Good Map And Interesting Chart To Compare Material Churches With Time Periods

[Michael37]

Apart from the ads, this site from which this map and chart were sourced, is likeable though not necessarily agreeable to all: Understanding the 7 Churches of Revelation (liftable.com)

 

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

I've seen that in many books too. There is an alternate interpretation that the 7 churches also are representative of the 7 "types" of churches that have existed to this day. 

[Michael37]

6 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

I've seen that in many books too. There is an alternate interpretation that the 7 churches also are representative of the 7 "types" of churches that have existed to this day. 

Yes, I've heard that in sermons and read up on it.

However, my observation is that pretty much all of the features and characteristics, and then some, are found in association with Christian-related organisations. The chart supplied indicates a belief that currently "the church" has only Laodicean characteristics, to which I disagree. 

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, Michael37 said:

Yes, I've heard that in sermons and read up on it.

However, my observation is that pretty much all of the features and characteristics, and then some, are found in association with Christian-related organisations. The chart supplied indicates a belief that currently "the church" has only Laodicean characteristics, to which I disagree. 

The Chart is good for instruction. I would recommend it to Bible students. I am also familiar with the time frame theory and believe that it has some merit. But the opposers will point out that Christ promises His coming to the last four Churches. That puts them (the four) existing at the end of the age. But there is half an argument against this. In Revelation 1:1 we are told that God would show things by "signs" in this Book. I think the idea that they were seven actual Churches AND represent all Churches then and today, AND treat them as belonging to a time frame could be valid. We learn from John 20:30-31 that "signs" are to provoke faith more than lay forth doctrine which needs plain and accurate language.

Danger in this view comes from another angle. There is a dire warning about adding to this Book. Maybe we should err on the side of not adding.

But honestly, I think that Laodicea fits today perfectly.

[WilliamL]

20 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I am also familiar with the time frame theory and believe that it has some merit. But the opposers will point out that Christ promises His coming to the last four Churches. That puts them (the four) existing at the end of the age. But there is half an argument against this. In Revelation 1:1 we are told that God would show things by "signs" in this Book. I think the idea that they were seven actual Churches AND represent all Churches then and today, AND treat them as belonging to a time frame could be valid.

From a recent blog:

Jesus told one of these churches that if it failed to do righteous works, He would “remove your lampstand [church] from its place.” 2:5 And over the course of time, all of these seven churches of Asia Minor were eventually removed: none exist today. However, the angels of these churches, the “seven stars in His right hand,” could never be taken out of His hand: they therefore remained to continue their work elsewhere in the earth. These spiritual authorities thereafter established seven characteristic types of churches over seven periods of Church history. ...

In the first century A.D., Jesus sent out seven spirits upon the earth to establish seven characteristic church types. The seventh and last church type was originally called the Laodicean church. Most notable among its characteristics were that it was wealthy, but lukewarm in its works of righteousness. Rev. 3:15-17 Such things, of course, are seen in the greater part of the modern Church, particularly in the United States, the world’s leading Christian nation. (In appearance, at least.)

Jesus’ last message to those “who overcome” in this church – and His last message to the whole Church Age – was,

Revelation 3:18 “I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire…and white garments…and eye salve, that you may see.”

Gold represents gifts of the Spirit; white garments, righteous works (19:8), and eye salve, ability to attain spiritual wisdom and understanding. The purchase price for these things is our time and our labor in the Lord’s Word and work.

Immediately “after these things” of this materially-wealthy but spiritually-unprofitable church of Revelation 3, there will come the events of Revelation 4:1 and following, wherein God’s throne of judgment is set in place, being surrounded by the 24 Elders. We can reasonably conclude that those things are near to come, because this latter-day church has been corrupting itself and diminishing before our eyes.

But even so, Jesus infers that out of this church, a select group of overcomers will arise and mature on earth.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2946-the-24-elders-of-revelation-part-2-the-time-of-their-appearance/

All seven stars in Christ's right hand are still at work, so all seven types of churches exist today. However, the predominant one is, of course, of the Laodicean type.

[Michael37]

9 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

In the first century A.D., Jesus sent out seven spirits upon the earth to establish seven characteristic church types. The seventh and last church type was originally called the Laodicean church. Most notable among its characteristics were that it was wealthy, but lukewarm in its works of righteousness. Rev. 3:15-17 Such things, of course, are seen in the greater part of the modern Church, particularly in the United States, the world’s leading Christian nation. (In appearance, at least.)

The idea being promoted here is that the seven churches, whether the original material ones, or the supposed abstract ones, are the result of seven spirits being sent out by Jesus to make them so. That is at odds with His desire for them to repent and overcome.

[AdHoc]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

From a recent blog:

Jesus told one of these churches that if it failed to do righteous works, He would “remove your lampstand [church] from its place.” 2:5 And over the course of time, all of these seven churches of Asia Minor were eventually removed: none exist today. However, the angels of these churches, the “seven stars in His right hand,” could never be taken out of His hand: they therefore remained to continue their work elsewhere in the earth. These spiritual authorities thereafter established seven characteristic types of churches over seven periods of Church history. ...

In the first century A.D., Jesus sent out seven spirits upon the earth to establish seven characteristic church types. The seventh and last church type was originally called the Laodicean church. Most notable among its characteristics were that it was wealthy, but lukewarm in its works of righteousness. Rev. 3:15-17 Such things, of course, are seen in the greater part of the modern Church, particularly in the United States, the world’s leading Christian nation. (In appearance, at least.)

Jesus’ last message to those “who overcome” in this church – and His last message to the whole Church Age – was,

Revelation 3:18 “I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire…and white garments…and eye salve, that you may see.”

Gold represents gifts of the Spirit; white garments, righteous works (19:8), and eye salve, ability to attain spiritual wisdom and understanding. The purchase price for these things is our time and our labor in the Lord’s Word and work.

Immediately “after these things” of this materially-wealthy but spiritually-unprofitable church of Revelation 3, there will come the events of Revelation 4:1 and following, wherein God’s throne of judgment is set in place, being surrounded by the 24 Elders. We can reasonably conclude that those things are near to come, because this latter-day church has been corrupting itself and diminishing before our eyes.

But even so, Jesus infers that out of this church, a select group of overcomers will arise and mature on earth.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2946-the-24-elders-of-revelation-part-2-the-time-of-their-appearance/

All seven stars in Christ's right hand are still at work, so all seven types of churches exist today. However, the predominant one is, of course, of the Laodicean type.

I hear you, but I just don't find evidence for the dates given. Also, if one does even a cursory study of Philadelphia's time, one discovers the most "un-brotherly" activities worldwide. My wife reads extensively on the missionary work, especially in China, and she says that it was riddled with contention, back-stabbing and divisions. In many students' estimation the foremost Christian move was the Brethren. But just look at their record of "brotherly love".

I might have missed something, but I would say that the evidence does not exclude such a belief, but it is also not convincing. By the way, for a while I did hold this view, so it's not that I absolutely deny it. It is just that the evidence stops short of convincing - for me.

[WilliamL]

21 hours ago, Michael37 said:

The idea being promoted here is that the seven churches, whether the original material ones, or the supposed abstract ones, are the result of seven spirits being sent out by Jesus to make them so. That is at odds with His desire for them to repent and overcome.

I disagree. For the same reason that Christ preached a pure Gospel, but that doesn't mean that men could not corrupt His teachings. So the same with the leadership of these spirits.