but is still Rome.

---

 

I think this forum produces many views that are shared. Many are very difficult to understand- how they could have developed. 
 

However, this reminds us just how complicated and enigmatic the book of Daniel truly is… 

I have found that because it is so complicated, most people try to find the understanding and interpretations from Revelation. 
 

Daniel and Revelation do not contradict or conflict with each other but Daniel must be interpreted before Revelation. 
 

God has he placed so many guidelines, restrictions, and borders and boundaries in the book of Daniel to ensure our interpretations stay within those boundaries throughout the 12 chapters. 
 
He had also limited the number of actors and events within those boundaries to a relatively few - again, as they travel through the chapters. 
 

But the 4 kingdoms remains true throughout the 12 chapters and the actors found within chapter 2 continue to chapter 12. The ONLY additional actor that comes into Daniel after chapter 2 is the little horn. 
 

Certainly, there is the mention of the 4 “notable” ones after Alexander, (excluding the good and bad angelic beings), but the little horn (papacy) is the only actor within His plan of salvation. No Seleucid’s, Ptolemy’s, or Epiphanies, or even an “anti- Christ” actor or figure 

God had gone to great lengths to identify the little horn, when he arrived, what he will do, and how long he will stay in the earth. And, he will be destroyed without human hands. 
 

The book of Daniel provides the “structure,” the borders and boundaries, the guidance for keeping our interpretations within that “structure” throughout the 12 chapters. Therefore, we should not be adding to or taking away from God’s Word and prophecies. 
 

This “structure” and all of its restrictions are found in Daniel- they are NOT found in the book of Revelation. Therefore, Daniel must be interpreted first and apply their interpretations to Revelation. 
 

The book of Daniel was written for the Jews so they could read, study and interpret the timing of the coming of their Messiah. Obviously, God thought this prophetic book, along with all the other prophetic verses in the Tanakh was sufficient to give to them for this revelation. 
 

Consequently, the book of Daniel and the Tanakh is all we need to unpack Daniel’s prophetic messages. The fact that we know what actually took place at the time of Jesus AND the demise of pagan Rome and the takeover of papal Rome after the cross and the beginning reign of this little horn in the lay 5th century should make it so much easier to understand. 
 

There is ABSOLUTELY NO ANTI- CHRIST figure or actor. There is ABSOLUTELY NO 7 year tribulation period at the end time. The evil one or the one that goes against everything that is of God has clearly been disclosed, not by me, but by God Himself in Daniel 7,8,9 and 11. 
 

If you want to interpret Daniel, stay in Daniel or not he Tanakh - that is why God have all the information the Jews would need to interpret His revelations. 
 

The 70 weeks prophecy of chapter 9 has been completely fulfilled by the Messiah. The ONLY remaining time prophecy relating to the 70 weeks prophecy MUST be fulfilled by the Jews (only) BEFORE the second coming of the Messiah. 
 

When God deems the time of the Gentiles is over, He will remove the blindness from the eyes of His people and they will realize the “One whom they pierced” was and is their Messiah and the God of  Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God will once again give His people (as done to Paul) their “Damascus” experience. For 3.5 years (remaining 3.5 years of the 70th week which also is the 3.5 years in Revelation), the Jews will preach the Messiah and complete THEIR final and fourth Great Jubilee cycle. Then the Messiah will come. 
 

Because the Jews rejected their Messiah and crucified Him, the “counting” of the fourth and final Great Jubilee cycle stopped. It stopped exactly at the time of the cross or 3.5 year’s remaining of the 70th week prophecy. The Jews were no longer in standing with their God as a result of His rejection. The counting will begin again when their eyes are opened. Then, everyone will know there are at least 3.5 years until the Messiah returns. 
 

Regarding yesterday’s wars or today’s wars in Israel, this does not reveal the “end” of all things. Tragic, horrific and senseless but God has told us, “there will be wars and rumors of wars.” This has been going on since Cain and Able- this is OUR sin nature (we have been doing this to death- pun intended). 
 

But there are definitely signs of the true end times and the 3.5 years is just one of them found in Daniel. There are no less than 4 truly end time markers that God has incorporated in the book of Daniel. However, everyone one of them has been misinterpreted and applied do it’s misapplication of the particular subject, and by using the infamous “year for a day” principle. 
 

