Eating Unclean Food Is an Abomination to the Lord!

[Retrobyter]

On 11/19/2023 at 2:52 PM, AFlameOfFire said:

So here is my question though, does that which count as your sabbath days always land on the Gregorian calendar day Saturday for example?  Given the leap years and all of that sort of thing? For example, if you say the day to rest is Saturday (not Sunday) for example, isn't that still within the whole Gregorian calendar days that were brought in around the 1500's? Or does that not effect where the first and seventh day lands within that same calendar used today? I mean how do we know the Wednesday isn't really the first day of the week but we count it according to the Gregorian calendar as mid week, see what I am asking? 

And if Abraham had two wives representing two covenants why would the one representing the Jerusalem that then was be the one cast out (which is the one which observed these things)?

Shalom, AFlameOfFire.

Bro. Tan's chronology is mostly correct. The Jewish year is based upon the sun and the spring equinox, but months were true "moon-ths." That is, they were based upon the 29.5-day lunar cycle; so that, every other month would be 29 days and the others would be 30 days long. 29 - 30 - 29 - 30 - 29 - ...

Thus, every month began with a "new moon"; that is a day or two after the time when the moon is between the earth and the sun, when they could first see the sliver of the crescent moon in the early evening. Twelve of those months is 12 months x 29.5 days / month = 354 days, which is shorter than the yearly cycle of 365.2421 days / year by 11.2421 days. So, roughly every third year, another month - a second Adar - would be added.

Because it's imprecise, occasionally a day would have to be added to a month, and occasionally, TWO months would have to be added to a year's time to catch up the solar cycle and the lunar cycles together. Generally speaking, this creates a 13-year cycle, like the eight white keys and the five black keys on a piano.

The Hebrew day always begins at sundown with the sighting of the first three stars. "And the evening and the morning were the first day."

From Egyptian influence in reading the sundial, and dividing the daylight hours and the nighttime hours into twelve hours each (at spring and fall equinoxes), the middle of the day is 12:00 noon. By dividing the 24 hours, from noon to noon, midnight was chosen as the division between days. Now, we count the beginning of the day as 12:00 a.m. and noon is considered 12:00 p.m., although technically, noon is neither a.m. (ante meridiem = before the meridian) nor p.m. (post meridiem = after the meridian), and midnight is both 12:00 a.m. (12 hours before the meridian) and 12:00 p.m. (12 hours after the meridian).

The one thing that hasn't changed is the numbering of the days of the week: The first day of the week is always a Saturday night/Sunday. The seventh day of the week - the Shabbat or "Sabbath," is always a Friday night/Saturday. That has NEVER changed since Creation.

When the Julian calendar was adopted, the Roman names for months were added.

They also began their year at the spring equinox, so the first month was ...

Martius for Mars (March)
Aprilis for the "opening" of buds (April)
Maius for Maia (May)
Junius for Juno (June)
Quintilis (5th month), which was later changed for Julius Caesar (July)
Sextilis (6th month), which was later changed for Augustus Caesar (August)
September (7th month)
October (8th month)
November (9th month)
December (10th month)
Januarius for Janus (January) (Added later)
Februarius for Februa (a spring-cleaning festival, February) (Added later)
 

The Teutonic and Norse mythology was later responsible for some of the names of the days of the week, with the rest coming from Greek/Roman mythology. Thus, we get ...

SUN'S-day --> Sunday
MOON'S-day --> Monday
MARS' (TYR'S)-day --> Tuesday
MERCURY'S (ODIN'S or WODEN'S)-day --> Wednesday
JUPITER'S (THOR'S)-day --> Thursday
VENUS' (FRIA'S)-day --> Friday, and
SATURN'S-day --> Saturday

 

Later in noticing how the Julian calendar was throwing things off after some years had gone by, the calendar was changed to the Gregorian calendar system, named for Pope Gregory XIII in 1582 A.D., which tends to be a solar calendar with leap years when a day is added to make periodic corrections.

As an old-school computer programmer in multiple languages, I was a chronologist during the years leading up to the Year-2000 Scare, and in the years after, as the systems we created were tested rigorously. Being a perfectionist (of sorts), I programmed my subroutines with all possibilities for a leap-day being added in a leap-year. Perhaps it was a bit of an overkill, but my subroutines will last for at least 4,000 years by adding just a couple of lines of code more than "needed." Of course, the computers have grown beyond the needs for stand-alone programs, and whole systems of programs are now called "apps" and are on our phones!

