Types and shadows, the Spiritual law of prophecy

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

Okay, this is my second post here, and this one is not quite in order at the start here but just laid out to show the concept of wrath, darkness, the hiding of the face (whether from a nation or a man, or that the picture can signify this in Christ in any way)

Again

Isaiah 9:19 Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts is the land darkened

On the cross we see

Mar 15:33 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.

His forsaken cry come in here

Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

And following Jesus words of his being forsaken Isaiah shows a small moment here

Isaiah 54:7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.

And again, through wrath the land is darkened, he would darken it at noon, at the sixth hour darkness was over the whole land, wrath pertains to the darkening of the land even as it pertains to the hiding of his face (which can be done to a whole nation or a man alone)  and on the cross is shown a small moment of being forsaken.

Next verse in Isaiah

Isaiah 54:8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.

The verse before this one reads

Isaiah 54:9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.

Then taking the last two verses and show them by the apostles own words going forward

Start again, 

Isaiah 54:7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.

And this one again...

Isaiah 54:8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.

Which is speaking of Christ or in a way of being as gathered together in /through/by him also

Acts 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

Acts 13:35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Acts 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

Not sure there.

What is your understanding on both the water and blood from his side. I mean we know that from the side of the first man (Adam) was made a woman from (his side) but when he was speared in the side the significance noted there pertained more to  "not a bone of him would be broken" and he was pierced in the side after he was dead already. Similarly a deep sleep was put on Adam before a bone (or rib/ or part) was taken out of the man to make a woman for him, and just as the LORD brought the woman to the man likewise no man can come to me except the Father who sent him draws him (and when he would be lifted up he would draw all men to him). There seems significance in that figure as well, just as it says that we are members of his flesh and bones right? So I was thinking, that piercing could also pertain to the bone of him not being broken as shown in the first man (Adam) the removing of a bone (a rib or part) to make a woman for the man. Shown in Christ where we are only given to see the blood and the water there (the opening of his side). Not that this is not significant in itself but when comparing between what is shown us before in the sides of both men, in the first (Adam, from the earth) and the Last man (Christ, Lord from heaven).

I find it hard to ask questions when thinking about these things though, because I am like, get to the point, what exactly are you asking here? And no real question emerges just a lot of how I am trying to catch a thing between this or that I guess.

The fun part is getting there too! So I can't complain. Perhaps I should ask how you might be catching these things as summed up in Christ. Because to me, on the one hand we have a picture that appears small as one man crucified, but on the other hand we know the sins of the world hang on that picture and we often are not fully aware of why the picture is shown in the way it is, broken down into those hours and significance of the darkness, his side, the blood and the water, the dividing of his garments into four parts etc. I believe they can be found and expounded upon to show the largeness of what happened on the cross also.

Take your time, no rush, God richly bless you

 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by AFlameOfFire

[Stewardofthemystery]

14 hours ago, AFlameOfFire said:

Okay, this is my second post here, and this one is not quite in order at the start here but just laid out to show the concept of wrath, darkness, the hiding of the face (whether from a nation or a man, or that the picture can signify this in Christ in any way)

Again

Isaiah 9:19 Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts is the land darkened

On the cross we see

Mar 15:33 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.

His forsaken cry come in here

Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

And following Jesus words of his being forsaken Isaiah shows a small moment here

Isaiah 54:7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.

And again, through wrath the land is darkened, he would darken it at noon, at the sixth hour darkness was over the whole land, wrath pertains to the darkening of the land even as it pertains to the hiding of his face (which can be done to a whole nation or a man alone)  and on the cross is shown a small moment of being forsaken.

Next verse in Isaiah

Isaiah 54:8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.

The verse before this one reads

Isaiah 54:9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.

Then taking the last two verses and show them by the apostles own words going forward

Start again, 

Isaiah 54:7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.

And this one again...

Isaiah 54:8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.

Which is speaking of Christ or in a way of being as gathered together in /through/by him also

Acts 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

Acts 13:35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Acts 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

Not sure there.

Good stuff.  You can also see Christ on the cross as an end point, and a new beginning.  For the Jews who rejected Christ a darkening of the mind, for the Gentiles a great Light.

14 hours ago, AFlameOfFire said:

What is your understanding on both the water and blood from his side. I mean we know that from the side of the first man (Adam) was made a woman from (his side) but when he was speared in the side the significance noted there pertained more to  "not a bone of him would be broken" and he was pierced in the side after he was dead already. Similarly a deep sleep was put on Adam before a bone (or rib/ or part) was taken out of the man to make a woman for him, and just as the LORD brought the woman to the man likewise no man can come to me except the Father who sent him draws him (and when he would be lifted up he would draw all men to him). There seems significance in that figure as well, just as it says that we are members of his flesh and bones right? So I was thinking, that piercing could also pertain to the bone of him not being broken as shown in the first man (Adam) the removing of a bone (a rib or part) to make a woman for the man. Shown in Christ where we are only given to see the blood and the water there (the opening of his side). Not that this is not significant in itself but when comparing between what is shown us before in the sides of both men, in the first (Adam, from the earth) and the Last man (Christ, Lord from heaven).

I find it hard to ask questions when thinking about these things though, because I am like, get to the point, what exactly are you asking here? And no real question emerges just a lot of how I am trying to catch a thing between this or that I guess.

