We in this world are "outside the camp" (the outer court) and the "host" to be trodden under foot of the Gentiles.

[Shilohsfoal]

19 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Jesus was not crucified “inside” Jerusalem….

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which (((spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt,)))where also our Lord was crucified.

Hebrews 13:12-14

King James Version

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered (((without the gate.)))

13 Let us go forth therefore unto him (((without the camp,)))bearing his reproach.

14 For here have we no continuing city,(Jerusalem) but we seek one to come.(New Jerusalem)

 

You believe our Lord was crucified in Egypt?

I'm pretty sure the city of Jerusalem is where the dead bodies of the two witnesses will be laying in the streets.

 

 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

 

I'm sure their dead bodies will be laying in the streets of Jerusalem while their enemies gloat over them.

 

⁹ And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

¹⁰ And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

 

 

After 3.5 days they will ascend into heaven from Jerusalem in a cloud.Same hour a great earthquake rattles Jerusalem.

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Stewardofthemystery]

23 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

You believe our Lord was crucified in Egypt?

I'm pretty sure the city of Jerusalem is where the dead bodies of the two witnesses will be laying in the streets.

 

 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

 

I'm sure their dead bodies will be laying in the streets of Jerusalem while their enemies gloat over them.

 

⁹ And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

¹⁰ And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

 

 

After 3.5 days they will ascend into heaven from Jerusalem in a cloud.Same hour a great earthquake rattles Jerusalem.

 

The keys words here are “spiritually is called” …which (((spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt,)))

 

1 Corinthians 2:14

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are (((spiritually discerned.)))

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Just now, Stewardofthemystery said:

The keys words here are “spiritually is called” …which (((spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt,)))

 

1 Corinthians 2:14

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are (((spiritually discerned.)))

 

Yes, Jerusalem is spiritually called sodom and Egypt.

 

Being a natural man ,I felt you might have had a hard time understanding that.

 

And after 3.5 days of laying dead in the street of Jerusalem where our Lord was crucified, they will then ascend up into heaven in a cloud.

 

Let's be clear that the city of Jerusalem has grown quite a bit larger than it was 2000 years ago .

[Stewardofthemystery]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Yes, Jerusalem is spiritually called sodom and Egypt.

 

Being a natural man ,I felt you might have had a hard time understanding that.

 

And after 3.5 days of laying dead in the street of Jerusalem where our Lord was crucified, they will then ascend up into heaven in a cloud.

 

Let's be clear that the city of Jerusalem has grown quite a bit larger than it was 2000 years ago .

Nope, it was “the people” of, not the brick and mortar city.

Back to square one…

Jesus was not crucified “inside” Jerusalem….

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which (((spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt,)))where also our Lord was crucified.

Hebrews 13:12-14

King James Version

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered (((without the gate.)))

13 Let us go forth therefore unto him (((without the camp,)))bearing his reproach.

14 For here have we no continuing city,(Jerusalem) but we seek one to come.(New Jerusalem)

Here is why the Lamb of God was not killed “inside the city gates”of Jerusalem…

Deuteronomy 16:5

Thou mayest ((not))sacrifice the passover ((within))any of thy gates, which the Lord thy God giveth thee:

 

 

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Here is a mystery….Who is it that kills the saints/ prophets of God who are born of the Spirit?

Do cities kill the saints/prophets of God, or is it “the people”who are “of” that city?

Who persecutes and kills the saints/prophets of God?

Answer…..

Galatians 4:22-31

King James Version

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the (((one by a bondmaid,))) the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after (((the flesh;)))but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth (((to bondage,))) which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth (((to Jerusalem which now is,))) and is “in bondage”with her children. ( bondage of sin)

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after (((the flesh)))persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is (((now.)))

30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out (((the bondwoman and her son:)))for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31 So then, brethren, we are not (((children of the bondwoman))), but of the free.”

All those who are “of”the world are also born “of the flesh”and are “of” the bondwoman=earthly Jerusalem.