Sorry for the long winded response. 
 

 

 

 

[abcdef]

2 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

I think this forum produces many views that are shared. Many are very difficult to understand- how they could have developed. 
 

However, this reminds us just how complicated and enigmatic the book of Daniel truly is… 

 

2 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

I have found that because it is so complicated, most people try to find the understanding and interpretations from Revelation. 
Daniel and Revelation do not contradict or conflict with each other but Daniel must be interpreted before Revelation. 

You have the truth that the 4th beast of Dan 7 is Rome and the truth that the iron of the Dan 2 statue is Rome.

All other interpretations and timelines must fit into the examples that are shown there.

Both Dan 2 and Dan 7 show identical timelines and nations. Each shows different details about the iron (Dan2) 4th beast/horns (Dan 7).

By focusing on these observations and details involved in these 2 passages, we can reason out exactly where we are in prophecy and identify the entities right now.

---

May I ask, "When does the statue in Dan 2 begin? "What is the date roughly when Babylon conquered Jerusalem?"

"What event causes the statue to end, the toes and horns to end?"

-

The answers are central to the understanding of Dan 2 and Dan 7.

That is, "When will Jerusalem be restored to the children of Israel?"

This was the major question for Israel for over 2500 years. The answer is Dan 2 and Dan 7 that show the times of the gentiles. There will be 4 gentile nations that dominate the children of Israel before Jerusalem is restored.

 ----

The Revelation is also centered on this question, "When will Jerusalem be restored?"

In the 96 AD Revelation, the answer is, until the time of the 4th beast (Rome) and the 10 horns is over. That is the second part of the times of the gentiles, after 70 AD. The second 3 1/2 times.

The first 3 1/2 times is from Babylon until the 70 AD scattering, Dan 12:7.

 

2 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

God has he placed so many guidelines, restrictions, and borders and boundaries in the book of Daniel to ensure our interpretations stay within those boundaries throughout the 12 chapters. 
 
He had also limited the number of actors and events within those boundaries to a relatively few - again, as they travel through the chapters. 
 

But the 4 kingdoms remains true throughout the 12 chapters and the actors found within chapter 2 continue to chapter 12. The ONLY additional actor that comes into Daniel after chapter 2 is the little horn. 
 

Certainly, there is the mention of the 4 “notable” ones after Alexander, (excluding the good and bad angelic beings), but the little horn (papacy) is the only actor within His plan of salvation. No Seleucid’s, Ptolemy’s, or Epiphanies, or even an “anti- Christ” actor or figure 

God had gone to great lengths to identify the little horn, when he arrived, what he will do, and how long he will stay in the earth. And, he will be destroyed without human hands. 
 

The book of Daniel provides the “structure,” the borders and boundaries, the guidance for keeping our interpretations within that “structure” throughout the 12 chapters. Therefore, we should not be adding to or taking away from God’s Word and prophecies. 
 

This “structure” and all of its restrictions are found in Daniel- they are NOT found in the book of Revelation. Therefore, Daniel must be interpreted first and apply their interpretations to Revelation. 
 

The book of Daniel was written for the Jews so they could read, study and interpret the timing of the coming of their Messiah. Obviously, God thought this prophetic book, along with all the other prophetic verses in the Tanakh was sufficient to give to them for this revelation. 
 

Consequently, the book of Daniel and the Tanakh is all we need to unpack Daniel’s prophetic messages. The fact that we know what actually took place at the time of Jesus AND the demise of pagan Rome and the takeover of papal Rome after the cross and the beginning reign of this little horn in the lay 5th century should make it so much easier to understand. 
 

There is ABSOLUTELY NO ANTI- CHRIST figure or actor. There is ABSOLUTELY NO 7 year tribulation period at the end time. The evil one or the one that goes against everything that is of God has clearly been disclosed, not by me, but by God Himself in Daniel 7,8,9 and 11. 
 

If you want to interpret Daniel, stay in Daniel or not he Tanakh - that is why God have all the information the Jews would need to interpret His revelations. 
 