And, I'll just say one more thing: The 360-day "prophetic" year that some use in their prophecy calculations is a FARCE! There's no such thing in prophecy, in Hebrew chronology, or in the actual workings of the sun and moon with their relationships to the earth! It's also wrong to make every month 30 days long! NO calendar does that.

[choir loft]

A LOT of really long pointless quotations here...

According to Torah, the LAW, could YOU, dear reader, buy a cheese burger from McDonald's on a Saturday?

According to the LAW, which many posters claim to know, the answer is an emphatic no.

Can you tell us why?   By the LAW, why?

According to St. Paul a Christian might want to refrain from doing so.  Why?

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

[FJK]

30 minutes ago, choir loft said:

According to Torah, the LAW, could YOU, dear reader, buy a cheese burger from McDonald's on a Saturday?

Of course not, engaging in commercial activity on the Sabbath is forbidden, that is not in accord with keeping it Holy.

FWIW, boiling a young goat in its mother's milk was a practice of the Canaanites as a sacrifice to their pagan gods and is forbidden for that reason.   Jewish Rabbi's distorted that into not eating meat and dairy together which flouts the meaning of that law and establishes it as a simple Jewish custom that is not really founded in law.

[Retrobyter]

2 minutes ago, choir loft said:

A LOT of really long pointless quotations here...

According to Torah, the LAW, could YOU, dear reader, buy a cheese burger from McDonald's on a Saturday?

According to the LAW, which many posters claim to know, the answer is an emphatic no.

Can you tell us why?   By the LAW, why?

According to St. Paul a Christian might want to refrain from doing so.  Why?

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Shalom, choir loft.

That's NOT a "Law"; that's a "Phariseeism," to coin a word. The LAW states,

Exodus 23:19 (KJV)

19 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

He said it THREE TIMES:

Exodus 34:26 (KJV)

26 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

Deuteronomy 14:21 (KJV) 

21 Ye shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

The PRINCIPLE is this: "To seethe" means "to cook by boiling." It's a HEARTLESS ACT to take the baby's own mother's milk and boil the baby goat in it! It's shameful and repulsive! It's just plain wicked. This principle was applicable ANY day of the week, not just on Shabbat!

So, the principle was EXTENDED to doing the same with a calf in his mother's milk. Over time and with a LOT of "reasoning" and "justification," the P'ruwshiym (Pharisees) EXTENDED this to serving ANY dairy product with meat from ANY domesticated mammal, even if the server didn't know where the milk for the dairy product (such as cheese) came from or whether the hamburger was ground from the meat of a calf or a full grown steer or some other domesticated animal! It's OVERKILL, which was TYPICAL from the P'ruwshiym! And, kosher Rabbis have extended this practice to modern Judaism. Therefore, it's not kosher (clean) to eat a cheeseburger.

That's from where the "Law" comes! However, it's been SO "extended" and "overembelished," that it doesn't even RESEMBLE the original commandment, and the REASON for its existence is all but lost on people today! It's just a tradition.

BUT, is it now God's Law or is it MAN'S Tradition?

Regarding St. Paul's instruction, here's the story:

Acts 15:1-35 (KJV)

1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said,

"Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved."

2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. 

3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren. 4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.

5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying,

"That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."

6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them,

"Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 

10 "Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they."

12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying,

"Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14 Simeon (Simon Peter) hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 "'After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called,' saith the Lord, 'who doeth all these things. 18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.' 

19 "Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day."

22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren: 23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner;

"The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: 24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, 'Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law': to whom we gave no such commandment: 25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29 That ye abstain ...
(1) from meats offered to idols,
(2) and from blood,
(3) and from things strangled,
(4) and from fornication:
from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."

30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle: 31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation. 32 And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them. 33 And after they had tarried there a space, they were let go in peace from the brethren unto the apostles. 34 Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still. 35 Paul also and Barnabas continued in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also.

Then later, Paul said to the believers at Korinth,

1 Corinthians 8:1-13 (KJV)

1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. 2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. 3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. 8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse. 9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. 10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; 11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. 13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

Notice, here, that this is talking about "making a brother to offend," that is, "making a brother OFFEND - making him SIN!" It's not just "offending a brother," as though hurting the brother's feelings!  One who has so offended, has become an offender! His conscience was weak, still thinking there was some "god" to which a person could offer meat as a sacrifice.