It is the children “of the flesh” that “persecute and kill”the holy saints and prophets of God, starting with Cain killing his righteous brother Abel.

[Shilohsfoal]

12 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Here is a mystery….Who is it that kills the saints/ prophets of God who are born of the Spirit?

Do cities kill the saints/prophets of God, or is it “the people”who are “of” that city?

Who persecutes and kills the saints/prophets of God?

Answer…..

Galatians 4:22-31

King James Version

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the (((one by a bondmaid,))) the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after (((the flesh;)))but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth (((to bondage,))) which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth (((to Jerusalem which now is,))) and is “in bondage”with her children. ( bondage of sin)

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after (((the flesh)))persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is (((now.)))

30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out (((the bondwoman and her son:)))for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31 So then, brethren, we are not (((children of the bondwoman))), but of the free.”

All those who are “of”the world are also born “of the flesh”and are “of” the bondwoman=earthly Jerusalem.

It is the children “of the flesh” that “persecute and kill”the holy saints and prophets of God, starting with Cain killing his righteous brother Abel.

So you believe the two witnesses will lay dead in the streets of what you call people in the city of Jerusalem?

 

⁸ And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

 

You believe those two prophets will just be laying dead all over everyone in Jerusalem.

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Nope, it was “the people” of, not the brick and mortar city.

Back to square one…

 

Jesus was not crucified “inside” Jerusalem….

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which (((spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt,)))where also our Lord was crucified.

Hebrews 13:12-14

King James Version

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered (((without the gate.)))

13 Let us go forth therefore unto him (((without the camp,)))bearing his reproach.

14 For here have we no continuing city,(Jerusalem) but we seek one to come.(New Jerusalem)

Here is why the Lamb of God was not killed “inside the city gates”of Jerusalem…

Deuteronomy 16:5

Thou mayest ((not))sacrifice the passover ((within))any of thy gates, which the Lord thy God giveth thee:

 

 

 

Again

Jerusalem is not the same size as it was 2000 years ago.

Jerusalem 2000 years ago was .35 square miles.

Jerusalem today is 49 square miles.

 

The place where Jesus died is well within the great city of Jerusalem today.

If you found the exact spot where Jesus was crucified today ,you would be standing in Jerusalem.Not outside of Jerusalem

 

[R. Hartono]

On 12/27/2023 at 1:05 AM, Stewardofthemystery said:

In Revelation 11:2 we see the mention of the “outer court” that is given to the Gentiles, and how they would “trample under foot” the “holy city” for 42 months. Many think this prophecy is speaking only of a “natural place” like a natural brick and mortar city, and this time is to be discerned “naturally.” But that is because the “natural man” only knows what he knows “naturally” and in those things he corrupts himself.

 

The proper interpretation of God’s words belongs to God, and to those whom the Lord reveals these things to by way His Holy Spirit.  We are told in scripture that the earthly tabernacle and temple design was to be a “shadow of things to come” but not the very image of those things, and how the earthly design was just a pattern of the heavenly (Hebrews 8:5, Hebrews 9:23)  

 

And we are told that God does not dwell in temples made by the hands of man.(Acts 17:24)  And we know by the words of the holy apostles that God is building a spiritual house in the heavens, and that is also where we see His throne, His temple, and His altar, where there would be better “spiritual” sacrifices. (1Peter 2:5)

 

So if the “inner courts” of the former earthly tabernacle/temple design were just figures and patterns of the heavenly, then what does the “outer court” represent?  We in this present physical world are “outside” of the spiritual heavenly camp, as there is a great divide between the two that no “flesh” or “unclean thing” may enter.  Paul said let us go “outside the camp” bearing his reproach, just as Jesus also suffered “outside the city gate” (Hebrews 13:13) But those who are born again of the Spirit have “access to the Father in heaven” by the blood of Christ  being of this royal priesthood.(Ephesians 2:18) And we who are of this anointed priesthood can also make spiritual sacrifices and offerings on this heavenly altar (Hebrews 13:10) with “better sacrifices”.

