DANIEL’S 70th WEEK – (The Gap Theory)

[douggg]

5 hours ago, Serving said:

So there it is .. it says after the 62 weeks Messiah is cut off .. after 69 weeks in total to be precise.

Which means that it has to be talking about the last week, the 70th week in orange  because after 62 (+7) weeks comes week #70.

Which also means that v27 below must also be talking about the last week because it carries on from the verse before it which takes place after the 62 weeks as mentioned .

Jesus arrived in Jerusalem, hailed as the messiah in J0hn 12:12-15.   4 days later, he was crucified.      

On a 483 year prophecy scale, that is essentially cutoff the same time he arrived.    The 7 year 70th week remains and is in Ezekiel 39.

[Charlie744]

There is a terrific response already made to this topic.  In fact, I am quite surprised to see it, since most believe or follow the "gap" theory that was designed and promoted by the Jesuit priest Ribera in the 16th century as a counter reformation measure to have the label of the "little horn" of Daniel 7 and 8 removed from the papacy. Up until that time, the consensus was the papacy was the little horn. And THEY ARE, despite the very successful futurist theory promoted to the many generations of children, and their children, etc., within the RCC. After many generations, this has clearly be removed from the "theory" category to the almost "gospel" like consensus throughout both the RCC AND the Protestant denominations. Again, each generation teaches the next.

 

But the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8 is indeed the papacy and he will / has done all that was prophesied in the book of Daniel. The cornerstone of this "gap" theory is 9:27, where they intentionally defined "he" as "he," some mythical anti-Christ figure, rather than interpret chapter 9 (all of it) consisstently as being the most important Messianic prophecy in the Scriptures. To attribute His sacrifice on the cross to some mythical figure coming in the unidentified future is beyond evil and blasphemous. To strip the Messiah of this event is simply unconscionable. But, that is why they are the little horn - they would stop at nothing to obtain and keep power even over the things that belong  only to God.

 

70 weeks prophecy

This most important prophecy speaks to the events that God would put into place to restore His people, His city, His Temple, His Sanctuary, the walls and the streets, the Sabbatical Cycles, the 7 Feast days, all the ceremionies found with Leviticus, as a result of each of them being completely destroyed or down away with by the Babylonians. This is His plan of restoration - it c0ncerns His people and His city and there is nothing within this prophecy that speaks to a mythial anti-Christ figure. It will reveal every piece of furniture and ever physical and ceremonial restoration including the coming of the Son of Man. 

God will reveal the extrernal structure of this prophecy. He will set the left time bracket at 457BC and the right time bracket at 33/34 BC. This is a closed time system, if you will. Within these 490 literal years, God will carve it into 3 separate time sections. Each of these time sections represent an "internal" set of time brackets that are consecutive and can not be pulled out of order or separated from the "external" time brackets of the 70 years time structure. 

Within these prophecies, (9:24-27) God will reveal a few important things regading this "plan of restoration." Again, there is absolutely nothing within these verses that speak to some mythical anti-Christ figure as these are all meant to reveal those events that will RESTORE His people and His city (even though they will also record the cross - but that was indeed in His plan from the foundation of the world).

Gabriel will reveal the events that will be fulfilled within the first 7 weeks or 49 literal years of the prophecy. This first section of the 3 part prophecy represents those activities that will be restored by the JEWS. These are the physial items. This is THEIR mission within this restoratiaon prophecy. 

But notice next, that Gabriel reveals, not the second section, the largest section carved our of the 70 or the 62 weeks (434 literal years), but reveals the events that will take place with the 3rd and last section of the 70 weeks prophecy. Clearly, this is purposefully done to confirm those events that will and must take  place before the end of the 70 continuous weeks - the last week of the prophecy. There are two and only two parties to His plan of restoration. The Jews will fulfill their mission in the first 7 weeks, and the Messiah will fulfill His God given mission in the final or last week of the 70 weeks. God had set aside the last week of the prophecy for those events that can only be fulfilled by the Messiah. The Jews would not and could not have any ability to fulfill the 6 requirements identified in 9:24. This was exclusively His mission withi God's set aside final 7 years.

His plan of restoration would reveal all the pieces of furniture, all the physical items (Temple, city, walls, etc.) that would be restored in the reverse order they were destroyed or taken away. Consequently, the first piece of furniture taken away was the Ark of the Covenant by Jeremiah prior to the Babylonians arrival. Meaning, this would be the last piece of furniture to be restored - an it could and would only come about AFTER everything else was first restored. Therefore, AFTER the end of the 69th week, the Messiah would arrive and be baptized in the Jordan on the FIRST DAY OF THE 70TH WEEK, He would represent and symbolize the restoration of the ARk of the Covenant - the last piecce of furniture to be restored. Everthing had to be ready for the coming Messiah.  Within the last set aside 7 years, the Messiah would begin His ministry and complete 9:24.