The fun part is getting there too! So I can't complain. Perhaps I should ask how you might be catching these things as summed up in Christ. Because to me, on the one hand we have a picture that appears small as one man crucified, but on the other hand we know the sins of the world hang on that picture and we often are not fully aware of why the picture is shown in the way it is, broken down into those hours and significance of the darkness, his side, the blood and the water, the dividing of his garments into four parts etc. I believe they can be found and expounded upon to show the largeness of what happened on the cross also.

Take your time, no rush, God richly bless you

 

 

I see the water and the blood as the Testimony of Christ on earth.

Do you remember what caused Moses not to come into the promised land?

Moses smote the Rock twice, and did not give God the glory.

Exodus 17:6

Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.”

 

Much in the same way Israel smote the Lord “their Rock” and did not give Him the glory.  
 

But it is what came out of the Rock, that is that “spiritual” drink of “Living waters.”

 

Numbers 20:11

And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.

 

1 Corinthians 10:4

And did all drink the same “spiritual drink:” for they drank of that “spiritual Rock”that followed them: and “that Rock was Christ.”

 

Here is a post I made awhile back on discerning the body of Christ…

 

 

Jesus said in John 6:54-56

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.”

Jesus said in John 6:27 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.”

So what is the flesh and blood of Jesus that we are to eat?
 

Jesus said in John 6:32-33 “32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God “is he”which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.”

Jesus said in 
John 6:48 I am that bread of life.

So what is His flesh, and what is this bread of Life?

We are told in 1John 1:1 1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of “the Word of life;”

In John 1:14 we confirm what Jesus’flesh is when we are told that “the Word was “made flesh”

So it is “the words of God”we must consume like “spiritual food”for our soul.

But what about the blood of Jesus we are told to drink?

The blood of Jesus speaks….

Hebrews 12:24
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, “that speaketh”better things than that of Abel.

The blood of Jesus represents His Testimony….

Matthew 26:28
For this is “my blood”of the “new testament,” which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

This is how the blood of “His testimony”washes our insides clean…

John 15:3
Now ye are clean through “the word”which I have spoken unto you.”

Ephesians 5:26
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water “by the word,”

Both water and blood cleanse and testify ….
1 John 5:6
This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

1 John 5:8
And there are three that “bear witness”in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Both water and blood came out of Jesus’ side when pierced.

Consuming the flesh and blood of Jesus is how we truly “commune”with God by “the Spirit.”

Revelation 3:20

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

The flesh and blood of Jesus is both the law and the testimony of God, this law and testimony of Jesus Christ is “sealed in us”by the Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 8:16
Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

Isaiah 8:20

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
 

Peace and God bless.

[Stewardofthemystery]

On 11/10/2023 at 2:27 PM, AFlameOfFire said:

Deut 16:6 But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name (( in )) there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt.

The "at even" part is throwing me even with the sun being darkened at the sixth hour (or noon)

But the "AT the place" where he shall chose to place his name IN is where they shall sacrifice the passover

And Jesus sacrifice was AT  the place called Golgotha, right? that being interpreted as "the place of the skull". And his name pertains to our foreheads. I am not sure I pick this up again and again and am truly curious.  Because it signifies (to me) the very place wherein we were once his enemies also, which also pertains to "our minds" (in the place of our own skulls, so to speak). Even as to be carnally minded is called "death" (while we live) and we ourselves "pass over" (through Christ is our passover) from even this state of death we are in unto life by him. As to be "spiritually minded" in the same place aka (the place of the skull) is also called "life and peace". I believe a lot in that picture (fulfilled by Christ in the flesh) is also signified in spiritual truths written pertaining to these very things as they might relate to that places interpretation, "the place of the skull".

Well, you know what I mean, it pretty much screams, the skull, the mind (and the things pertaining to either mind) whether its to be carnally minded which is death (and where Christ died) and how we were enemies in our minds, etc. That, and then on the other side of the cross (in that same place) but through the veil of his flesh we are renewed in the spirit of our minds, given the mind of Christ, as his name is written in the forehead, even his laws are written in our minds. So through Christ (in the same place) we know to be spiritually minded is life and peace. So you have us (the old man) the carnally minded, enemies of God, his death (the place of the skull) which by him we are no more his enemies, we become by him spiritually minded, given the mind of Christ, and put on the new man. You probably get the gist of what I am saying. Seems to pull together both minds in the place of the skull, his sacrifice, his death and the name etc, but "at even" is just not hitting this thing home for me, but I still found it edifying regardless.

You did a really good job laying all of that out, that's not always easy to do. Thanks for sharing that it was an enjoyable read, our great God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ richly bless you!

 

 

Let me circle back to this question you had about “at evening” part of the Passover.

This is when they kept the Passover supper, as Jesus also did with his disciples “before” he was crucified.

Luke 22:15

And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:”

 

But there is an interesting “sign”shown in the eating of the flesh of the Passover lamb. None of it was to be left over until the morning….

 

Exodus 12:10

And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.”

 

Exodus 23:18

Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread; neither shall the fat of my sacrifice remain until the morning.”

 

Deuteronomy 16:4

And there shall be no leavened bread seen with thee in all thy coast seven days; neither shall there any thing of the flesh, which thou sacrificedst the first day at even, remain all night until the morning.”

 

What is interesting about this is, you can also see where the Lord warned about leaving the Manna from heaven until the next morning….

 

Exodus 16:19-20

King James Version

19 And Moses said, Let no man “leave of it till the morning.”

20 Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them.”

It is also written that those who ate of the sacrifice with leaven, or eating of  it and being “unclean,” that soul would be “cut off” from the congregation.

So to me the cross also signified a “cut off point”for many in Israel who rejected Jesus as the Christ.