 

In the law those sacrifices who were to be offered up to the Lord, first had their “flesh removed” and all the dung removed, and these were to be burned “outside the camp”.(Exodus 29:14, Hebrews 13:11)  Just as we in this world are told to “put off” the body of sin and to “put to death” the deeds of the flesh. (Col. 2:11) The insides of the animal were to be cleaned with pure water before being offered up to the Lord.(Leviticus 1:9)  This signifies the washing of our hearts and minds by the words of God. (John5:3, Ephesians 5:26) Then we in turn present ourselves a “living sacrifice” being offered up holy and without spot, or without the blemish of sin.(Romans 12:1)

 

The “outer court” in the temple design was given for those who were yet “unclean”, or yet being “uncircumcised” by the Spirit being yet “Gentiles”.  These who were “unclean spiritually” were not allowed access to the “inner court” of Israel, as it was only for those who had already been “purified.”  In spiritual terms it is much the same way, but on a much larger scale.  As the “outer court” that is given to “the Gentiles” is referring to this present earth/world; and the “inner courts” are referring to the heavenly.  Just as Jesus said, God’s will be done on earth, as it is in Heaven.  The heavenly camp has already been purified, and all the evil doers cast out; as was the case with Satan and all his host of evil angels who were cast out of heaven with him down to the earth.(Rev.12:9)

 

Also the “holy city” that is presently being “trodden under foot” not only represents the earthly sanctuary, but also “the host” which represents Gods people who belong to the “earthly Jerusalem”; who are still “in bondage to sin” as Paul spoke in the allegory. (Galatians 4:25)

 

The “host” being “trampled under foot” was prophesied here…Daniel 8:13 by reason of transgression=sin

 

Both God’s people (the daily sacrifice) and God’s words were prophesied to be cast to the ground and be trodden under foot of the Gentiles….(Daniel 8:12, Hebrews 10:29)

Imho Rev 11:2 speaks about the 3rd temple that shall be built in Jerusalem for the abomination of desolation.

[Charlie744]

On 12/26/2023 at 11:05 AM, Stewardofthemystery said:

In Revelation 11:2 we see the mention of the “outer court” that is given to the Gentiles, and how they would “trample under foot” the “holy city” for 42 months. Many think this prophecy is speaking only of a “natural place” like a natural brick and mortar city, and this time is to be discerned “naturally.” But that is because the “natural man” only knows what he knows “naturally” and in those things he corrupts himself.

 

The proper interpretation of God’s words belongs to God, and to those whom the Lord reveals these things to by way His Holy Spirit.  We are told in scripture that the earthly tabernacle and temple design was to be a “shadow of things to come” but not the very image of those things, and how the earthly design was just a pattern of the heavenly (Hebrews 8:5, Hebrews 9:23)  

 

And we are told that God does not dwell in temples made by the hands of man.(Acts 17:24)  And we know by the words of the holy apostles that God is building a spiritual house in the heavens, and that is also where we see His throne, His temple, and His altar, where there would be better “spiritual” sacrifices. (1Peter 2:5)

 

So if the “inner courts” of the former earthly tabernacle/temple design were just figures and patterns of the heavenly, then what does the “outer court” represent?  We in this present physical world are “outside” of the spiritual heavenly camp, as there is a great divide between the two that no “flesh” or “unclean thing” may enter.  Paul said let us go “outside the camp” bearing his reproach, just as Jesus also suffered “outside the city gate” (Hebrews 13:13) But those who are born again of the Spirit have “access to the Father in heaven” by the blood of Christ  being of this royal priesthood.(Ephesians 2:18) And we who are of this anointed priesthood can also make spiritual sacrifices and offerings on this heavenly altar (Hebrews 13:10) with “better sacrifices”.