Gabriel reveals it is ONLY AFTER the end of the 69 weeks will the Messiah arrive (restorative verse concerning the Messiah within 9:24-27). Then, like a belt and suspenders approach, Gabriels will reveal that the Messiah will be "cut off" AFTER 62 WEEKS (this is in the destructive verse in 9:24-27). Obviously, He has to arrive first, (after the end of the 69th week), but will be crucified AFTER THE  62 WEEKS. And that is exactly what these verses are telling us AND THERE IS NO WAY ANYONE SHOULD REFUTE THIS SINCE THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT TOOK PLACE IN ALL OF OUR HISTORY BOOKS.

 

 

Despite the crucifixion, the Messiah would fulfill all 6 of His Father's commands (9:24), and He would be heard on the cross saying, "it is finished." He fulfilled His mission. Consequently, all of the requirements  of the 70 week prophecy would be completed / fulfilled by both the Jews and the Messiah - except for one thing. The ONLY thing that has yet to be completed, but this too was purposeful, is the completing of the 4th and final Great Jubilee Cycle. This final GJ began in 457BC and would end exactly at the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy in 33/34 AD. However, because the Jews rejected thier Messiah and crucified Him, the counting of the clock to complete the requried 490 years of the Great Jubilee stopped. No longer were the Jews in good standing with their God - they had just crucified Him. Thus, the counting was stopped - from 457BC to 30AD (time of the cross) would come to exactly 486.5 years (He was crucified in the "midst of the last 7 years). These last 3.5 years are yet to be fulfilled. They are NOT a requirement of the 70 weeks of years prophecy, they are not an unfulfilled requirement of the Messiah. They are only a requirement of the Jews to complete. And they were purposely let incomplete in conjunction with the timing of the cross.  God had intentionally "blinded their eyes" from recognizing Jesus as their Messiah. This was within His plan of restoration for all mankind - not just the Jews. Right before the end of all things, God will once again bring a divine event onto His people. He will remove the blindness from their eyes and for exactly 3.5 years the Jews will recognize the One they pierced. They will go out unto the world preaching the Word of God and the Testimony of Jesus for these 3.5 years.  It will complete the 4th and final Great Jubilee and bring in the second coming of the Messiah. This is the ONLY, yet planned, unfulfilled event associated with the 70 weeks of years prophecy. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO 7 YEAR TRIBULATION, THERE IS NO ANTI-CHRIST FIGURE, THERE IS NO 7 YEAR AGREEMENT THIS MYTHICAL ANTI-CHRIST FIGURE WILL ENTER INTO WITH ISRAEL... ON AND ON. 

The Messiah would CONFIRM the New Covenant (mentioned in Jeremiah 31:31-34) DURING THE LAST 7 YEARS OF THE 70 WEEK PROPHECY. There is no 7 year agreement!

Abomination of Desolation.

I apologize in advance but this and so much more can be found in my commentary on Daniel (came out 11/9/23, and I would only ask if you want to know more about it is to send me a PM only), but EVERYONE has interpreted this pharse to accompany the mythical anti-Christ figure promoted by the little horn (papacy) WITHIN THEIR "7 YEAR TRIBULATION PERIOD COMING AT THE END OF TIME - AKA - THE "GAP" THEORY. But once again, this is the work of the evil one.

 

As a result of the cross, those "things" found in Leviiticus regarding the ceremonies, the feast days, the Temple, the Sanctuary, the daily and annual animal sacrifices, the High priest, etc., were all a type and shadow of the coming Messiah. Jesus would be our High Priest, our Temple, our Sanctuary. He was the perfect sacrifice for our sins. After the cross, ALL OF THESE THINGS HAD FULFILLED THEIR GOD GIVEN MISSION ON THE EARTH. They would be cast down, it will bring an end to the sacrifices and offerings. They were no longer needed or would even again have the presences of God within them. This does not mean the Jews who rejected the Messiah would not continue with their pre-cross ceremonies - but that was the problem. They rejected their Messiah and would continue doing what they have been doing for 1500 years - but that makes no difference in the accomplishments or plan of God. The Temple, the Sanctuary, the animal sacrifices would continue for another 40 years (testing period before God would destroy the physical things related to the Levitival ceremonies). Their mission on this earth was fulfilled, regardless as to whether the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah and did away with the Levitical laws. They can built a 3rd or 4th or 5th Temple - doesn't have any effect on God's plan of salvation. It will just be another common building that would never house the presence of God - no matter how they claim that Jesus was not their Messiah. Alth0ugh I believe He will remove the blindness from their eyes very soon - this 3rd Temple talk will obviously immediately go away.