Peace

 

 

 

 

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

14 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Good stuff.  You can also see Christ on the cross as an end point, and a new beginning.  For the Jews who rejected Christ a darkening of the mind, for the Gentiles a great Light.

That is perfectly put there, yes, centered on Christ and all that pours into the picture and what it encompasses

14 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

I see the water and the blood as the Testimony of Christ on earth.

Do you remember what caused Moses not to come into the promised land?

Moses smote the Rock twice, and did not give God the glory.

Exodus 17:6

Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.”

 

Much in the same way Israel smote the Lord “their Rock” and did not give Him the glory.  
 

But it is what came out of the Rock, that is that “spiritual” drink of “Living waters.”

 

Numbers 20:11

And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.

 

1 Corinthians 10:4

And did all drink the same “spiritual drink:” for they drank of that “spiritual Rock”that followed them: and “that Rock was Christ.”

 

Here is a post I made awhile back on discerning the body of Christ…

 

 

Jesus said in John 6:54-56

 

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.”

Jesus said in John 6:27 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.”

So what is the flesh and blood of Jesus that we are to eat?
 

Jesus said in John 6:32-33 “32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God “is he”which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.”

Jesus said in 
John 6:48 I am that bread of life.

So what is His flesh, and what is this bread of Life?

We are told in 1John 1:1 1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of “the Word of life;”

In John 1:14 we confirm what Jesus’flesh is when we are told that “the Word was “made flesh”

So it is “the words of God”we must consume like “spiritual food”for our soul.

But what about the blood of Jesus we are told to drink?

The blood of Jesus speaks….

Hebrews 12:24
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, “that speaketh”better things than that of Abel.

The blood of Jesus represents His Testimony….

Matthew 26:28
For this is “my blood”of the “new testament,” which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

This is how the blood of “His testimony”washes our insides clean…

John 15:3
Now ye are clean through “the word”which I have spoken unto you.”

Ephesians 5:26
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water “by the word,”

Both water and blood cleanse and testify ….
1 John 5:6
This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

1 John 5:8
And there are three that “bear witness”in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Both water and blood came out of Jesus’ side when pierced.

Consuming the flesh and blood of Jesus is how we truly “commune”with God by “the Spirit.”

Revelation 3:20

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

The flesh and blood of Jesus is both the law and the testimony of God, this law and testimony of Jesus Christ is “sealed in us”by the Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 8:16
Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

Isaiah 8:20

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
 

Peace and God bless.

This is wonderful, and how on earth could I even overlook the obvious with the rock that was struck? Like where is my head? Water from the Rock that was struck amen! And yes, they all did eat the same spiritual meat and  drink of that was spiritual drink from that spiritual Rock which was Christ.  Sometimes in thinking though various places I miss the obvious, and this is why I am glad for you, you have been so much of a help to me when I do that, thanks brother!

And you point out what I was looking at perfectly, because I love to see things wrapped up in Jesus Christ 
in these comparisons. Check this out, think there could be something in how these are laid out between them and the wording here? 

I had always wondered if there was anything in the wording "formed, made, and created" between these pictures

For example, "formed" here as it is shown in Adam

Formed/ dust of the ground/ flesh/living soul

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Then the woman and the word "made" as it pertains to him/ her and wherefrom

Made /from the bone in his flesh/ out of the side of Adam/ first man's flesh

Genesis 2:21-21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. (Adam calls her Eve)

Then the words, "created" as it pertains to them (together) mentioned also in the after part

Created/ their name (male and female) is Adam, in the day they were created

Genesis 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, 
in the day when they were created.

We have "formed" ground (living soul) "made" (woman from the side of man) and for the man and "created" under one name (His)

And then I noticed this (just in the pattern of things) to compare between

Psalm 103:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

Seems to show us three here, "created", "formed" and "made" a it mentions the same here in Isaiah

Isaiah 43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

And in trying to find the pattern in the new man we are created in Jesus Christ to be, of whom Adam was a figure.

And in this case the Church (or the woman) is called the pillar and "ground of" the truth also, and so instead of showing the first man being formed from the dust of the ground (and become a living soul) the last man (Jesus Christ) is formed in you (as Paul said)even as we are created in Christ (by his Spirit). You can sort of lose yourself in the wordings and comparison's, too many things added in and you cant see the forest through the trees, and I am really bad at showing things in my own words, only pointing the places out here.

You take Adam (formed from the dust of the ground) first man of the earth and then Jesus Christ (last man from heaven) who come in the flesh (but who is also "formed in" us). Between them it shows their sides opened, and we know that sleep and death can be used interchangably also when comparing

Adam's side (man of the earth)

Genesis 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof

Jesus side (man from heaven)

John 19:33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

And so it's "there" for me, even between these pictures that the two of the three that testify in the earth are shown "the blood and the water" and the Spirit is given when the last man, Jesus Christ (who was dead) and is now alive ascends and pours out the same on those who are his.

At first, for quite awhile I couldn't see how the two sides reconciled, I mean its obvious there is some sort of significance between  the sides of the two. From the one (first man) made is a woman from one part, which is the very rib/ bone/side of him, and we aren't really shown anything more. And then we come to Jesus Christ (last man) it shows two parts (not the rib or bone part) but the blood  and the water parts from his side. Which sides being opened in the first and then in the last man are a similar figure. There's one  in Adam (first man of the earth) showing only the rib /or bone part of him is taken out of his side (and is spoken for there) but in Jesus Christ (last man) we are shown the opening, and the two that testify on earth, which is blood and water from his side, and  yet that was done more specifically so that, 

John 19:36 "For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.