Those who have been around for a while KNOW that there is only ONE God, and idols are just hunks of wood, rock, or metal which have NO power or ability to move! However, if one is still thinking of the idol as a "god," then it would be wrong for that person to eat the meat sacrificed to idols.

We who are stronger, knowing that idols are nothing, can safely eat the meat that was sacrificed to those hunks of wood, rock, or metal. HOWEVER, for the sake of the weaker brother, we should hold back from eating that meat offered to idols  so that the weaker brother, feeling bold, would go ahead and eat the meat, going against his conscience, and sinning in the process, because he still felt as though the idol was a god with some power of its own! But, the LORD God (YHWH Adonay) shares His power with NO ONE, and there is NO OTHER GOD but Him!

Paul's conclusion was, "If meat makes my brother sin, I will eat no such meat while the world stands, lest I make my brother sin."

In a similar fashion, one might embolden his brother "to commit a sin" if he still thinks "it's a sin to eat meat and dairy products at the same time," but those who understand the PURPOSE for the commandment know that the sin is in the HEARTLESSNESS, the LACK OF COMPASSION, not the eating!

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, AFlameOfFire.

Bro. Tan's chronology is mostly correct. The Jewish year is based upon the sun and the spring equinox, but months were true "moon-ths." That is, they were based upon the 29.5-day lunar cycle; so that, every other month would be 29 days and the others would be 30 days long. 29 - 30 - 29 - 30 - 29 - ...

Thus, every month began with a "new moon"; that is a day or two after the time when the moon is between the earth and the sun, when they could first see the sliver of the crescent moon in the early evening. Twelve of those months is 12 months x 29.5 days / month = 354 days, which is shorter than the yearly cycle of 365.2421 days / year by 11.2421 days. So, roughly every third year, another month - a second Adar - would be added.

Because it's imprecise, occasionally a day would have to be added to a month, and occasionally, TWO months would have to be added to a year's time to catch up the solar cycle and the lunar cycles together. Generally speaking, this creates a 13-year cycle, like the eight white keys and the five black keys on a piano.

The Hebrew day always begins at sundown with the sighting of the first three stars. "And the evening and the morning were the first day."

From Egyptian influence in reading the sundial, and dividing the daylight hours and the nighttime hours into twelve hours each (at spring and fall equinoxes), the middle of the day is 12:00 noon. By dividing the 24 hours, from noon to noon, midnight was chosen as the division between days. Now, we count the beginning of the day as 12:00 a.m. and noon is considered 12:00 p.m., although technically, noon is neither a.m. (ante meridiem = before the meridian) nor p.m. (post meridiem = after the meridian), and midnight is both 12:00 a.m. (12 hours before the meridian) and 12:00 p.m. (12 hours after the meridian).

The one thing that hasn't changed is the numbering of the days of the week: The first day of the week is always a Saturday night/Sunday. The seventh day of the week - the Shabbat or "Sabbath," is always a Friday night/Saturday. That has NEVER changed since Creation.

When the Julian calendar was adopted, the Roman names for months were added.

They also began their year at the spring equinox, so the first month was ...

Martius for Mars (March)
Aprilis for the "opening" of buds (April)
Maius for Maia (May)
Junius for Juno (June)
Quintilis (5th month), which was later changed for Julius Caesar (July)
Sextilis (6th month), which was later changed for Augustus Caesar (August)
September (7th month)
October (8th month)
November (9th month)
December (10th month)
Januarius for Janus (January) (Added later)
Februarius for Februa (a spring-cleaning festival, February) (Added later)
 

The Teutonic and Norse mythology was later responsible for some of the names of the days of the week, with the rest coming from Greek/Roman mythology. Thus, we get ...

SUN'S-day --> Sunday
MOON'S-day --> Monday
MARS' (TYR'S)-day --> Tuesday
MERCURY'S (ODIN'S or WODEN'S)-day --> Wednesday
JUPITER'S (THOR'S)-day --> Thursday
VENUS' (FRIA'S)-day --> Friday, and
SATURN'S-day --> Saturday

 

Later in noticing how the Julian calendar was throwing things off after some years had gone by, the calendar was changed to the Gregorian calendar system, named for Pope Gregory XIII in 1582 A.D., which tends to be a solar calendar with leap years when a day is added to make periodic corrections.