But getting back to the AOD - the Abomination that causes the Desolation - this can ONLY BE ONE EVENT IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND. THERE IS NO EVENT THAT WOULD OR COULD COME CLOSE TO THE DEFINIATION OF THIS (and remember, the 1st Temple was completely destroyed so the destruction of a physical building or Temple would not cause such a "desolation."

First, it is important to understand what the term "desolation" means. It does not mean or refer to the destruction of a 3rd Temple or the Jews or the city and land, etc. It is so much greater than that. As a result of the cross, the Jews would become completely "desolate" from their God for the next 2000 years. Not only did they reject their Messiah, but they crucified Him. Thus, God would separate Himself from His people - He would no longer be found with His people - they would have no access to Him as a result of the cross. That is, only until He removes the blindness from their eyes and they declare, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord."

The AOD or the Abomination that casuse their complete desolation is the cross. His crucifixion is the abomination that would cause their complete desolation from their God for the next 2000 years.

Consequently, everything in chapter 9 speaks of the coming Messiah, His fulfillment and restoration of His people, His city, His God given mission (9:24), confirming His New Covenant during the final 7 years of the prophecy.. and continues to offer salvation to the Gentiles thr0ugh the Jews by way of their rejection of their Messiah.

There is SO MUCH MORE TO THIS STORY FOUND IN DANIEL - AND NONE OF IT HAS TO DO WITH SOME RIDICULOUS GAP THEORY OR MAN MADE 7 YEAR TRIBULATION PERIOD OR SOME MYTHICAL ANTI-CHRIST FIGURE. Everything in the book of Daniel ties together from chapter 1 to chapter 12.

And by the way, the earlies reference to chapter 12 regarding the 1290 and 1335 days have also been grossly misinterpreted. The 1290 days speaks to the Messiah's first coming, while the 1335 days speaks to His second coming.

 

Just a few thoughts along this topic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[douggg]

2 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Within these prophecies, (9:24-27) God will reveal a few important things regading this "plan of restoration." Again, there is absolutely nothing within these verses that speak to some mythical anti-Christ figure as these are all meant to reveal those events that will RESTORE His people and His city (even though they will also record the cross - but that was indeed in His plan from the foundation of the world).

Charlie, the teaching that Antichrist shall come was well known by first century Christians, as John indicated in 1John2:18.    And that he would appear in the last days.

"as ye have heard" indicates that they were well aware of a coming Antichrist person.

That he is a singular person,  John contrasted with there are already being many "antichrists".

Those things in bible spoke by the apostle John are 1500 years before Ribera.   So Ribera did not invent the end times futurist view.    

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

---------------------------------

The prince who shall come "of the people who destroy the temple and city" will be the one who will confirm the covenant for seven years.   

The people who destroyed the temple and city were the Roman army    So of out that military juggernaut, in the end times, the prince who shall come will arrive.

Since the 70 weeks are determined upon Daniel's people the Jews and Jerusalem, his arrival will be to Jerusalem leading a military group of the end times Roman Empire - i.e. the EU.

It will happen in the wake of the Gog/Magog event, with the prince who shall come with his army will be intended on keeping the peace in the region.      That person will become the Antichrist that John indicated shall come.

[Serving]

On 12/29/2023 at 10:14 PM, AdHoc said:

Greetings "Down under"

Nice to swap ideas in a non-combative mode. You are absolutely correct. This is a matter for Israel, and we look on with interest but not with a view to some crucial doctrine. Instead of me countering point for point, let me just give my understanding for Daniel 9:24; 

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy

"Seventy SEVENS"  - the heptadic structure of scripture introducing the time of the Babylonian Captivity of the 70 Sabbaths that Israel did not give the Land her Sabbath (Lev.26:34, 43) multiplied by the time till the coming Sabbath of Hebrews 3 and 4 - the seventh day for God - the Millennium. The following year would be a Jubilee and a fitting years for every Israelite to be returned to his inheritance. Sir Robert Anderson's calculation is the best I've seen bringing us within four days of the crucifixion of Christ. The 69th SEVEN ends with Messiah cut off and last SEVEN concerns the "Caesar" that Israelite called for at the trial of Jesus. Two antagonists will vie for rulership of the world. Both lay claim, not to Rome, but Jerusalem