That one took me awhile in the comparison , because I was like, Adam/bone/rib and Christ/blood/water...?? How am I to catch this, and  yet in Jesus Christ (as it pertains to his body) it still about "a bone of" him there too, and that's just so awesome. The rib/ bone of  Adam is the woman (the old man is crucified with Christ) and the piercing of the lasts man's side (Jesus Christ) is where we can see  the two of the three that testify in the earth but this happening is also related to "a bone of" him (His body) and the same being not  broken, and Paul says, "For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones" Ephes 5:30 And For this cause shall a man leave 
his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. And Paul says, "This is a great mystery: but  I speak concerning Christ and the Church. Ephes 5:31-32

And so you can see the first and last man, their sides, God bring the woman to the man, and Christ telling us that no man can come to me unless the Father that sent him draws him.

I sat on that one for so long, until it clicked for me. And we are given to know that there are three that testify in the earth, and in the side of Jesus Christ are found the two (the blood and water) which pertains to the making of the woman for the man,  in Adam in his sleep, and the Church in Christ after his death (and resurrection) and its the Spirit testifies also. But its the way its worded there also when it says, " This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that bear witness, because the Spirit is truth" Which pertains to the way he "came by" more specifically. Like you catch one thing and another still escapes you its like playing whack a mole sometimes

Too wordy (I know, I know... there is just something wrong with me where brevity escapes me in the skills depart.) Thank you so much for your posts, they were so helpful to me, really appreciate your input

Our God richly bless you brother

Edited November 17, 2023 by AFlameOfFire
I cannot get the post to lay out correctly

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

12 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Let me circle back to this question you had about “at evening” part of the Passover.

This is when they kept the Passover supper, as Jesus also did with his disciples “before” he was crucified.

Luke 22:15

And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:”

 

But there is an interesting “sign”shown in the eating of the flesh of the Passover lamb. None of it was to be left over until the morning….

 

Exodus 12:10

And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.”

 

Exodus 23:18

Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread; neither shall the fat of my sacrifice remain until the morning.”

 

Deuteronomy 16:4

And there shall be no leavened bread seen with thee in all thy coast seven days; neither shall there any thing of the flesh, which thou sacrificedst the first day at even, remain all night until the morning.”

 

What is interesting about this is, you can also see where the Lord warned about leaving the Manna from heaven until the next morning….

 

Exodus 16:19-20

King James Version

19 And Moses said, Let no man “leave of it till the morning.”

20 Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them.”

It is also written that those who ate of the sacrifice with leaven, or eating of  it and being “unclean,” that soul would be “cut off” from the congregation.

So to me the cross also signified a “cut off point”for many in Israel who rejected Jesus as the Christ.

Peace

 

 

 

 

I honestly do not know, I see what you are pointing out, the morning verses the evening and have been looking at your post off and on  today because of that one verse that never leaves me alone (so I was hopeful when you came back around to it) and see what you had to say because you have some wonderful insights given to you and I appreciate them.

Then I thought, maybe I should just look at coming forth out of Egypt as it pertains to this evening sacrifice.

Deut 16:6 But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice 
the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt.

In 1 Cr 5:7 it says "For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us" and Paul brings up with it what you point out, the leaven in respect to the same since it even says here

Exodus 3:19 Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread

1 Cr 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover 
is sacrificed for us

What about just looking "at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt" in Deut 16:6 then move backward to the littler details tat drive me insane  because Jude mentions the same time an says, 

Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out
 of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

And also as it pertains to Christ as Moses had wrote of him it says similarly

Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; 
him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Acts 3:233 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

And we know where our Lord Jesus Christ was crucified is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt as mentioned here

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, 
where also our Lord was crucified.

So wouldn't "at the season" thou camest forth out of Egypt" be within that particular comparison?

Couldn't say for sure myself, just hitting and missing with it for now, I would think you would find its greater significance much faster than I ever could, you are far more familiar with these sorts of things than myself.

God richly bless you thank you for adding your insights

[Stewardofthemystery]

9 hours ago, AFlameOfFire said:

That is perfectly put there, yes, centered on Christ and all that pours into the picture and what it encompasses

This is wonderful, and how on earth could I even overlook the obvious with the rock that was struck? Like where is my head? Water from the Rock that was struck amen! And yes, they all did eat the same spiritual meat and  drink of that was spiritual drink from that spiritual Rock which was Christ.  Sometimes in thinking though various places I miss the obvious, and this is why I am glad for you, you have been so much of a help to me when I do that, thanks brother!

And you point out what I was looking at perfectly, because I love to see things wrapped up in Jesus Christ 
in these comparisons. Check this out, think there could be something in how these are laid out between them and the wording here? 

I had always wondered if there was anything in the wording "formed, made, and created" between these pictures

For example, "formed" here as it is shown in Adam

Formed/ dust of the ground/ flesh/living soul

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Then the woman and the word "made" as it pertains to him/ her and wherefrom

Made /from the bone in his flesh/ out of the side of Adam/ first man's flesh

Genesis 2:21-21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. (Adam calls her Eve)

Then the words, "created" as it pertains to them (together) mentioned also in the after part

Created/ their name (male and female) is Adam, in the day they were created

Genesis 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, 
in the day when they were created.

