DANIEL’S 70th WEEK – (The Gap Theory)

[rollinTHUNDER]

Why I believe Matthew 24 is Daniel’s 70th Week, the final 7 years.
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+ Matt. 24:4-14 = Time of sorrows (birth pains – 3 1/2 yrs.)
+ Matt. 24:15 = Abomination of desolation (end of sacrifices)
+ Matt. 24:16-28 = Great tribulation (3 1/2 years)
+ Matt. 24:29-31 = (Rapture) End of 70th week / Times of the Gentiles fulfilled

 

Before I begin, let me say that profound mysteries in Bible prophecy are usually fulfilled in ways that most of us are not expecting.  Let’s use the coming of Israel’s Messiah, for example.  Israel knew the time was near for their Messiah to come, but nearly everyone, if not all were expecting a mighty conquering king.  They had no idea that Messiah would be coming twice.  So when He finally came as a humble, suffering servant, very few were able to recognize and receive Him, even though there were many other prophecies that also foretold of Him coming as the Lamb of God.  But because Israel had grown very weary of being subject to the Romans, they were longing for their mighty king, so they focused on the prophecies that foretold His second coming instead.  I believe this prophecy is very similar in a way.
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Daniel 9:24-27 – “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”
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Many scholar’s believe that Daniel’s 70th week has already been fulfilled, because they do not see a gap in this prophecy.  Well, it’s true, there is no mention of a gap in the prophecy above.  However, there’s also no mention of Christ being baptized to begin the 70th week as some believe, especially when the previous verse (26) is clear He was already cut off after 69 weeks.  He could not be both, cut off after the 69th week, and then be baptized and begin His ministry at the start of the 70th week.  There’s also no mention that Christ, Himself, put a stop to sacrifices in the middle of the week, as some claim who believe the 70 weeks have already been fulfilled.  And finally, this prophecy says nothing about the end of the week ending with the stoning of Stephen.  Personally, I’d choose the gap any day, over those three assumptions that do not fit the scriptures.  Now please allow me to tell you why there is a gap, even though it’s not mentioned in Daniel’s prophecy.
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First, scripture is clear that the sacrifices did not stop in the middle of the week, when Christ was crucified.  The sacrifices continued another 40 years, until the temple was finally destroyed in 70AD.  Second, Daniel also tells us what will put a stop to the sacrifices in the middle of the week, and that is the abomination of desolation that will occur 1290 days before the resurrection/rapture.
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Daniel 11:31 – “His armies shall rise up and desecrate the sanctuary fortress. They shall abolish the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination that makes desolate.”
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Daniel 12:11-13 – “From the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away and the abomination that makes desolate set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he who waits and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. 13 “But as for you, go your way until the end. Then you shall rest and rise again for your lot at the end of the age.” (resurrection)
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Now about that gap that isn’t mentioned in Daniel.  Since Israel chose to reject her Messiah, God’s plan was to open the way for the salvation of the Gentiles (Rom. 11:11).  After all, Christ didn’t come to die for Israel’s sins alone.  No, He was the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world (John 1:29); so yes, even though the 70 weeks prophecy was for the Jews and Jerusalem, the Gentiles must be included as well.  However, there was no need for God to mention His plan for the Gentiles in Daniel’s prophecy for Israel, and I believe this may be why the Gentiles were not mentioned.  So once Israel rejected and crucified Christ after 69 weeks (483 years), the 70th week was put on hold, and God turned His focus unto the Gentiles.  Paul later told the Gentiles that Israel would be partially blinded until the times of the Gentiles were fulfilled (Rom. 11:25).
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Zechariah 9:9 – “Rejoice greatly, Daughter Zion! Shout, Daughter Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and victorious, lowly and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.”