 

In the law those sacrifices who were to be offered up to the Lord, first had their “flesh removed” and all the dung removed, and these were to be burned “outside the camp”.(Exodus 29:14, Hebrews 13:11)  Just as we in this world are told to “put off” the body of sin and to “put to death” the deeds of the flesh. (Col. 2:11) The insides of the animal were to be cleaned with pure water before being offered up to the Lord.(Leviticus 1:9)  This signifies the washing of our hearts and minds by the words of God. (John5:3, Ephesians 5:26) Then we in turn present ourselves a “living sacrifice” being offered up holy and without spot, or without the blemish of sin.(Romans 12:1)

 

The “outer court” in the temple design was given for those who were yet “unclean”, or yet being “uncircumcised” by the Spirit being yet “Gentiles”.  These who were “unclean spiritually” were not allowed access to the “inner court” of Israel, as it was only for those who had already been “purified.”  In spiritual terms it is much the same way, but on a much larger scale.  As the “outer court” that is given to “the Gentiles” is referring to this present earth/world; and the “inner courts” are referring to the heavenly.  Just as Jesus said, God’s will be done on earth, as it is in Heaven.  The heavenly camp has already been purified, and all the evil doers cast out; as was the case with Satan and all his host of evil angels who were cast out of heaven with him down to the earth.(Rev.12:9)

 

Also the “holy city” that is presently being “trodden under foot” not only represents the earthly sanctuary, but also “the host” which represents Gods people who belong to the “earthly Jerusalem”; who are still “in bondage to sin” as Paul spoke in the allegory. (Galatians 4:25)

 

The “host” being “trampled under foot” was prophesied here…Daniel 8:13 by reason of transgression=sin

 

Both God’s people (the daily sacrifice) and God’s words were prophesied to be cast to the ground and be trodden under foot of the Gentiles….(Daniel 8:12, Hebrews 10:29)

I just came across this topic of yours and thought I might respond. First, I certainly agree with so much of what you have said. But I must confess I have yet to study Revelation. However, what you have provided does match quite well to what I believe to be interpreted in the book of Daniel which I have read and studied.

That being said, I can assure you that my new interpretations do not agree with "today's accepted interpretations" for Daniel. Even though there is no consensus or consistency in "today's accepted interpretations" among or within the scholarly, academic or theological community, it is difficult for many to receive or consider other / new interpretations. In any event, I have copied / pasted a few verses from chapters 7 and 8 in Daniel that I believe might be in line with your thoughts on the verses in Revelation you are discussing.

CHAPTER 8 REFERENCES

Here in Daniel 8:9-14. (and please understand that it would be impossible to address all the questions these interpretations would / might trigger.... but they do line up with the rest of my interpretations beginning with chapter 2 and continuing to chapter 12.

 9And out of one of them came a little horn (papacy) which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land. 10And it grew up to the host of heaven (these represent the Jews who are responsible to the administration and management of the Temple, the Sanctuary, etc.,  within the Levitical system); and it cast down some of the host (AFTER pagan Rome was destroyed in 476 BC, the Christian church, which would soon be ruled by this Christian church (the Gentiles would come to full power after the demise of pagan Rome and be ruled by papal Rome (papacy - little horn), would remove or exclude the Jews from the Christian  church (this would actually begin to take place even within the first 200 years after the cross).

and some of the stars (the stars represent the Jews (not the Levitical priests, etc.) who would also find themselves to be excluded from the Christian church during the 400 years after the cross. This would be accomplished in two ways; the Christen (Gentile ruled) church would not want any Jews within "ITS" church, and many Jews during this period would voluntarily remove themselves from this Christian / Gentile church as IT would bring in many papag practices and rituals. The church would no longer resemble the church after the cross. to the ground, and trampled them. 11He (this "he" represents the little horn (papacy) 

even exalted himself (the papacy / pope would declare he represented God on earth and was equal to God. He could forgive sins and change God's laws - and say and do so many other blashpemous things. Even though there is NO literal person in the Scriptures titles as "the anti-Christ" - there is the mention 4 times of the "spirit of the anti-Christ," this evil one is the one that is commonly referred to as the "anti-Christ" figure who has been around for 1500 years. He is not coming in the future, he has been corrupting God's Word since he took power around 500 AD).

as high as the Prince of the host (this Prince is none other than the Messiah. The little horn would contend he was given the keys to the kingdom of God and was equal to God and if he spoke, it was just as if God was speaking).