We have "formed" ground (living soul) "made" (woman from the side of man) and for the man and "created" under one name (His)

And then I noticed this (just in the pattern of things) to compare between

Psalm 103:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

Seems to show us three here, "created", "formed" and "made" a it mentions the same here in Isaiah

Isaiah 43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

And in trying to find the pattern in the new man we are created in Jesus Christ to be, of whom Adam was a figure.

And in this case the Church (or the woman) is called the pillar and "ground of" the truth also, and so instead of showing the first man being formed from the dust of the ground (and become a living soul) the last man (Jesus Christ) is formed in you (as Paul said)even as we are created in Christ (by his Spirit). You can sort of lose yourself in the wordings and comparison's, too many things added in and you cant see the forest through the trees, and I am really bad at showing things in my own words, only pointing the places out here.

You take Adam (formed from the dust of the ground) first man of the earth and then Jesus Christ (last man from heaven) who come in the flesh (but who is also "formed in" us). Between them it shows their sides opened, and we know that sleep and death can be used interchangably also when comparing

Adam's side (man of the earth)

Genesis 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof

Jesus side (man from heaven)

John 19:33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

And so it's "there" for me, even between these pictures that the two of the three that testify in the earth are shown "the blood and the water" and the Spirit is given when the last man, Jesus Christ (who was dead) and is now alive ascends and pours out the same on those who are his.

At first, for quite awhile I couldn't see how the two sides reconciled, I mean its obvious there is some sort of significance between  the sides of the two. From the one (first man) made is a woman from one part, which is the very rib/ bone/side of him, and we aren't really shown anything more. And then we come to Jesus Christ (last man) it shows two parts (not the rib or bone part) but the blood  and the water parts from his side. Which sides being opened in the first and then in the last man are a similar figure. There's one  in Adam (first man of the earth) showing only the rib /or bone part of him is taken out of his side (and is spoken for there) but in Jesus Christ (last man) we are shown the opening, and the two that testify on earth, which is blood and water from his side, and  yet that was done more specifically so that, 

John 19:36 "For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.

That one took me awhile in the comparison , because I was like, Adam/bone/rib and Christ/blood/water...?? How am I to catch this, and  yet in Jesus Christ (as it pertains to his body) it still about "a bone of" him there too, and that's just so awesome. The rib/ bone of  Adam is the woman (the old man is crucified with Christ) and the piercing of the lasts man's side (Jesus Christ) is where we can see  the two of the three that testify in the earth but this happening is also related to "a bone of" him (His body) and the same being not  broken, and Paul says, "For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones" Ephes 5:30 And For this cause shall a man leave 
his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. And Paul says, "This is a great mystery: but  I speak concerning Christ and the Church. Ephes 5:31-32

And so you can see the first and last man, their sides, God bring the woman to the man, and Christ telling us that no man can come to me unless the Father that sent him draws him.

I sat on that one for so long, until it clicked for me. And we are given to know that there are three that testify in the earth, and in the side of Jesus Christ are found the two (the blood and water) which pertains to the making of the woman for the man,  in Adam in his sleep, and the Church in Christ after his death (and resurrection) and its the Spirit testifies also. But its the way its worded there also when it says, " This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that bear witness, because the Spirit is truth" Which pertains to the way he "came by" more specifically. Like you catch one thing and another still escapes you its like playing whack a mole sometimes

Too wordy (I know, I know... there is just something wrong with me where brevity escapes me in the skills depart.) Thank you so much for your posts, they were so helpful to me, really appreciate your input

Our God richly bless you brother

When I think of the difference between that which is “formed” vs. that which is “created,” I think to create something it is to be made new.  

Whereas I think of something “formed”as being something “shapen” from that which was “already created.”

For instance, the earth was “created”by God, but man was “formed” from that which was “already created,”which would be the dust of the earth.

Look at the word formed….

Strong’s Definitions

יָצַר yâtsar, yaw-tsar'; probably identical with H3334 (through the squeezing into shape); (compare H3331); to mould into a form; especially as a potter; figuratively, to determine (i.e. form a resolution):—×earthen, fashion, form, frame, make(-r), potter, purpose.”

So to me man being “formed” from the “already created earth” is like clay being “shapen into a form.”

But to be made a “new creature”(creation) in Christ speaks of being made or created in the inward image of our Creator. 

Just like it is written God “created” man in His own image, speaking of the invisible image of God.  Even though God existed before man, God was not created like the earth, from which man was “formed”.

Hope that makes sense.  Peace

 

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

16 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

When I think of the difference between that which is “formed” vs. that which is “created,” I think to create something it is to be made new.  

Whereas I think of something “formed”as being something “shapen” from that which was “already created.”

For instance, the earth was “created”by God, but man was “formed” from that which was “already created,”which would be the dust of the earth.

Look at the word formed….

Strong’s Definitions

יָצַר yâtsar, yaw-tsar'; probably identical with H3334 (through the squeezing into shape); (compare H3331); to mould into a form; especially as a potter; figuratively, to determine (i.e. form a resolution):—×earthen, fashion, form, frame, make(-r), potter, purpose.”

So to me man being “formed” from the “already created earth” is like clay being “shapen into a form.”

But to be made a “new creature”(creation) in Christ speaks of being made or created in the inward image of our Creator. 

Just like it is written God “created” man in His own image, speaking of the invisible image of God.  Even though God existed before man, God was not created like the earth, from which man was “formed”.

Hope that makes sense.  Peace

 

Yeah it does make sense, either way from the dust of the actual earth or within one can be formed. Glad you brought that up because between the three "formed, made, and created" mentioned in Isaiah 43:7, and on the seventh day when God rested from all his work "formed" is left out.