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When the nation of Israel officially rejected her Messiah on the day He came riding into Jerusalem on a donkey at the end of the 69th week (483 yrs.), He was cut off (crucified) just a few days later, not in the middle of the week or 3 1/2 years later.  I believe that since Israel rejected Messiah, it was God’s plan to put the 70th week on hold, and then turned His attention to the Gentile nations.  The times of the Gentiles will last for 2000 years, which is why Christ still has not returned.  And I believe the 70th week will not begin until the following passage is fulfilled.
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John 5:43 – “I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.”
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Hosea 6:2 – “After two days He will revive us. On the third day He will raise us up, that we may live before Him.”
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In Hosea’s prophecy above, we know that Israel was not revived in 2 days or even 2 years.  Christ was crucified almost 2000 years ago, so the 2 days can only represent 2000 years, if we are to understand this properly.  Therefore, the only way this prophecy makes any sense, is when we apply (2 Pet. 3:8 and Psalm 90:4).
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2 Peter 3:8 – “But, beloved, do not be ignorant of this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
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Psalm 90:4 – “For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.”
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We also know from other scripture that Israel would be partially blinded until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, which are also nearly 2000 years.  Yes, we are still in the times of the Gentiles today.  Israel is still partially blind as they still can’t see that Christ was their long awaited Messiah, so the 2000 years still have not yet expired.
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Romans 11:25 – “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.”
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And we also know, according to scripture, that the times of the Gentiles won’t be fulfilled until after the great tribulation, after the 42 months, which is the second-half of Daniel’s 70th week.  And the two witnesses will also be prophesying for 1260 days (42 months) during that future time as well.  I guess people are still selling fools gold these days, and unfortunately some people are still buying it, but scriptures are not fulfilled by assumptions.
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Revelation 11:2-3 – “But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”
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So this explains the 2000 year gap between the 69th and 70th week, and why the Lord has still not returned in nearly 2000 years.  We are still in the times of the Gentiles and I believe the 70th week will begin when Israel receives the one who will come in his own name, and there will also be some type of peace settlement for one week (7 yrs.) involved.  I believe the times of the Gentiles will end when the sign of the Son of man appears (rapture), as Christ will appear immediately after the tribulation of those days.
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Matthew 24:29-31 – “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
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So just because we don’t see the 2000 year gap mentioned in Daniel’s 70 weeks prophecy to the Jews and Jerusalem, this does not mean there won’t or can’t be a gap.  As I mentioned earlier, there are other prophecies that relate to the times of the Gentiles.  God has a plan for Israel and a plan for the Gentiles.  He is not required to reveal His plan for the Gentiles within His plan for Israel.  We know that the Lamb of God died for the sins of the world, so His plan must include the Gentiles as well.  Therefore, salvation was offered to Israel first, and then to the Gentiles.  We remain today, in the times of the Gentiles, and desolation’s (plural) have been determined for the holy city, until the consummation, when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled and the sign of the Son of man appears in all His brilliant glory.
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2 Peter 3:3-9 – “Know this first, that there shall come scoffers in the last days who walk after their own lusts, ⁴ and say, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things have continued as they were since the beginning of the creation.” ⁵ For they willingly ignore that, by the word of God the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed standing out of the water and in the water, ⁶ by which the world that then existed was flooded with water and perished. ⁷ But by the same word, the heavens and the earth that now exist are being reserved for fire, kept for the Day of Judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
⁸ But, beloved, do not be ignorant of this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. ⁹ The Lord is not slow concerning His promise, as some count slowness. But He is patient with us, because He does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance.”