As an old-school computer programmer in multiple languages, I was a chronologist during the years leading up to the Year-2000 Scare, and in the years after, as the systems we created were tested rigorously. Being a perfectionist (of sorts), I programmed my subroutines with all possibilities for a leap-day being added in a leap-year. Perhaps it was a bit of an overkill, but my subroutines will last for at least 4,000 years by adding just a couple of lines of code more than "needed." Of course, the computers have grown beyond the needs for stand-alone programs, and whole systems of programs are now called "apps" and are on our phones!

And, I'll just say one more thing: The 360-day "prophetic" year that some use in their prophecy calculations is a FARCE! There's no such thing in prophecy, in Hebrew chronology, or in the actual workings of the sun and moon with their relationships to the earth! It's also wrong to make every month 30 days long! NO calendar does that.

Thank you for all that information Retrobyter, Calendars are just not my thing, anything with numbers at all really, basic math for that matter (thank God for the calculator) I would need help with anything days when it comes to counting anything.

So its good to hear a few opinions on these.  

[Logostician]

Matthew 15:11

Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

3 hours ago, Slibhin said:

You are completely incorrect. There is no evidence that this was a Canaanite practice nor a practice of any pagans.

The reason is because G-d forbids animal cruelty, plain and simple. Cooking an animal in it's own mothers milk is is extremely ghoulish and cruel. The reason we don't mix is to avoid accidentally breaking this law. G-d hates animal cruelty so much that avoiding it is one of the Noahide laws that even non-Jews are required to adhere to.

 

How on earth is there ever enough mothers milk to even boil a young goat in? 

Who would even think to do that?

Just the possibility that the thought to do such a thing would enter into anyone's mind (at all) seems so strange (and such a remote thing) that to leave instructions not to do this is even written at all.

I mean if someone can milk a mother goat for days in order to set aside enough to cook a young goat in I guess someone "could" but its almost a strange instruction, and by that I mean its like leaving an instruction that says, don't push a lit cigarette up your nose or something like that.  I just  read it on one level and think, who on earth would need to be instructed not to do this?? and I would think it would be especially heartless and cruel if someone with the disposition of that guy in that movie  "Silence of the lambs" would premeditate something like that while the young goat was actually alive (and not slain beforehand).

Its almost like that law there was made for such people (insane) because I cannot believe sane people would actually do that.

But I would think there should be more instruction like that, like don't fry up eggs with chicken or add sour cream to your beef stroganoff, or use milk in sausage and biscuits things like that.

Nix that last one since sausage...well... you know

[The_Patriot21]

I don't really see any moral problem with boiling a goat in goats milk. Seriously...we drink it, we turn it into cheese, but we can't boil an animal in it? Nothing ghoulish about it. Mama goat will never know, and the goat your eating is to dead to care.

Now practically, it seems a lot of work and a lot of waste. That's a lot of goats milk for one...and what do you do with the milk once your done? If you just poor it out that seems wasteful. If you find some use for it...

Well, still to much work. Personally I don't like most of my meat boiled anyway.

Ive never tried domestic goats (though I've had goat cheese, yum yum) but I do hunt pronghorn antelope which are basically a wild goat. I turn most of that into jerky. Grind it up, mix it up with a heavy mixture of sportsman's warehouses 3 pepper blend, mix in about a cup or two of apple flavored crown royal, them into the dehydrator for several hours. Comes out tasting like a little piece of heaven.

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

11 minutes ago, The_Patriot21 said:

I don't really see any moral problem with boiling a goat in goats milk.

In its OWN MOTHERS milk

Like if it was the law against certain canabalistic things lets say, and it was lawful to eat your wife for dinner and the child for dinner, and you (for that matter). And you could drink the mothers milk and boil it if you like, BUT just don't boil the child in its own mother's milk.

Sounds reasonable to me and really creepy to know anyone that would literally premeditate boiling a child in its own mothers milk. It just has that insane "Silence of the lamb's" vibe to it

 

 

[The_Patriot21]

1 hour ago, AFlameOfFire said:

In its OWN MOTHERS milk

Like if it was the law against certain canabalistic things lets say, and it was lawful to eat your wife for dinner and the child for dinner, and you (for that matter). And you could drink the mothers milk and boil it if you like, BUT just don't boil the child in its own mother's milk.

Sounds reasonable to me and really creepy to know anyone that would literally premeditate boiling a child in its own mothers milk. It just has that insane "Silence of the lamb's" vibe to it

 

 

You act like the goat is a sentient animal.

It's not. It's a goat. 

And it's milk.