For example

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work 
which God created and made.

Why mention both of those (created, ad made) without the other (formed)?

And if formed is left out purposely (since it either pertains to the flesh) seeing it is formed from the dust 
of the ground (of the man of the earth) or pertaining to the old man/ first man) as is shown us soon after in Adam, there would have to be some sort of significance in that somehow. Could it even pertain to what is crucified in Christ in the very foreknowledge of God there?

Because why go out of your way to say I have formed, made and created them/man  (which he did within the seven days) while resting on the seventh from his work and leave what out what is "formed" there as it pertains to man? I wouldn't have even asked this question at all if it weren't for Isaiah noting all three, so the prophet made a note of this. But I also wouldn't have looked at any of these had it not been written of the three that testify on the earth. Because that had me look to Christ's side, and then Adam's, then to the mystery of the man and the woman being Christ and the church (so on and so forth). You just notice things and see where they lead you.  

So if we set aside, the old man (Adam) or the "formed" from the dust of the ground part, since what is formed is not even mentioned on the finished work of  days (previously) could that be reckoned under the flesh profits nothing, or the doing away of the old man, or that which was crucified with Christ (before the foundation of the world) or the lesser significance of  the image of the earthly man/natural man in the removal (or lack of mention of it) there?  is less significant (according to it). It doesn't hurt to be curious and  look for a possible reason. Maybe what pertains to what is formed is set aside in some way there (that could make even better sense as to why elsewhere). Maybe "that part" pertains to what is crucified with Christ. And simply because from the making of the woman from the side of man (as a figure shown in Christ) pertains to the necessary parts of that which bears witness in the earth (the blood, and the water) and the third is the Spirit, and none of which is shown so much to be significant in Adam alone, or the flesh itself until Christ come in the flesh and we see these things in his flesh.

Just seeing how you can "roll with it" within the perimeters outlined for us.

The mystery between the man and woman pertains to Christ and the Church, and the old man appears to be taken out of the way for the new man we are made in Christ.

The new man is formed this way

The Church/woman becomes the pillar and "GROUND OF" the truth.

1 Ti 3:15... the church of the living God, the pillar and GROUND OF the truth.

WE are the dust of the ground the New man is "FORMED IN" this time around

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be "FORMED IN" you

Even as we are "CREATED IN" Christ

Ephes 2:10 For we are his workmanship, "CREATED IN" Christ Jesus unto good works, 
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
  

And also tells us (per the figure in Adam)

1 Cr 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; BUT the woman FOR the man.

So if Adam was a figure of him (Jesus/man from heaven) who was to come and so this would apply

Col 1:16  all things were created BY him, and FOR him

So the woman created FOR the man as would be shown in Christ, since we are created in Christ, in a comparable role

Shows the renewing of the "face of" the earth which comes by the sending forth of his spirit

Psalm 103:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou RENEWEST the face of the earth.

We also, are to

be RENEWED in the spirit of your mind Ephes 4:23

And put on Christ Gal:3:23

Even as it says,

Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him

Which again, is Jesus  Christ

Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ

Which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness

Ephes 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

It just seems more of a play between the figure of the first/old man Adam (formed from the ground) and the last/new man Jesus Christ who is formed in us (or the pillar and ground of him). That would pertain to the inward image anyway, because there's just no way if we were looking outwardly at each other that we would all appear to each other as the same in appearance as a "visible God because he is the "invisible God", because God is Spirit. Jesus is the image of Him who is unseen (in the flesh) He is the image (the expressed image) of the invisible (not visible)  God (in the expressed image of His person) as if you have seen/known me (in the flesh, not after the flesh) you have seen/known the Father). I agree, this would not  pertain to the things seen outward, as far as Christ's hair color, eye color, shape of  your nose etc. He appeared to them in another form also (shows they were still knowing him after the flesh there) Mark 16:12  and in Luke 24:16 but to be fair their eyes were holden so that they should not know him (Luke 24:16) They only knew him after the flesh until given the ability to perceive him according to the Spirit 

2 Cr 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh,  yet now henceforth know we him no more.

  These are just things I consider,  not anything more then catching some similarities that I am curious about and grow over time and change over time but always fun to feed my curiosity as far as how little details just might apply if I look a but more closely, but which end up training you to look more closely all the time because there always seems to be something more to find which may often enhance the bigger picture (which we already know and acknowledge).

I was going to make this short, but that was apparently a big fail

God bless you brother, peace

Edited November 18, 2023 by AFlameOfFire
typo

[Truswell]

On 11/10/2023 at 3:26 PM, Stewardofthemystery said:

It is written … “For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things”

In Matthew 5:18 we read; “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till “all be fulfilled.”

We know for a fact that heaven and earth has not passed away just yet, so what is Jesus saying here?  

Many claim the law is made void by grace and faith, and is totally done away with; but Jesus tells us different above.

Even Paul said in Romans 3:31; “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Paul also said in Romans 8:4 that the righteousness of the law would be "fulfilled" in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Notice in the above Jesus said that all the law would be "fulfilled." Meaning the law is also “prophetic.”Just as Jesus said in Matthew 11:13 that all the prophets and "the law prophesied" all the way up till John the Baptist.  

This thread is not a debate over whether or not we are saved by our own works of the law; because I know by the Truth we are saved by Grace through faith. But the main point of this thread is to show others that there are actually 2 laws at work; one which is natural or carnal, the other which is spiritual.