[Serving]

18 hours ago, rollinTHUNDER said:

Daniel 9:24-27 – “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”

Hi Rollin,

This is what I see from my own study ..

The time frame allotted upon both the people & the holy city :

“Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city

The requirements within the commandment God set forth : 

to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

If we just concentrate on the requirements above for now, discarding the 70 weeks for now, and find that the requirements were all met .. then all the number crunching & details thereafter in verses 25,26 & 27 become secondary simply because the requirements were met .. and if met, then the 70 weeks allotment was indeed fulfilled after all. 

God did say that the 70 weeks were determined  upon them .. that is, God set 70 weeks for to fulfill all the requirements that He laid out above .. meaning, God pre-determined how long it would take for said requirements to be fulfilled. 

ONLY if one or any of those requirements were not met could one justify a supposed unfulfilled week to become a future week .. prophetically speaking.

The requirements are not beholden to the details in v's 25-27 Rollin simply because the details are the explanation as to how the requirements were fulfilled.

So the only question we really need ask is whether all the requirements were met or not.

And if they were .. then no missing week can be justified and moved forward in time and added to things it ought not be added to

I put the below evidence together quickly, so hopefully it suffices for now : 

to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

finish the transgression :

Isaiah 59:20
And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

end of sins :

1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

reconciliation for iniquity :

Hebrews 2:17
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Romans 6:19
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

bring in everlasting righteousness :

Psalms 119:142
Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Hebrews 13:20
Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

seal up the vision and prophecy :

Isaiah 8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

Isaiah 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.

2 Peter 1:19
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

anoint the most Holy :

Mark 14:1-9
1 After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.

2 But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar of the people.

3 And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head.

4 And there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said, Why was this waste of the ointment made?

5 For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and have been given to the poor. And they murmured against her.

6 And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me.

7 For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.

8 She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying.

9 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.

We see that everything was indeed fulfilled Rollin, wouldn't that mean that the 70 weeks were fulfilled too?

God did say it would take 70 weeks to fulfil after all and behold, they were indeed fulfilled. 

The problem with the missing week in my opinion is nothing more that a problem of interpretation.

Though I didn't entertain verses 25-27, I am willing to address any of them that you would like addressed if unsatisfied with the above ..

Cheers.

[AdHoc]

4 hours ago, Serving said:

“Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city

The requirements within the commandment God set forth : 

to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The fulfillment of prophecy is born by both God's Word and/or history. The 330 plus prophecies that our Lord fulfilled during His first sojourn on earth are recorded for us in His Word. History also bears record to some extent. The prophecy of Daniel is divided into two languages - Aramaic when he addressed the Gentiles, and Hebrew when the prophecy concerned "his people". The term, "his people" is very somber. It is so named because God had withdrawn for "HIS people" and called them "Lo-ammi" - "you are NOT my people". Likewise, what is once called, "the City of the Great King" is no longer that since the House is left desolate. It is "THY (Daniel's) city."

In your answer above, the scriptures you gave do not show and end of sins "for Daniel's people and Daniel's City". On the contrary they show a greater sin than ever before - the placement of a Gentile king in the Holy Place. For this a Temple is needed. But since Messiah was cut off no such Gentile king has been placed there. The opposite happened. Israel rebelled against the Gentile king and were destroyed.

Your scriptures show rather that Messiah achieved certain goals, and not Daniel's People.

Perhaps your last scripture from Mark deserves a comment. It is true that Jesus was anointed by Mary, but it was for His BURIAL. And the anointing was a memorial FOR HER. Her fame is that she anointed Jesus while He still lived. Nicodemus and Joseph got to do it after His death. But in resurrection and for the THRONE it is God Who anoints Jesus (Hebrews 1).

Perhaps too, the Bible should speak for itself. In multiple other prophesies a "gap" is introduced. It is always so when the interim time  does not concern Israel. In Joel 2:28-32 he prophecies for the day of Pentecost - which Peter affirms. But the prophecy jumps from that first Pentecost to a future day in which the signs of judgment are evident (Joel.2:30). Between these two events is the whole Church age. But Joel leaves it out because Israel will be under chastisement and in the diaspora. So too in Daniel 9 the gap is the time when God is not working with Israel. God only starts to work with Israel again when the Church is complete (Act.15:14-16).

 

[Serving]

8 hours ago, AdHoc said:

The fulfillment of prophecy is born by both God's Word and/or history. The 330 plus prophecies that our Lord fulfilled during His first sojourn on earth are recorded for us in His Word. History also bears record to some extent. The prophecy of Daniel is divided into two languages - Aramaic when he addressed the Gentiles, and Hebrew when the prophecy concerned "his people". The term, "his people" is very somber. It is so named because God had withdrawn for "HIS people" and called them "Lo-ammi" - "you are NOT my people". Likewise, what is once called, "the City of the Great King" is no longer that since the House is left desolate. It is "THY (Daniel's) city."

