Antichrist being revealed even today

[douggg]

31 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

I would ask that you study Daniel 7. It reveals the coming of the little horn and the coming of the 10 horns (which will be symbolized as 10 kings when they get to the top of the 4th kingdom beast (all in 7). The 4th kingdom is symbolized as an indescribable beast (pagan Rome). And out of pagan Rome comes the 10 horns (first), then we see the little horn come out from pagan Rome after the 10 horns. 

Charlie, the little horn person of Daniel 7 is the same little horn person of Daniel 8.    And in Daniel 8:17, the little horn person and his transgression of desolation in Danel 8:12-13 is time of the end - not 3rd or 4th century.

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, douggg said:

Charlie, the little horn person of Daniel 7 is the same little horn person of Daniel 8.    And in Daniel 8:17, the little horn person and his transgression of desolation in Danel 8:12-13 is time of the end - not 3rd or 4th century.

I agree with you that the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8 are the same person. He comes out of the pagan Roman 4th beast kingdom. That kingdom was slain and its body was destroyed in 467 AD. This was the beginning of the 4th beast kingdom of papal Rome. So, he arrived on the scene after the cross (first shown as coming out of the 4th beast), and later, sitting atop the 4th beast kingdom (papal Rome. 

Verse 8:12 speaks to the transgression of the Jews for their rejection of their Messiah. As a result of that, God would give the little horn (papacy / papal Rome) an army. This is not a military army but an army of followers that would oppose the daily sacrifice and throw truth to the ground. This means that when the papacy came to power they would corrupt God’s Word (His 10 commandments), and oppose the daily sacrifice- this meant he would acknowledge the cross but would claim salvation would have to come through THEIR church. They would claim divinity and equality with God. That His sacrifice was not enough to get to heaven. 

Verse 8:13 has two components: the first part how long will the vision be concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of desolation - this is answered in 8:14 - 2300 days. This speaks when the sanctuary will be cleansed. It will be cleansed after the cross and Jesus returns the His Father. These 2300 days took place during the last week or 7 years of Daniel’s prophecy. Not an end time event. 
 

The second half of 8:13 speaks the host (Jewish leadership of the Sanctuary) and the actual Sanctuary to he trampled underfoot. This meant that after the cross and the Jews rejection of their Messiah, the physical Sanctuary would eventually be destroyed and the powers / obligations / privileges / honors / prestige, etc., would eventually be taken from the Jews and the papacy would appropriate their responsibilities- they would design their own set of ceremonies/ rituals / practices that were performed by the “hosts” within the Levitical laws. 
 

So all of these took place as a result of the cross - not end time events. 

[douggg]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

Verse 8:12 speaks to the transgression of the Jews for their rejection of their Messiah.

verse 8:11 says the stopping of the daily sacrifice will be by the little horn, not the Jews.  And the pope was not around at the time of Christ to stop the daily sacrifice, so it is not speaking about the pope either.

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

Magnifying himself even to the prince of the host, and stopping the daily sacrifice, and committing the transgression of desolation will be the act in 2Thessalonians2:4 of the Antichrist going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieve God-hood... at the time of the end.

The transgression of desolation act by the little horn has not taken place yet.

 

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

These 2300 days took place during the last week or 7 years of Daniel’s prophecy. Not an end time event. 

But the 2300 days associated with little horn's transgression of desolation are time of the end according to the text of Daniel 8:17.    

Charlie, you are trying to put something into the past that still has not happened yet.

You are trying place the transgression of desolation in Daniel 8:12 on the Jews.   But it is by the little horn person, not the Jews.    And none of what you wrote is time of the end.

-----------------

The little horn person is time of the end.

The transgression of desolation is time of the end.

The 2300 days are time of the end

-----------------

The fourth beast is not "pagan" Rome - but the Roman Empire.  None of the three previous beasts believed in God either.   But no-one calls them pagan Babylon, pagan Medo-Persian, pagan Greece.