How one "sees" them is determined by 2 separate mindsets; one which is carnally minded, and the other which is spiritually minded. The flesh of the law ( or the carnal ordinances) was fulfilled for us and nailed to the cross in Jesus’ own body, in His own flesh.
 

But "the Spirit" of the law remains and is "established" in those who are born again of God’s Spirit. Just as it is written in Hebrews 10:9; “Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He takes away the first, that he may establish the second.”

I have written several posts in the past about this natural law, vs. the "spiritual law" (which shall be "fulfilled" before heaven and earth pass) but very few truly understand what it is I am saying, as I know it is hard to grasp.  

So instead of me trying to explain to you what I mean by the natural law (outward ordinances) and the "spiritual law" (or prophecy ) I will just give you a few examples we are already given in scripture.

I will give the carnal commandment first (natural law), and then I’ll give the spiritual law (prophecy) and the fulfillment of it, as it is also already revealed to us in scripture.  

In Hebrews 10:1 we are told; the law was a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of those things. In this we see the natural (letter of the law) was given as a sign, or “shadow,” and many of the carnal ordinances were just a reflection of the true "spiritual" imagery to come; which would also be "fulfilled" as Jesus said.

Just as the Lord also told the children of Israel that many of the commandments, statutes, and judgments would be for a "sign" between the Lord and them. 

Deuteronomy 6:8; “And thou shalt bind them for a "sign" upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.” And even the Sabbaths were given as a "sign" as seen here in Ezekiel 20:12; “Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a "sign" between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.”

With that in mind let me try to show you what I mean by the natural law being transformed into the "spiritual law" of prophecy, or viewed "spiritually" by the mind of the Spirit as “prophecy.”

The first "sign" we will look at is the sign of the Covenant God made with Abraham and to his seed, 
which as the Lord also told Abraham would be a token (sign) in his flesh by way of the outward circumcision.  

Genesis 17:10; “This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.”
And then we see "the sign" also confirmed here in Romans 4:11; “And he received “the sign”of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:”

And now here we see the true spiritual meaning of that natural "sign" being fulfilled in us spiritually.  Romans 2:29; “But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of “the heart, in the spirit,”and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”  

So we see the commandment was first received outwardly as a "sign", only later to be understood and fulfilled “spiritually,” and received inwardly by the seal of the Spirit.

Just as it is written in 2 Corinthians 3:3; “Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Here’s another example most already know, but it speaks of the same, and of how the natural (letter of the law) was just a reflection of the greater glory to come spiritually.

  Exodus 12:21; “Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.”  

And then the spiritual fulfillment in the Lamb of God  1 Corinthians 5:7; “Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:”

And again the carnal commandment in the feast of unleavened bread Exodus 13:3;“And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place: there shall no leavened bread be eaten.”

And then the spiritual fulfillment in Matthew 16:6; “Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of “the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.”

Matthew 16:11; “How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Matthew 16:12; “Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of “the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.”

And again the carnal commandment in the first ripe of the first fruits of the harvest, first seen in the natural law in Exodus 23:19; “The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God…”

And then the spiritual fulfillment of the law in 1 Corinthians 15:20; “But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.  James 1:18; “Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.”

And again first the carnal commandment in Leviticus 23:15; “And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths 
shall be complete: Leviticus 23:16; “Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.”

And then the spiritual fulfillment of the natural law at Pentecost (50 days)  Acts 2:1; “And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.”

And again the carnal command in the "new meat" offering (=Gentiles) Numbers 28:26;“Also in the day of the firstfruits, when ye bring “a new meat offering”unto the LORD, after your weeks be out, ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work:”

And then the spiritual "new meat" offering revealed to us by Paul in Romans 15:16; “That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that "the offering up of the Gentiles" might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.”

So by those few examples we see by scripture that the carnal commandment (letter of the law) was just “a shadow”of the greater glory to later be revealed, and fulfilled in a new spiritual way.

But make no mistake, all of that hidden spiritual law has not yet been "fulfilled", and will not all be fulfilled until the first heaven and earth pass away as Jesus said. And with that understanding, perhaps one would even look closer at the old natural letter of the law in “a new and spiritual way” by the revelation of the Holy Spirit and by the mind of Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:7-8; “ But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:8 How shall not “the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?”

It is the veil of the flesh and the carnal mind that keeps a man from seeing the true "spiritual law" of God.  Romans 7:14; “For we know that “the law is spiritual:”but I am carnal, sold under sin.”  

The enmity between the mind of the flesh and the mind of the Spirit must first be abolished in order to see and hear what the Spirit is saying in the natural law.

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;”  

Hebrews 9:10“Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until “the time of reformation.”

But even those carnal ordinances that were to be removed symbolized other greater spiritual things.

For the carnal mind only sees with the eyes of flesh (outwardly by appearance) but the mind of the Spirit searches the deep things of God and sees with the mind of Christ.
 

So do not judge the natural law by outward appearances, but search the hidden treasures found in it by the mind of the Spirit. 

John 7:24 “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”

Peace and God bless

The coming of Jesus was prophesied in Old Testament law, and after Jesus came, died and rose again, the law had been fulfilled and the veil torn in two, so all may enter into the presence of God. Those who do are no longer under law, but under grace. 

(I am sorry, A Flame of Fire. I meant to put the above in a separate post. What you say is excellent. God bless.)

 

 

.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Truswell

[Stewardofthemystery]

13 hours ago, AFlameOfFire said:

Yeah it does make sense, either way from the dust of the actual earth or within one can be formed. Glad you brought that up because between the three "formed, made, and created" mentioned in Isaiah 43:7, and on the seventh day when God rested from all his work "formed" is left out.