In your answer above, the scriptures you gave do not show and end of sins "for Daniel's people and Daniel's City". On the contrary they show a greater sin than ever before - the placement of a Gentile king in the Holy Place. For this a Temple is needed. But since Messiah was cut off no such Gentile king has been placed there. The opposite happened. Israel rebelled against the Gentile king and were destroyed.

Your scriptures show rather that Messiah achieved certain goals, and not Daniel's People.

Perhaps your last scripture from Mark deserves a comment. It is true that Jesus was anointed by Mary, but it was for His BURIAL. And the anointing was a memorial FOR HER. Her fame is that she anointed Jesus while He still lived. Nicodemus and Joseph got to do it after His death. But in resurrection and for the THRONE it is God Who anoints Jesus (Hebrews 1).

Perhaps too, the Bible should speak for itself. In multiple other prophesies a "gap" is introduced. It is always so when the interim time  does not concern Israel. In Joel 2:28-32 he prophecies for the day of Pentecost - which Peter affirms. But the prophecy jumps from that first Pentecost to a future day in which the signs of judgment are evident (Joel.2:30). Between these two events is the whole Church age. But Joel leaves it out because Israel will be under chastisement and in the diaspora. So too in Daniel 9 the gap is the time when God is not working with Israel. God only starts to work with Israel again when the Church is complete (Act.15:14-16).

 

Hi AdHoc,

Firstly, I'd like to point out that there were two camps in Jesus' day out of "thy people" .. those who accepted Him of "thy people" and those who rejected Him, who would become over time "Not My people" (over time because Jesus was still pleading with the rebels right up till 70ad). 

Yet Hosea reveals to us that even amongst that "not My people" group, they will one day be called "My people" again, correct .. but that event is still future even today for those under the "not My people" camp. 

Secondly, I'd like to point out that Jesus was indeed of "thy people" when made flesh .. besides the lineage provided in Matthew etc, here are a couple of other examples :

Hebrews 2:17
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

John 4:9
Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

Seeing that Jesus was made flesh, born of a woman into the tribe of David being a Jew .. doesn't that in itself show that Jesus was indeed of "thy people" ? 

Of course it does.

Therefore, who amongst "thy people" carried on with the sacrifices and abominations right up until 70ad?

Well, those called "not My people" carried on with those abominations & sacrifices .. the ones who rejected Jesus.

But those of "thy people" who accepted Christ did no such thing. Hence, the requirements were indeed met by not only our Lord when in the flesh, but those of "thy people" & "thy city" who accepted Him.

Again, the others considered "not My people" who rejected Christ are those who carried on with those abominations & practices.

Thirdly, I'd like to highlight the fact that when God anointed our Lord as you mentioned .. you made a slight boo boo .. you see, God the Father is not of "thy people" .. the requirements required one of "thy people" to anoint the Lord, not for God Himself to anoint Him, but one of "thy people" was to anoint Him .. and did.

This is why our Lord made such a big deal of it .. it was a pivotal event whereby her name was to be memorialized for ever to be tied to that anointing given to Him, given by one of "thy people" at that.

If we consider the requirements that God laid out in Daniel 9, and consider that they were made for a people under a very strict law .. and how the Apostle even admitted that no man could keep all of that law :  Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Then what other man on earth besides the Lord Himself could accomplish such a thing as per laid out in the requirements of which we speak? What man/people group by itself is able to bring in everlasting righteousness for example? 

That would take something more than a mere man could achieve, especially a man under the law .. indeed, only a perfect man from amongst "thy people" could achieve that, someone to stand in the breach as it were .. we all know who could and did do that though .. our Lord Jesus the Christ. 

I am only giving brief answers too .. we could get even deeper but that would take a lot of scriptures and much eye strain to achieve, Lol, but my goal is not to convince, but just to give another perspective.

After all, none of this affects our salvation, so I am not overly combative nor feel the need to prove my case .. I merely pose a counter argument is all. 

Cheers AdHoc. 