The 70 weeks prophecy of chapter 9 has been completely fulfilled by the Messiah. The ONLY remaining time prophecy relating to the 70 weeks prophecy MUST be fulfilled by the Jews (only) BEFORE the second coming of the Messiah. 
 

When God deems the time of the Gentiles is over, He will remove the blindness from the eyes of His people and they will realize the “One whom they pierced” was and is their Messiah and the God of  Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God will once again give His people (as done to Paul) their “Damascus” experience. For 3.5 years (remaining 3.5 years of the 70th week which also is the 3.5 years in Revelation), the Jews will preach the Messiah and complete THEIR final and fourth Great Jubilee cycle. Then the Messiah will come. 
 

Because the Jews rejected their Messiah and crucified Him, the “counting” of the fourth and final Great Jubilee cycle stopped. It stopped exactly at the time of the cross or 3.5 year’s remaining of the 70th week prophecy. The Jews were no longer in standing with their God as a result of His rejection. The counting will begin again when their eyes are opened. Then, everyone will know there are at least 3.5 years until the Messiah returns. 
 

Regarding yesterday’s wars or today’s wars in Israel, this does not reveal the “end” of all things. Tragic, horrific and senseless but God has told us, “there will be wars and rumors of wars.” This has been going on since Cain and Able- this is OUR sin nature (we have been doing this to death- pun intended). 
 

But there are definitely signs of the true end times and the 3.5 years is just one of them found in Daniel. There are no less than 4 truly end time markers that God has incorporated in the book of Daniel. However, everyone one of them has been misinterpreted and applied do it’s misapplication of the particular subject, and by using the infamous “year for a day” principle. 
 

Sorry for the long winded response. 

 

[abcdef]

3 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

I think this forum produces many views that are shared. Many are very difficult to understand- how they could have developed. 
 

However, this reminds us just how complicated and enigmatic the book of Daniel truly is… 

I have found that because it is so complicated, most people try to find the understanding and interpretations from Revelation. 
 

Daniel and Revelation do not contradict or conflict with each other but Daniel must be interpreted before Revelation. 
 

God has he placed so many guidelines, restrictions, and borders and boundaries in the book of Daniel to ensure our interpretations stay within those boundaries throughout the 12 chapters. 
 
He had also limited the number of actors and events within those boundaries to a relatively few - again, as they travel through the chapters. 

 

3 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

But the 4 kingdoms remains true throughout the 12 chapters and the actors found within chapter 2 continue to chapter 12. The ONLY additional actor that comes into Daniel after chapter 2 is the little horn.

The little horn is also seen in Rev 17:11. The 4th beast of Dan 7 is also the beast of the Revelation, Rome.

Changing through the centuries, but still Rome.

 

3 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

 Certainly, there is the mention of the 4 “notable” ones after Alexander, (excluding the good and bad angelic beings), but the little horn (papacy) is the only actor within His plan of salvation. No Seleucid’s, Ptolemy’s, or Epiphanies, or even an “anti- Christ” actor or figure 

God had gone to great lengths to identify the little horn, when he arrived, what he will do, and how long he will stay in the earth. And, he will be destroyed without human hands. 
 

The book of Daniel provides the “structure,” the borders and boundaries, the guidance for keeping our interpretations within that “structure” throughout the 12 chapters. Therefore, we should not be adding to or taking away from God’s Word and prophecies. 
 

This “structure” and all of its restrictions are found in Daniel- they are NOT found in the book of Revelation. Therefore, Daniel must be interpreted first and apply their interpretations to Revelation. 
 

The book of Daniel was written for the Jews so they could read, study and interpret the timing of the coming of their Messiah. Obviously, God thought this prophetic book, along with all the other prophetic verses in the Tanakh was sufficient to give to them for this revelation. 
 

Consequently, the book of Daniel and the Tanakh is all we need to unpack Daniel’s prophetic messages. The fact that we know what actually took place at the time of Jesus AND the demise of pagan Rome and the takeover of papal Rome after the cross and the beginning reign of this little horn in the lay 5th century should make it so much easier to understand. 
 