"THY people". To allow the profane soldiers of Babylon to enter the Temple without instant death, God forsakes His Land, People, City and House - Israel is left "LO-ammi" (The first Chapters of Ezekiel). Israel will again be called "MY People" by God but only after their gathering to their Land as one people under David (Jer.30:9). The division of Israel into two peoples that you propose does not exist. If an Israelite turns to Jesus he is a New Creature with no past (2nd Cor.5:17). Ethnicity is gone since his origin is now the Holy Spirit and not Jacob. There is NO JEW in the New Man (Gal.3:28, Col.3:11).

"THY Holy City". God once dwelt in this City. He vacated it and it became a ruin. Israel, as a nation, were also ruined, being dispersed in all Nations. At the time of the prophecy Jerusalem is NOT God's City. But Daniel owned it and faced toward it daily. In Millennial glory, it will be home to "Emmanuel" (God WITH us) and be "the city of the great King".

"to finish THE transgression". Israel worship idols in Egypt. God provides a Lamb. They escape judgment. But by Exodus 20 they agree to God's Laws anchored by Covenant. They TRANSGRESS by molding a Golden Calf. They carry their idols through the wilderness and then adopt the idols of Canaan. Because of idol worship Israel go into captivity. There, they "serve other gods". They are chastised 2,000 years, but end it by putting a Gentile king into the Holy Place of the Temple (2nd Thess.2:4). For this God sends "Jacob's Trouble". The Translgression is complete. But how will they avoid it in future?

"By makinga an end of sins". The Law was good, spiritual and given by God. It was under death penalty - serious. The weakness of the Law was man's flesh. Jeremiah 31 promises a New Covenant of Law. This one Israel will keep because they (i) have the Law written inside of them (ii) geta New Spirit, and (iii) get a New Heart. Israel, by intrinsic nature, will keep the Law.

But Israel have sinned and refused faith in Jesus. They might stop sinning, but what of God's just RETRIBUTION? Will God wink at Israel's Millennia of iniquity. But if God does administer justice, Israel ceases to exist and "reconciliation" is thwarted. But reconciliation is Promisd by the prophets - so God's honor is at stake. This is the subject of Romans 9, 10 & 11. Israel are forgive because (i) They have Covenants and the Promises of the prophets and because (ii) Jesus laid the judicial ground work of forgiveness becaue He died for the sin and sins OF THE WORLD (Jn.1:29, 1st Jn.2:2).

I see that there is no short version of this verse, so I'm going to stop here and trust that you have another view of this verse. Whether you agree or not, is, of course, another matter. But I'm sure you'll be fair.

Take care.

G'day Central Europe,

I'm just replying to your post again to say thanks.

Thanks for being non combative also .. it makes it far more enjoyable to come back to a debate free of negative vibes .. so thank you too AdHoc.

I'm going to be fully open now and admit something about Daniel 9's 70 weeks. I've been hoping to nail down what I am about to admit before bringing it up, but I think I ought to let you know so you can see where I am truly at with the prophecy .. no holding back anymore ..

This :

Daniel 9:24-27 – 
24 “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”

 

Everything in red I believe is completed within the 70 weeks.

Blue is obviously future from the end of the 70 weeks from my perspective, so why is it there?

And green I can explain within the scope of the red side or the blue side's argument .. it can fit with both point of views.

So the rule of thumb with scripture containing unfulfilled information within a prophecy is this, it's either just added in for insight for those looking back on history .. or .. or there is a duality taking place.

Usually .. and this hurts to admit .. usually it means a duality is taking place .. I'd wager 90% of the time it means duality is present.

And to be honest, I can see how a duality using those blue scriptures and leading in to the final verse below it (v27) can have a credible case when saying it is also linked to the false prophet, the man of sin and of the tribulation period .. how it can indeed be a case of duality.

I can see that, it's just that I'm not sure if it is valid .. though credible .. I'm still undecided. 

So having said that, I can not deny that those blue scriptures above are outside the scope of the 70 weeks and still can't answer to myself if it is indeed a duality or just added information.

And every time I try deciphering it to get to the bottom of it .. I find myself trapped in a argument loop with myself which floods my brain with scriptures and I become paralyzed and overwhelmed. I just can't resolve it.