 

 

 

[AdHoc]

4 hours ago, Serving said:

Hi AdHoc,

Firstly, I'd like to point out that there were two camps in Jesus' day out of "thy people" .. those who accepted Him of "thy people" and those who rejected Him, who would become over time "Not My people" (over time because Jesus was still pleading with the rebels right up till 70ad). 

Yet Hosea reveals to us that even amongst that "not My people" group, they will one day be called "My people" again, correct .. but that event is still future even today for those under the "not My people" camp. 

Secondly, I'd like to point out that Jesus was indeed of "thy people" when made flesh .. besides the lineage provided in Matthew etc, here are a couple of other examples :

Hebrews 2:17
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

John 4:9
Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

Seeing that Jesus was made flesh, born of a woman into the tribe of David being a Jew .. doesn't that in itself show that Jesus was indeed of "thy people" ? 

Of course it does.

Therefore, who amongst "thy people" carried on with the sacrifices and abominations right up until 70ad?

Well, those called "not My people" carried on with those abominations & sacrifices .. the ones who rejected Jesus.

But those of "thy people" who accepted Christ did no such thing. Hence, the requirements were indeed met by not only our Lord when in the flesh, but those of "thy people" & "thy city" who accepted Him.

Again, the others considered "not My people" who rejected Christ are those who carried on with those abominations & practices.

Thirdly, I'd like to highlight the fact that when God anointed our Lord as you mentioned .. you made a slight boo boo .. you see, God the Father is not of "thy people" .. the requirements required one of "thy people" to anoint the Lord, not for God Himself to anoint Him, but one of "thy people" was to anoint Him .. and did.

This is why our Lord made such a big deal of it .. it was a pivotal event whereby her name was to be memorialized for ever to be tied to that anointing given to Him, given by one of "thy people" at that.

If we consider the requirements that God laid out in Daniel 9, and consider that they were made for a people under a very strict law .. and how the Apostle even admitted that no man could keep all of that law :  Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Then what other man on earth besides the Lord Himself could accomplish such a thing as per laid out in the requirements of which we speak? What man/people group by itself is able to bring in everlasting righteousness for example? 

That would take something more than a mere man could achieve, especially a man under the law .. indeed, only a perfect man from amongst "thy people" could achieve that, someone to stand in the breach as it were .. we all know who could and did do that though .. our Lord Jesus the Christ. 

I am only giving brief answers too .. we could get even deeper but that would take a lot of scriptures and much eye strain to achieve, Lol, but my goal is not to convince, but just to give another perspective.

After all, none of this affects our salvation, so I am not overly combative nor feel the need to prove my case .. I merely pose a counter argument is all. 

Cheers AdHoc. 

 

 

 

Greetings "Down under"

Nice to swap ideas in a non-combative mode. You are absolutely correct. This is a matter for Israel, and we look on with interest but not with a view to some crucial doctrine. Instead of me countering point for point, let me just give my understanding for Daniel 9:24; 

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy

"Seventy SEVENS"  - the heptadic structure of scripture introducing the time of the Babylonian Captivity of the 70 Sabbaths that Israel did not give the Land her Sabbath (Lev.26:34, 43) multiplied by the time till the coming Sabbath of Hebrews 3 and 4 - the seventh day for God - the Millennium. The following year would be a Jubilee and a fitting years for every Israelite to be returned to his inheritance. Sir Robert Anderson's calculation is the best I've seen bringing us within four days of the crucifixion of Christ. The 69th SEVEN ends with Messiah cut off and last SEVEN concerns the "Caesar" that Israelite called for at the trial of Jesus. Two antagonists will vie for rulership of the world. Both lay claim, not to Rome, but Jerusalem

"THY people". To allow the profane soldiers of Babylon to enter the Temple without instant death, God forsakes His Land, People, City and House - Israel is left "LO-ammi" (The first Chapters of Ezekiel). Israel will again be called "MY People" by God but only after their gathering to their Land as one people under David (Jer.30:9). The division of Israel into two peoples that you propose does not exist. If an Israelite turns to Jesus he is a New Creature with no past (2nd Cor.5:17). Ethnicity is gone since his origin is now the Holy Spirit and not Jacob. There is NO JEW in the New Man (Gal.3:28, Col.3:11).