and by him the daily sacrifices (this does NOT refer to the literal daily sacrfices and it does NOT speak to the little horn. This is directly referring to the cross. As a result of the Cross, there would no longer be a need for the "daily sacrifices." Jesus would be the  perfect and final sacrifice and "do away" with it once and for all) were taken away,

and the place of [fHis sanctuary was cast down. (this phrase also reveals the Messiah will "do away or cast down" the sanctuary. Again, these practices under the Levitical system were a "type and shadow" of the things to come. Each of them would be "fulfilled" by the Messiah on the cross. Only the Messiah could "do away or cast down" the sacrificial practices and offerings found in the Levitical system). Many may contend these phrases are either speaking to the physical Sanctuary or the actual  / literal daily sacrifices, OR, they are referring to the closest antecedent but that is NOT the case. The Scriptures are not necessarily written as we write / read and interpret as in the English language. In this case (verses 9, 10 and 11) are dominated by the "he" or the little horn (papacy). He would not arrive on the scene for another 400 years AFTER the cross, consequently, the Temple, the Sanctuary, the daily sacrifices, the holy vessesl, the walls and the city and its people were already destroyed in 70 AD. Meaning, God is telling us these two specific Levitical practices are "done away or cast down" by the crucifixion of the Messiah.

12Because of transgression (here is another very different interpretation. The "transgression" represents or speaks to the SAME term found earlier and later in Daniel. It represents the "Abomination that causes desolation." Because the Jews rejected and crucified their Messiah,(their most unbeliebly horrific transgression unequallyed at that time and will never again be equalled), will CAUSE God to be made to be completely "desolate" from His people for the next 2000 years. He essentially has turned His back to them as punishment).

 

an army was given over to the horn (as a direct result of their (Jews) transgression, the Lord would allow the "little horn" (papacy) an army (not a military army, but an army of followers)

 

to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he cast truth down to the ground. (this is why verse 11 is speaking of the cross doing away with the daily and the sanctuary - not a physical doing away with), because here, some 400 years AFTER the cross, the little horn would come to power and he would "oppose the daily and cast truth to the ground." This must be speaking to the little horn after 476 BC when he would go against God, His church, His people, His commandments, etc. Here the term "daily sacrifices" is NOT speaking of the literal daily sacrifices of animals because that was stopped in 70 AD. Here, the little horn is claiming that the cross (the sacrifice of the Messiah) OPPOSES THE DAILY- IT IS THEIR CONTENTION THAT SALVATION MUST COME FROM BELONGING TO THE CHURCH (THEIR CHURCH) AND NOT ONLY FROM THE CROSS. Further, they indeed would cast truth to the ground - the "truth" is God's Word - His 10 commandments. When the little horn took full power, he would declare He is God on earth (1st commandment), they  can worship idols (2nd commandment), and he will take God's name in vain (they will honor Him nominally... ) And they would also adopt the earlier decision made  by Constantine in the 4th century to change the Sabbath to Sunday.

So we do not have a repeating of these two transgressions in 11 and 12, we have 11 informing us the Messiah and the cross took away the daily and the sanctuary, while some 400 years later, the little horn would "oppose" them in ruling his church.

 

He did all this and prospered. (Well, this certainly can only represent one character - the little horn who would indeed prosper and he will also continue to the end times until he is destroyed without human hands.

 

 

CHAPTER 7 REFERENCES

24The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another (this refers to the little horn who will come out of the 4th beast kingdom AFTER the 10 horns come out,

shall rise after them,
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute[j] the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

All of these verses speak directly to the little horn (papacy). He shall indeed be different than the 10 horns and he shall indeed speak pompous words against the Most High. He shall persecute His people, His commandments and His laws (10 commandments). He shall intend t o change times and laws (4th commandment), and the "Saints of the Most High" (this does NOT refer to any man or group, whether Jew or Gentile or martyrs during ANY time in man's history. The very specific term, "Saints of the Most High" refers ONLY to HIs 10 commandments. 
Certainly, the Scriptures record the word "saints" more than 2-300 times (OT and NT), and they can mean different things depending on the context they are used, however, the term "Saints of the Most High" IS ONLY FOUND 4 TIMES IN THE SCRIPTURES AND ALL IN CHAPTER 7.

