Mr. M Posted December 5, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 743 Topics Per Day: 1.36 Content Count: 3,893 Content Per Day: 7.10 Reputation: 1,797 Days Won: 12 Joined: 10/28/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1956 Share Posted December 5, 2023 (edited) People often speculate on whom the beast may be, even referring to him as "the antichrist", in spite of the fact that title is used by John to address a spirit that will rise up in many teaching a false gospel. For example, during WWII, some speculated that Hitler was the antichrist, and in the present "an antichrist", and yet he was a man of destruction only. Daniel 8: 23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. 24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practice, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. 25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. While he comes as a destroyer, you will know him by the prosperity and security he brings to the world by making war seem like an improbability. By this he stands against the Prince of Peace, by ushering in a false peace. In this shall you know him. Revelation 13: 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?” 5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given to him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. How then does someone usher in Peace, and make war with the saints? As the saints only prosper in their testimony, they can be overcome by a time honored element of warfare...propaganda, or a false gospel. On the other hand, if you believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, why would you even speculate on the identity and nature of the beast, if you will not ever see him? Why would the saints be warned as to how to rightly identify him, such that they would remain unmoved by a deception that could even lead astray the elect? Matthew 24: 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. Edited December 21, 2023 by Mr. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewardofthemystery Posted December 5, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 969 Content Per Day: 2.93 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/02/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted December 5, 2023 Do you know how “it” destroys in a time of peace and prosperity? It is by making people believe in his lies. Daniel 8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and “it cast down the truth to the ground;”and it practised, and prospered. Proverbs 18:21 Death and life are in “the power of the tongue:” and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1to3 Posted December 5, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 139 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,228 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 3,076 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 5, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. M Posted December 5, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 743 Topics Per Day: 1.36 Content Count: 3,893 Content Per Day: 7.10 Reputation: 1,797 Days Won: 12 Joined: 10/28/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1956 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 49 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said: Do you know how “it” destroys in a time of peace and prosperity? It is by making people believe in his lies. Agreed. And I did make that point. 5 hours ago, Mr. M said: How then does someone usher in Peace, and make war with the saints? As the saints only prosper in their testimony, they can be overcome by a time honored element of warfare...propaganda, or a false gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptWalker Posted December 21, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 440 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/20/1970 Share Posted December 21, 2023 I do believe he will bring about world unity and peace at least in the beginning. The only thing that confuses me is Revelation-13:6 and Daniel-11:37 and how he could get away with speaking such things against God and exalting himself ABOVE ALL gods and religious figures, if in fact he is playing the role of some kind of beautiful Messiah figure himself for all religions/peoples? Many believe he will literally be claiming to be Jesus incarnate according to 2Thess.-2:4. But something about him will make the world love and worship him so maybe he will just be a very smooth talker and when he "blasphemes" God in heaven it will be in such a way that will sound like he is justified in saying such things and not as an evil person/ruler would say it. Much the same way political/social and religious leaders of the past and present are able to be so convincing, due to there CHARISMA. I believe the word for such people is "luminaries" which is very fitting since it is basically what Lucifer means...bearer or bringer of LIGHT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted December 21, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,119 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted December 21, 2023 On 12/5/2023 at 8:51 AM, Mr. M said: 25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. While he comes as a destroyer, you will know him by the prosperity and security he brings to the world by making war seem like an improbability. By this he stands against the Prince of Peace, by ushering in a false peace. In this shall you know him. You are making a presumptive leap by equating the "sar-sarim/prince of princes" with the Sar-Shalom/Prince of Peace. Because " in Daniel 10:13 and 12:1, the pre-incarnate Christ tells us that "the אחד/first/foremost of the ancestral sarim” [Heb. אַחַד הַשָּׂרִים הָרִאשֹׁנִים] is the archangel Michael, who is “the great sar, the one standing over your people [Israel].” " https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1575-daniel-924-27-examined-part-2-daniel-8ʼs-original-vision-of-“the-pesharebellion”-of-the-jews/ " Daniel 8:23 defines the very era of the 2300-day abasement of Jerusalemʼs Temple: “in the latter part/time of their [the Greek] kingdom.” By 168 B.C., only the significantly-diminished Seleucid and Ptolemaic kingdoms remained out of Alexanderʼs once vast empire. Therefore, the “fierce king” and ha-poshim/“the rebelling ones” of verse 23 can only be Antiochus Epiphanes and the Jewish apostates, respectively. All of the verses from 8:23-28 prophesy about the qualities and acts of Antiochus: they do not prophesy about OUR times. " https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1576-part-2-conclusion/ For a lo-o-ong time now, Christian theologians have been injecting their own presumptions into the prophetic texts, which presumptions have now been accepted as standard dogma. But no surprise, because the same was happening at the end of the Mosaic Age 2000 years ago, which is why the teachings of Jesus caused the teachers of that day so much grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. M Posted December 21, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 743 Topics Per Day: 1.36 Content Count: 3,893 Content Per Day: 7.10 Reputation: 1,797 Days Won: 12 Joined: 10/28/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1956 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 44 minutes ago, WilliamL said: You are making a presumptive leap by equating the "sar-sarim/prince of princes" with the Sar-Shalom/Prince of Peace. I did not equate them. I said he stands in clear opposition to Him. 45 minutes ago, WilliamL said: For a lo-o-ong time now, Christian theologians have been injecting their own presumptions into the prophetic texts Not me man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted December 21, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,119 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted December 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, Mr. M said: 53 minutes ago, WilliamL said: You are making a presumptive leap by equating the "sar-sarim/prince of princes" with the Sar-Shalom/Prince of Peace. I did not equate them. I said he stands in clear opposition to Him. You did. But apparently you did not understand my response. On 12/5/2023 at 8:51 AM, Mr. M said: 25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. While he comes as a destroyer, you will know him by the prosperity and security he brings to the world by making war seem like an improbability. By this he stands against the Prince of Peace, by ushering in a false peace. In this shall you know him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. M Posted December 21, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 743 Topics Per Day: 1.36 Content Count: 3,893 Content Per Day: 7.10 Reputation: 1,797 Days Won: 12 Joined: 10/28/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1956 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, WilliamL said: But apparently you did not understand my response Does that require me to make a presumptive leap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. M Posted December 21, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 743 Topics Per Day: 1.36 Content Count: 3,893 Content Per Day: 7.10 Reputation: 1,797 Days Won: 12 Joined: 10/28/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1956 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 7 minutes ago, WilliamL said: But apparently you did not understand my response. I will give that a more thorough review, though. Thanks Didn't mean to reply so hastily, I just don't get the need to mention Christian theologians in the response. I don't know any that would acknowledge or associate with me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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