"THY Holy City". God once dwelt in this City. He vacated it and it became a ruin. Israel, as a nation, were also ruined, being dispersed in all Nations. At the time of the prophecy Jerusalem is NOT God's City. But Daniel owned it and faced toward it daily. In Millennial glory, it will be home to "Emmanuel" (God WITH us) and be "the city of the great King".

"to finish THE transgression". Israel worship idols in Egypt. God provides a Lamb. They escape judgment. But by Exodus 20 they agree to God's Laws anchored by Covenant. They TRANSGRESS by molding a Golden Calf. They carry their idols through the wilderness and then adopt the idols of Canaan. Because of idol worship Israel go into captivity. There, they "serve other gods". They are chastised 2,000 years, but end it by putting a Gentile king into the Holy Place of the Temple (2nd Thess.2:4). For this God sends "Jacob's Trouble". The Translgression is complete. But how will they avoid it in future?

"By makinga an end of sins". The Law was good, spiritual and given by God. It was under death penalty - serious. The weakness of the Law was man's flesh. Jeremiah 31 promises a New Covenant of Law. This one Israel will keep because they (i) have the Law written inside of them (ii) geta New Spirit, and (iii) get a New Heart. Israel, by intrinsic nature, will keep the Law.

But Israel have sinned and refused faith in Jesus. They might stop sinning, but what of God's just RETRIBUTION? Will God wink at Israel's Millennia of iniquity. But if God does administer justice, Israel ceases to exist and "reconciliation" is thwarted. But reconciliation is Promisd by the prophets - so God's honor is at stake. This is the subject of Romans 9, 10 & 11. Israel are forgive because (i) They have Covenants and the Promises of the prophets and because (ii) Jesus laid the judicial ground work of forgiveness becaue He died for the sin and sins OF THE WORLD (Jn.1:29, 1st Jn.2:2).

I see that there is no short version of this verse, so I'm going to stop here and trust that you have another view of this verse. Whether you agree or not, is, of course, another matter. But I'm sure you'll be fair.

Take care.

[WilliamL]

On 12/27/2023 at 3:20 PM, rollinTHUNDER said:

Now please allow me to tell you why there is a gap, even though it’s not mentioned in Daniel’s prophecy.
.
First, scripture is clear that the sacrifices did not stop in the middle of the week, when Christ was crucified.  The sacrifices continued another 40 years, until the temple was finally destroyed in 70AD. 

I'll deal here just with the gap issue, in light of the words in bold above. This is from the last of my series of blogs on Daniel 9:24-27:

" One issue that has rightly troubled many commentators is the gap in time, presumed by both the future and historical views, between the end of the 69 weeks of years and the beginning of the 70th. Some few people believe there was no gap, and the last seven (or three and one-half) years immediately followed the death of Jesus. However, they can provide no plausible argument for the fulfillment of the seven events prophesied by verses 26b-27. Nothing of the kind occurred in the 30s A.D.

Likewise, the future view has no convincing biblical argument for a nearly 2000-year gap. The historical view does provide a legitimate reason for a gap, however, which is this: 40 years (or days) was Godʼs standard period for the testing of His people Israelʼs obedience. In particular, God tested Israelʼs faithfulness for 40 years after they entered into the Mosaic Covenant at Mount Sinai. All the Israelites of adult age who failed that test died.

God likewise allotted 40 years to test whether the Jewish people, and especially their religious leaders, would accept or reject Christ’s New Covenant. After those 40 years were fulfilled, the rebels against the New Covenant had their holy city and Temple destroyed, which effectively ended many mandated practices of the Old Covenant. That covenant required both a Temple and a place to gather for the yearly festivals of the Law. Both places were destroyed, and the Temple was never rebuilt.