The four beast kingdoms are:

Babylonian empire

Medo-Persian empire

Greek empire

Roman Empire. 

a. ancient                                                                                                                 

b. end times

You are delineating along the wrong line concerning the Roman Empire, as all of the previous kingdoms were also "pagan". 

There is the ancient Roman Empire of Jesus's first coming.   And there is the end times Roman empire, manifested as the EU, at the time of Jesus's second coming.

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by douggg

[douggg]

On 12/23/2023 at 10:09 AM, Mike Mclees said:

I do not follow after Christian politics or Christians seeking political positions, but still Iam not blind. Christian nationalists are praying for a dictator to be our president. 

Aside from this a ten nation coalition has been formed to guard shipping in the Red Sea. This has been mentioned on the evening news.

The United States has announced a 10-nation coalition dubbed “Operation Prosperity Guardian” to combat the increasing number of Houthi missile and drone attacks on ships transiting the Red Sea.

Revelation 17: 10-13 says that ten nations will give their power over to the antichrist. All these things are happening now before our very eyes.

 

Mike, the ten kings do not give their kingdom oven to the person until he has become the beast.

Revelation 17:17    For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.   

We are not at that stage yet, because the ten kings rule with the beast for one hour, Revelation 17:12.  The one hour is the 42 months of Revelation 13:1 when the ten horns (the ten kings) have their crowns.

But the formation of the group of ten kings is probably close at hand.  The group has to be established so that the little horn person can become over it. 

Look for that group to emerge out of the EU.    The Roman Empire manifested in the end times.

Revelation 17:10, the 7 kings are kings of the Julio-Claudian bloodline.

1. Julius Caesar

2. Augustus

3. Tiberius

4. Caligula

5. Claudius

6. Nero (historically, the last of the Julio Claudians)

7. little horn person, leader of the EU ten kings.

a. then as the prince who shall come into the middle east following Gog/Magog event

b. then as the King of Israel, perceived messiah by the Jews... i.e. as the Antichrist

c. then as the revealed man of sin

d. then as the beast

8. the beast (the little horn person after he is killed and comes back to life as the beast-king, which the EU ten kings will rule with him for 42 months.)

----------------------------------

The person has to be a Jew and somewhere in his bloodline be descended from the Julio-Claudians.    Or it could be that he just takes the title of Caesar when the EU ten hand the EU over to him to be dictator of it.

He has to be a Jew in order to be anointed the King of Israel, perceived messiah by the Jews, to become the Antichrist.

---------------------------

Little horn - the role of being the leader over the group of ten EU leaders (before the 7 years begin).

Antichrist - the role of being the King of Israel, perceived messiah to the Jews (for most of the first half of the 7 years).

Beast - the role of being the dictator of the EU for 42 months (of the second half of the 7 years).   The ten EU leaders will rule with him.

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by douggg

[Stewardofthemystery]

On 12/23/2023 at 10:09 AM, Mike Mclees said:

I do not follow after Christian politics or Christians seeking political positions, but still Iam not blind. Christian nationalists are praying for a dictator to be our president. 

Aside from this a ten nation coalition has been formed to guard shipping in the Red Sea. This has been mentioned on the evening news.

The United States has announced a 10-nation coalition dubbed “Operation Prosperity Guardian” to combat the increasing number of Houthi missile and drone attacks on ships transiting the Red Sea.

Revelation 17: 10-13 says that ten nations will give their power over to the antichrist. All these things are happening now before our very eyes.

 

When it comes to the antichrist spirit, many are confused because they cannot see the forest all around them because they are looking for a single tree.😊

[Mike Mclees]

2 hours ago, douggg said:

Mike, the ten kings do not give their kingdom oven to the person until he has become the beast.

Revelation 17:17    For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.   

We are not at that stage yet, because the ten kings rule with the beast for one hour, Revelation 17:12.  The one hour is the 42 months of Revelation 13:1 when the ten horns (the ten kings) have their crowns.

But the formation of the group of ten kings is probably close at hand.  The group has to be established so that the little horn person can become over it. 

Look for that group to emerge out of the EU.    The Roman Empire manifested in the end times.