There is ABSOLUTELY NO ANTI- CHRIST figure or actor. There is ABSOLUTELY NO 7 year tribulation period at the end time. The evil one or the one that goes against everything that is of God has clearly been disclosed, not by me, but by God Himself in Daniel 7,8,9 and 11. 
 

If you want to interpret Daniel, stay in Daniel or not he Tanakh - that is why God have all the information the Jews would need to interpret His revelations. 
 

The 70 weeks prophecy of chapter 9 has been completely fulfilled by the Messiah. The ONLY remaining time prophecy relating to the 70 weeks prophecy MUST be fulfilled by the Jews (only) BEFORE the second coming of the Messiah. 
 

When God deems the time of the Gentiles is over, He will remove the blindness from the eyes of His people and they will realize the “One whom they pierced” was and is their Messiah and the God of  Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God will once again give His people (as done to Paul) their “Damascus” experience. For 3.5 years (remaining 3.5 years of the 70th week which also is the 3.5 years in Revelation), the Jews will preach the Messiah and complete THEIR final and fourth Great Jubilee cycle. Then the Messiah will come. 
 

Because the Jews rejected their Messiah and crucified Him, the “counting” of the fourth and final Great Jubilee cycle stopped. It stopped exactly at the time of the cross or 3.5 year’s remaining of the 70th week prophecy. The Jews were no longer in standing with their God as a result of His rejection. The counting will begin again when their eyes are opened. Then, everyone will know there are at least 3.5 years until the Messiah returns. 
 

Regarding yesterday’s wars or today’s wars in Israel, this does not reveal the “end” of all things. Tragic, horrific and senseless but God has told us, “there will be wars and rumors of wars.” This has been going on since Cain and Able- this is OUR sin nature (we have been doing this to death- pun intended). 

 

3 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

But there are definitely signs of the true end times and the 3.5 years is just one of them found in Daniel. There are no less than 4 truly end time markers that God has incorporated in the book of Daniel. However, everyone one of them has been misinterpreted and applied do it’s misapplication of the particular subject, and by using the infamous “year for a day” principle. 

I want to say that there are many prophecies that are mixed up by people and misapplied to the Dan 2&7 timelines.

I agree that the answers are there, and I believe that they will be revealed, in our time.

 

3 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Sorry for the long winded response. 

 No problem.

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

 

You have the truth that the 4th beast of Dan 7 is Rome and the truth that the iron of the Dan 2 statue is Rome.

All other interpretations and timelines must fit into the examples that are shown there.

Both Dan 2 and Dan 7 show identical timelines and nations. Each shows different details about the iron (Dan2) 4th beast/horns (Dan 7).

By focusing on these observations and details involved in these 2 passages, we can reason out exactly where we are in prophecy and identify the entities right now.

---

May I ask, "When does the statue in Dan 2 begin? "What is the date roughly when Babylon conquered Jerusalem?"

"What event causes the statue to end, the toes and horns to end?"

-

The metal man image was given to Nebuchadnezzar approximately 3 -4 years after Daniel was taken to Babylon. Thus, the first kingdom was Babylon and Daniel was taken in 606 BC. The second question is one of the most important questions in the book of Daniel. Literally 99.99% of today's academics, scholars, interpreters, etc., contend the statute is destroyed at the second coming of the Messiah. In other words, the statue is destroyed at the verses 2:34 and 2:35; the stone will break apart and then they will be thrown into the wind and found no more.

However, this is not the case. Verse 2:34 represents the first coming of the Messiah when He will strike the feet (not the toes) and break them apart (not destroy). He did NOT break the statute apart, ONLY the feet made of iron and clay. He did NOT destroy the iron and clay, He broke them into pieces to "divide" them.  There is a 2000 year separation between 2:34 and 2:35.

 

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

The answers are central to the understanding of Dan 2 and Dan 7.

That is, "When will Jerusalem be restored to the children of Israel?"