Obviously God has not permitted me the answer for a reason .. perhaps I have a bit more overcoming to achieve in my personal life before I can get closure on this frustrating prophecy.

Perhaps another thorn in my side needs plucking up by the roots first before the answer gets revealed to me.. hmmm, more than likely.

So now you know my overall stance. 

That's my honest take .. and that's what you get for being civil to me AdHoc .. full open disclosure.

Cheers AdHoc.

  

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Serving

[Serving]

5 hours ago, douggg said:

Jesus arrived in Jerusalem, hailed as the messiah in J0hn 12:12-15.   4 days later, he was crucified.      

On a 483 year prophecy scale, that is essentially cutoff the same time he arrived.    The 7 year 70th week remains and is in Ezekiel 39.

Hi Douggg,

I'll get back to you because I must log off .. things to do .. but I will get back to your point.

Cheers.

[Charlie744]

30 minutes ago, douggg said:

Charlie, the teaching that Antichrist shall come was well known by first century Christians, as John indicated in 1John2:18.    And that he would appear in the last days.

"as ye have heard" indicates that they were well aware of a coming Antichrist person.

That he is a singular person,  John contrasted with there are already being many "antichrists".

Those things in bible spoke by the apostle John are 1500 years before Ribera.   So Ribera did not invent the end times futurist view.    

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

---------------------------------

The prince who shall come "of the people who destroy the temple and city" will be the one who will confirm the covenant for seven years.   

The people who destroyed the temple and city were the Roman army    So of out that military juggernaut, in the end times, the prince who shall come will arrive.

Since the 70 weeks are determined upon Daniel's people the Jews and Jerusalem, his arrival will be to Jerusalem leading a military group of the end times Roman Empire - i.e. the EU.

It will happen in the wake of the Gog/Magog event, with the prince who shall come with his army will be intended on keeping the peace in the region.      That person will become the Antichrist that John indicated shall come.

I understand your position and you are deeply committed to it. Charlie 

[Charlie744]

21 minutes ago, Serving said:

G'day Central Europe,

I'm just replying to your post again to say thanks.

Thanks for being non combative also .. it makes it far more enjoyable to come back to a debate free of negative vibes .. so thank you too AdHoc.

I'm going to be fully open now and admit something about Daniel 9's 70 weeks. I've been hoping to nail down what I am about to admit before bringing it up, but I think I ought to let you know so you can see where I am truly at with the prophecy .. no holding back anymore ..

This :

Daniel 9:24-27 – 
24 “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”

 

Everything in red I believe is completed within the 70 weeks.

Blue is obviously future from the end of the 70 weeks from my perspective, so why is it there?

And green I can explain within the scope of the red side or the blue side's argument .. it can fit with both point of views.

So the rule of thumb with scripture containing unfulfilled information within a prophecy is this, it's either just added in for insight for those looking back on history .. or .. or there is a duality taking place.

Usually .. and this hurts to admit .. usually it means a duality is taking place .. I'd wager 90% of the time it means duality is present.

And to be honest, I can see how a duality using those blue scriptures and leading in to the final verse below it (v27) can have a credible case when saying it is also linked to the false prophet, the man of sin and of the tribulation period .. how it can indeed be a case of duality.

I can see that, it's just that I'm not sure if it is valid .. though credible .. I'm still undecided. 

So having said that, I can not deny that those blue scriptures above are outside the scope of the 70 weeks and still can't answer to myself if it is indeed a duality or just added information.

And every time I try deciphering it to get to the bottom of it .. I find myself trapped in a argument loop with myself which floods my brain with scriptures and I become paralyzed and overwhelmed. I just can't resolve it.

Obviously God has not permitted me the answer for a reason .. perhaps I have a bit more overcoming to achieve in my personal life before I can get closure on this frustrating prophecy.

Perhaps another thorn in my side needs plucking up by the roots first before the answer gets revealed to me.. hmmm, more than likely.

So now you know my overall stance. 

That's my honest take .. and that's what you get for being civil to me AdHoc .. full open disclosure.

Cheers AdHoc.

  

 

Gabriel purposefully mentions the “people of the prince who is to come who will destroy the city and the sanctuary” because it will be the Roman army under Titus that will fulfill this prophecy in 70 AD. It will not be for another 400 years when this “prince” (little horn) will come to power. 
 

Pagan Rome will begin to decline over the first 400 years and according to Daniel, it will be slain and its body destroyed. This will allow the little horn to climb to the top of the beast kingdom (chapter 7) and begin to rule as papal Rome.  But at 70AD, the people of pagan Rome represent the “people of the coming prince.”