For example

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work 
which God created and made.

Why mention both of those (created, ad made) without the other (formed)?

And if formed is left out purposely (since it either pertains to the flesh) seeing it is formed from the dust 
of the ground (of the man of the earth) or pertaining to the old man/ first man) as is shown us soon after in Adam, there would have to be some sort of significance in that somehow. Could it even pertain to what is crucified in Christ in the very foreknowledge of God there?

Because why go out of your way to say I have formed, made and created them/man  (which he did within the seven days) while resting on the seventh from his work and leave what out what is "formed" there as it pertains to man? I wouldn't have even asked this question at all if it weren't for Isaiah noting all three, so the prophet made a note of this. But I also wouldn't have looked at any of these had it not been written of the three that testify on the earth. Because that had me look to Christ's side, and then Adam's, then to the mystery of the man and the woman being Christ and the church (so on and so forth). You just notice things and see where they lead you.  

So if we set aside, the old man (Adam) or the "formed" from the dust of the ground part, since what is formed is not even mentioned on the finished work of  days (previously) could that be reckoned under the flesh profits nothing, or the doing away of the old man, or that which was crucified with Christ (before the foundation of the world) or the lesser significance of  the image of the earthly man/natural man in the removal (or lack of mention of it) there?  is less significant (according to it). It doesn't hurt to be curious and  look for a possible reason. Maybe what pertains to what is formed is set aside in some way there (that could make even better sense as to why elsewhere). Maybe "that part" pertains to what is crucified with Christ. And simply because from the making of the woman from the side of man (as a figure shown in Christ) pertains to the necessary parts of that which bears witness in the earth (the blood, and the water) and the third is the Spirit, and none of which is shown so much to be significant in Adam alone, or the flesh itself until Christ come in the flesh and we see these things in his flesh.

Just seeing how you can "roll with it" within the perimeters outlined for us.

The mystery between the man and woman pertains to Christ and the Church, and the old man appears to be taken out of the way for the new man we are made in Christ.

The new man is formed this way

The Church/woman becomes the pillar and "GROUND OF" the truth.

1 Ti 3:15... the church of the living God, the pillar and GROUND OF the truth.

WE are the dust of the ground the New man is "FORMED IN" this time around

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be "FORMED IN" you

Even as we are "CREATED IN" Christ

Ephes 2:10 For we are his workmanship, "CREATED IN" Christ Jesus unto good works, 
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
  

And also tells us (per the figure in Adam)

1 Cr 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; BUT the woman FOR the man.

So if Adam was a figure of him (Jesus/man from heaven) who was to come and so this would apply

Col 1:16  all things were created BY him, and FOR him

So the woman created FOR the man as would be shown in Christ, since we are created in Christ, in a comparable role

Shows the renewing of the "face of" the earth which comes by the sending forth of his spirit

Psalm 103:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou RENEWEST the face of the earth.

We also, are to

be RENEWED in the spirit of your mind Ephes 4:23

And put on Christ Gal:3:23

Even as it says,

Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him

Which again, is Jesus  Christ

Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ

Which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness

Ephes 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

It just seems more of a play between the figure of the first/old man Adam (formed from the ground) and the last/new man Jesus Christ who is formed in us (or the pillar and ground of him). That would pertain to the inward image anyway, because there's just no way if we were looking outwardly at each other that we would all appear to each other as the same in appearance as a "visible God because he is the "invisible God", because God is Spirit. Jesus is the image of Him who is unseen (in the flesh) He is the image (the expressed image) of the invisible (not visible)  God (in the expressed image of His person) as if you have seen/known me (in the flesh, not after the flesh) you have seen/known the Father). I agree, this would not  pertain to the things seen outward, as far as Christ's hair color, eye color, shape of  your nose etc. He appeared to them in another form also (shows they were still knowing him after the flesh there) Mark 16:12  and in Luke 24:16 but to be fair their eyes were holden so that they should not know him (Luke 24:16) They only knew him after the flesh until given the ability to perceive him according to the Spirit 

2 Cr 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh,  yet now henceforth know we him no more.

  These are just things I consider,  not anything more then catching some similarities that I am curious about and grow over time and change over time but always fun to feed my curiosity as far as how little details just might apply if I look a but more closely, but which end up training you to look more closely all the time because there always seems to be something more to find which may often enhance the bigger picture (which we already know and acknowledge).

I was going to make this short, but that was apparently a big fail

God bless you brother, peace

I never put much thought into the words, formed, made, or created but it is interesting how they are all used.

Many years ago I did see some sort of a connection between the rib of Adam and the piercing of Jesus’ side, although by scripture it is hard comparison to make.

But no doubt there is a connection between Adam and his wife, and Christ and the Church.

Peace

[Stewardofthemystery]

3 hours ago, Truswell said:

The coming of Jesus was prophesied in Old Testament law, and after Jesus came, died and rose again, the law had been fulfilled and the veil torn in two, so all may enter into the presence of God. Those who do are no longer under law, but under grace. 

(I am sorry, A Flame of Fire. I meant to put the above in a separate post. What you say is excellent. God bless.)

 

 

.

The parts of the law and prophets “concerning Jesus” first coming are fulfilled.

Luke 24:44

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, “concerning me.”

 

But that does not mean “all prophecy” contained in the law and prophets has already been fulfilled.

 

Matthew 5:18

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earthpass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, “till all be fulfilled.”