What is the significance of this?  

It is because God will use this term ONLY in Daniel to refer the "Saints of the Most High" to equal His 10 commandments. In Daniel, God will use different symbols to identify the 4 and only 4 kingdoms that are to be considered within His plan of salvation. In chapter 2, He will use different metals and different parts of a man. In chapter 7, He will use different animals to identify the 4 kingdoms, and in chapter 8, He will use domensticated animals that have "horns." 

God will use this same method to describe His 10 commandments. He will reveal their identity in 4 separate times and ways that will reflect THEIR TRANSITION FROM THE METAL MAN IMAGE TO THE DOMESTICATED ANIMALS IN CHAPTER 8.

1) In chapter 2, God reveals the 10 toes. First the iron legs and the iron feet represent th 4th beast kingdom of pagan Rome. WITHIN THIS KINGDOM, God will identify His people as "clay." He will also identify the 10 toes within the feet. The purpose of verse 2:34 where the Stone (Messiah) strikes the feet (not the toes) and breaks apart (not destroys) the iron and the clay is to separate those of His people that He will use to preach the Good News after the cross (these Jews would be referred to in 2:41-43 as "pottery clay" which the Lord can use for His purposes. However, this same "striking of the feet" would separate those of His people who would reject Him and crucify Him. They would not accepy Him as their hearts were hardened and He would refer to them as "ceramic clay"  in verses 2:41-43). 

So after the cross, His "pottery clay" would now go out into the Roman Empire and preach His Word and the Testimony of Jesus. But what about the 10 toes. These 10 toes represent God's 10 commandments also sitting within the captive pagan Roman empire. But they too would not be free or released to be preached to the world.

Thus, we can see in the transition from chapter 2 to chapter 7, the 4th beast kingdom is now referred to as an "indescribable animal" AND we now see the 10 horns (powers) that have come out of the 4th beast kingdom. They are no longer held captive within the iron kingdom. And because they have the "power" of representing His 10 commandments to change lives, God will now refer to them as the "10 horns." For the next 400 years, the Christian church would preach the Messiah and His 10 commandments (10 horns) and they would become powerful in the war against paganism and sin. There is immense power in His Word.

But also in chapter 7 (later on), God will refer to them no longer as 10 horns but "10 kings." Why?  Because they would continue their transition through the 4 kingdoms. Now, chapter 7 tells us the 4th beast kingdom (pagan Rome) will be slain and its body is destroyed. It would be replace by the Christian church (little horn and papal Rome). Now, chapter 7 reveals that both the little horn and the 10 horns (referred to as 10 kings) are SITTING ATOP THE 4TH BEAST KINGDOM. Meaning, they are now to be thought of and treates as, not just 10 horns (powers), but so much more - now they are referred to as 10 Kings beause like any king, they must be obeyed. Now the little horn will appropriate the power of these 10 kings over their subjects - the Christian church.

But the Lord is not done with His 10 toes / horns / kings yet. Here in verse 7:25, after He reveals the little horn has come to full power, this little horn would not only persecute His people, His church, His Messiah, but also His 10 commandments. He now referse to them as the "Saints of the Most High." Meaning, this little horn will "pluck up" three of the 10 horns - this means the little horn would pluck up the first 3 commandments of God. But one should notice that the "little horn" should think to "pluck up" or take away the first 3 commandments of God, while Gabriel in verse 24 will use a very different term. Here he uses "subdue" because NO ONE take do away with His 10 commandments - but the little horn will make low or suppress them.

And this is why God will refer to His 10 commandments at this time in history (when they are under the control of the little horn) as HIs Saints of the Most High. They can never be done away with... they are "holy" and later on, it will be seen that His Saints will continue until the end times (therefore not people) until they will be taken back to heaven to be with God.