[Serving]

34 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Gabriel purposefully mentions the “people of the prince who is to come who will destroy the city and the sanctuary” because it will be the Roman army under Titus that will fulfill this prophecy in 70 AD. It will not be for another 400 years when this “prince” (little horn) will come to power. 
 

Pagan Rome will begin to decline over the first 400 years and according to Daniel, it will be slain and its body destroyed. This will allow the little horn to climb to the top of the beast kingdom (chapter 7) and begin to rule as papal Rome.  But at 70AD, the people of pagan Rome represent the “people of the coming prince.”

Hi Charlie,

The parts I highlighted above .. I agree with you, that was fulfilled.

My point had to do with the possible duality present in the prophecy because the event above happened, and to my reckoning, it happened outside of the 70 weeks prophecy ..

So that hints, to me, at it being added information for reasons of a way point instead of a duality.

A way point that helps understand other related prophecies within historical context overall.

All I am saying that there is still a possibility of a duality.

I do lean towards it as a mere waypoint, I'm just admitting that yes, there could be more to it is all.

Cheers. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Serving

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, Serving said:

Hi Charlie,

The parts I highlighted above .. I agree with you, that was fulfilled.

My point had to do with the possible duality present in the prophecy because the event above happened, and to my reckoning, it happened outside of the 70 weeks prophecy ..

So that hints, to me, at it being added information for reasons of a way point instead of a duality.

A way point that helps understand other related prophecies within historical context overall.

All I am saying that there is still a possibility of a duality.

I do lean towards it as a mere waypoint, I'm just admitting that yes, there could be more to it is all.

Cheers. 

I agree with you that this is the one physical item that falls outside of the 70 weeks of years prophecy - it is not a restorative part of the prophecy within the firs 7 weeks or the last 1 week. However, God would predict the destruction of the Temple, but He would not have it destroyed until He gave His people 40 years of testing to return to Him and realize He was their Messiah. I think you will agree that NO JEW, NO MATTER HOW EDUCATED IN THE TORAH (PAUL) OR HOW LOYAL THEY MAY HAVE CLAIMED TO BE (PETER) WOULD UNDERSTAND AND TRULY RECOGNIZE JESUS AS THE MESSIAH - GOD ON EARTH. This was His plan from the beginning of time - He would intentionally blind them from seeing He was their God. This was necessary for Him to go to the cross and make His sacrifice available to the entire human race. After the cross, after His resurrection, after Paul's Damascus experience, after all of His Apostiles would go and preach the Word of God and the Testimony of Jesus, would He "keep the door open," if you will, for another 40 years to give His people everything they would need, not only in their actual experience of His resurrectrion, but Paul's teachings in the Tanakh and how they indeed spoke of His first coming and how He would be the perfect sacrifice for our sins. 

Unfortunately, the ruling class of the Pharisees and the Jews would have hardened their heart thus bringing up0n them a complete "desolation" from their God and of course the destruction of the city, the Temple, etc., in 70 AD.

There certainly may be a dual application within God's Word as you suggested, but I have not found it in Daniel. I suspect if there is one it will be seen in Revelation which is a book I recently just started to work on. Having said that, AND, not knowing what you might be referring to regarding this "dual application," if it involves anything such as the building of a 3rd Temple, I would strongly disagree.... it and the Levitical laws, the Sanctuary, etc., have all fulfilled their God given mission. It is nothing that God would be concerned with - His cross has done away with them all and it would only be another terrible slap in His face for them to think they need another Temple to get to salvation. It is so clear, that salvation is only available by the cross.

Finally, you mention you did not highlight or make bold the last comment regarding pagan Rome, the little horn and the 4th beast kingdom, etc. I wouild be more than happy to receive your interpretation or thoughts on this subject. 

Thanks for your comments and thoughts, Charlie

 

[douggg]

3 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

I understand your position and you are deeply committed to it. Charlie 

The prince who shall come "of the people who destroy the temple and city" will be the one who will confirm the covenant for seven years.   

The people who destroyed the temple and city were the Roman army    So of out that military juggernaut, in the end times, the prince who shall come will arrive.

Since the 70 weeks are determined upon Daniel's people the Jews and Jerusalem, his arrival will be to Jerusalem leading a military group of the end times Roman Empire - i.e. the EU.

Keep an eye on this guy...

It will happen in the wake of the Gog/Magog event, with the prince who shall come with his EU army will be intended on keeping the peace in the region.      That person will become the Antichrist that John indicated shall come.

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by douggg