As you know, Israel is already restored with the Jews living within its nation. Remember, in His first coming, everything physically HAD to be fully restored in Israel AFTER the Babylonian destruction BEFORE the Messiah could arrive. Meaning, it was the Jews mission within the 69 weeks of the 70 weeks of years prophecy to fulfill the restoration of Jerusalem - the city, the walls, the Temple, the seven feast days, the Sabbatial cycle, etc. ALL HAD TO BE RESTORED AND PREPARED BEFORE THE MESSIAH COULD ARRIVE. On the first day of the 70th week, the Messiah was baptized in the Jordan by John. This was the beginning of His ministry, the beginning of the last week of the 70 weeks, the final 7 years of the Great Jubilee cycle. During these last 7 years, God had given Jesus His mission to fulfill - 9:24 (and despite being "cut off" He did complete all 6). The Messiah represented the last piece of furniture that was taken or destroyed by the Babylons. Jeremiah took the Ark of the Covenant from the Sanctuary (first piece of furniture) so the Babylonians would not take it with them. Then they destroyed everything. The 70 weeks of years prophecy was God's plan to restore everything the way it was in the exact reverse order they were taken. Thus, the Ark of the Covenant, in the form of the Messiah would be the last piece restored.

It will be the same in the end times. Now we find Israel is one again back home and fully restored. Everything is once again ready for the coming Messiah. The only remaining piece of furniture is the Messiah to arrive. There is no need for a Temple, the sacrificial services, or any of the other Leviitical ceremonies - they have ALL  been done away with as a result of the cross. But there is ONLY one thing that MUST take place BEFORE the Messiah can return. And it can only be fulfilled by the Jews. It does not have anything to do with any physical walls, Temple, etc., it ONLY has to do with the Jews being in good standing with their God once again. They have been desolated from their God for 2000 years because of their rejection of Him and the cross. When God removes their blindness, they will realize that Jesus was and is their Messiah - the last piece of furniture, if you will, and they will preach the Good News just as Paul did after his Damascus experience, After 3.5 years, the Messiah will return.

 

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

This was the major question for Israel for over 2500 years. The answer is Dan 2 and Dan 7 that show the times of the gentiles. There will be 4 gentile nations that dominate the children of Israel before Jerusalem is restored.

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Please see the response to the previous question... I think it addresses it. Remember, the physical has moved to the spiritual. The physical items of the Temple, the sanctuary, the walls and the sacrificial services IN GOD'S EYES were not destoryed BUT FULFILLED. In man's   eyes, they were definitiey destroyed, but God would see them as having fulfilled their mission on earth.

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

The Revelation is also centered on this question, "When will Jerusalem be restored?"

In the 96 AD Revelation, the answer is, until the time of the 4th beast (Rome) and the 10 horns is over. That is the second part of the times of the gentiles, after 70 AD. The second 3 1/2 times.

Daniel and Revelation will never contradict each other. One is prophetic, and the other reveals what HAS taken place. However, just as God would use different symbols between chapters 2,7, and 8 to discuss the same 4 kingdoms, He will use even more cyrptic symbols in Revelation to reveal what HAS taken place.  If it did not happen in Daniel, it will not be found in Revelation. That is why Daniel must be interpreted first. Once we know the intepretations of Daniel we can them match them or compare them to the very new and difficult symbols of Revelation. There is NO hope in unpacking Revelation until Daniel is understood.

The 10 horns and the little horn will be dealt with at the same time - after the 3.5 years when the Jews will preach the Good News to the world. 

I do not see any "second" 3.5 year period. The only unfulfilled 3.5 year period is when the Jews will realize that Jesus was /is their Messiah. It is prophesied in Daniel and identified / revealed in Revelation. Same 3.5 years.

 

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

The first 3 1/2 times is from Babylon until the 70 AD scattering, Dan 12:7.

 

 

Oh, now I see what you mean by the "second" 3.5 years.  This must be referring to the time, times, and 1/2 time prophecy found in 7:25 and again in 12:7....

First, EVERYONE contends this very specific phrase is to be converted to 3.5 years. They claim this is to be calculated using a "year for a day principle." However, there is NOT ONE of the 5 time elements in Daniel that should be converted or applied using this principle. Not the 7 times in chapter 4, the 7:25 reference, 2300 evenings and mornings reference in chapter 8 nor the 1290 and 1335 days in chapter 12. Each has their own special time period that focuses on the context of the verses surronding and pointing to them.

The 7:25 time element is the exact same time element and meaning found in 12:7 - it is God's way of emphazing this specific end time event (truly an end time event).