Revelation 17:10, the 7 kings are kings of the Julio-Claudian bloodline.

1. Julius Caesar

2. Augustus

3. Tiberius

4. Caligula

5. Claudius

6. Nero (historically, the last of the Julio Claudians)

7. little horn person, leader of the EU ten kings.

a. then as the prince who shall come into the middle east following Gog/Magog event

b. then as the King of Israel, perceived messiah by the Jews... i.e. as the Antichrist

c. then as the revealed man of sin

d. then as the beast

8. the beast (the little horn person after he is killed and comes back to life as the beast-king, which the EU ten kings will rule with him for 42 months.)

----------------------------------

The person has to be a Jew and somewhere in his bloodline be descended from the Julio-Claudians.    Or it could be that he just takes the title of Caesar when the EU ten hand the EU over to him to be dictator of it.

He has to be a Jew in order to be anointed the King of Israel, perceived messiah by the Jews, to become the Antichrist.

---------------------------

Little horn - the role of being the leader over the group of ten EU leaders (before the 7 years begin).

Antichrist - the role of being the King of Israel, perceived messiah to the Jews (for most of the first half of the 7 years).

Beast - the role of being the dictator of the EU for 42 months (of the second half of the 7 years).   The ten EU leaders will rule with him.

 

 

 

I believe most of what you say except for the antichrist being a Jew .  I strongly believe he is amongst our US presidential runners.  Depending on how long the Israel war is the peace signing will tell us. It is the US that has established the 10 nation coalition. I cannot see the US giving its power to an Israeli. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Mike Mclees

[Stewardofthemystery]

26 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

I do not follow after Christian politics or Christians seeking political positions, but still Iam not blind. Christian nationalists are praying for a dictator to be our president.  

I strongly believe he is amongst our US presidential runners.  

But yet you think Donald Trump is the Antichrist?  Lol 😂 

More liberal leftist propaganda being spread by the frogs 🐸 

[Mike Mclees]

9 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

But yet you think Donald Trump is the Antichrist?  Lol 😂 

More liberal leftist propaganda being spread by the frogs 🐸 

Now did I say that? 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Mike Mclees

[Stewardofthemystery]

41 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

Now did I say that? 

It’s not that hard to read between the lines. 😊

[douggg]

6 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

I believe most of what you say except for the antichrist being a Jew .  I strongly believe he is amongst our US presidential runners.  Depending on how long the Israel war is the peace signing will tell us. It is the US that has established the 10 nation coalition. I cannot see the US giving its power to an Israeli. 

Mike, the premise that the Antichrist must be a Jew comes from the concept of what "Christ" means.   Allow me to connect the dots.

 

1.  "Christ" is a word based on Greek for messiah.

John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

 

2.  Christ = messiah = anointed.     In biblical background in the history of Israel, the kings and priests were considered anointeds.    "the" messiah is the one special anointed to lead Israel and the world into the messianic age of peace and safety.    He must be descended from King David.

The Jews (Judaism) believe that about "the" messiah.    They are looking for that person.

 

3.  In Matthew and Mark, "Christ" is associated with being that promised King of Israel.

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

Matthew 25:42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

Matthew 25:22 Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified.

4.  In John 5:43, Jesus (paraphrased) said that the Jews would reject him at their King but would receive another as their King... coming in his own name.   Meaning someone that God did not send to be their king.

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

5. "Anti", the prefix can mean either, or, or both - "instead of, against".    In the case of the AntiChrist that person will be instead of Jesus (the rightful King of Israel messiah) and also against Jesus, the Son of God.

-----------------------------------------

So when all those things are put together, the person has to be a Jew - someone the Jews would be willing to think that he is their King of Israel messiah.

A couple of characteristics the Jews are looking for in the person (from Judaism101 site) is that...

1. he has to be great politician.

2. he has to have military ability - to fight the battles of God in defending Israel.

Right now there is a such a person who I am keeping an eye on - Zelensky, a Jew, of Ukraine.    Not for certain yet.    But some things are starting to add up.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by douggg