Jesus prophesied just such a “desolation” for the city, people, and Temple of his day, saying that these were “the things having been written.” Luke 21:22; “the things” referring to the events of verses 6 and 20-21. Only one Old Testament “written” prophecy fulfills this statement, and that is the passage of Daniel 9:24-27. (Micah 3:12 was not fulfilled until the aftermath of the Bar Kokhba War, which ended in 135 A.D.) In particular, Jesus singled out the corrupted and rebellious religious leaders of his day – ha-poshim/the apostates (Dan. 8:23) – whose pesha would soon be “utterly restrained” (9:24):

Matthew 23:29 “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! … 31 …you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. … 35 …upon you shall come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth… 36 Truly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem… 38 Behold, your house [that is, the Temple] is left to you desolate.”

In saying these words, Jesus was in effect both witnessing to and re-decreeing the “decreed desolations” of Daniel 9:26b and 27, and prophesying that those desolations would be fulfilled during the generation of the first century A.D. Which they were. "

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1611-daniel-924-27-examined-part-7-were-verses-26b-27-fulfilled-historically/

[Serving]

On 12/29/2023 at 10:14 PM, AdHoc said:

Greetings "Down under"

Nice to swap ideas in a non-combative mode. You are absolutely correct. This is a matter for Israel, and we look on with interest but not with a view to some crucial doctrine. Instead of me countering point for point, let me just give my understanding for Daniel 9:24; 

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy

"Seventy SEVENS"  - the heptadic structure of scripture introducing the time of the Babylonian Captivity of the 70 Sabbaths that Israel did not give the Land her Sabbath (Lev.26:34, 43) multiplied by the time till the coming Sabbath of Hebrews 3 and 4 - the seventh day for God - the Millennium. The following year would be a Jubilee and a fitting years for every Israelite to be returned to his inheritance. Sir Robert Anderson's calculation is the best I've seen bringing us within four days of the crucifixion of Christ. The 69th SEVEN ends with Messiah cut off and last SEVEN concerns the "Caesar" that Israelite called for at the trial of Jesus. Two antagonists will vie for rulership of the world. Both lay claim, not to Rome, but Jerusalem

"THY people". To allow the profane soldiers of Babylon to enter the Temple without instant death, God forsakes His Land, People, City and House - Israel is left "LO-ammi" (The first Chapters of Ezekiel). Israel will again be called "MY People" by God but only after their gathering to their Land as one people under David (Jer.30:9). The division of Israel into two peoples that you propose does not exist. If an Israelite turns to Jesus he is a New Creature with no past (2nd Cor.5:17). Ethnicity is gone since his origin is now the Holy Spirit and not Jacob. There is NO JEW in the New Man (Gal.3:28, Col.3:11).

"THY Holy City". God once dwelt in this City. He vacated it and it became a ruin. Israel, as a nation, were also ruined, being dispersed in all Nations. At the time of the prophecy Jerusalem is NOT God's City. But Daniel owned it and faced toward it daily. In Millennial glory, it will be home to "Emmanuel" (God WITH us) and be "the city of the great King".

"to finish THE transgression". Israel worship idols in Egypt. God provides a Lamb. They escape judgment. But by Exodus 20 they agree to God's Laws anchored by Covenant. They TRANSGRESS by molding a Golden Calf. They carry their idols through the wilderness and then adopt the idols of Canaan. Because of idol worship Israel go into captivity. There, they "serve other gods". They are chastised 2,000 years, but end it by putting a Gentile king into the Holy Place of the Temple (2nd Thess.2:4). For this God sends "Jacob's Trouble". The Translgression is complete. But how will they avoid it in future?

"By makinga an end of sins". The Law was good, spiritual and given by God. It was under death penalty - serious. The weakness of the Law was man's flesh. Jeremiah 31 promises a New Covenant of Law. This one Israel will keep because they (i) have the Law written inside of them (ii) geta New Spirit, and (iii) get a New Heart. Israel, by intrinsic nature, will keep the Law.

But Israel have sinned and refused faith in Jesus. They might stop sinning, but what of God's just RETRIBUTION? Will God wink at Israel's Millennia of iniquity. But if God does administer justice, Israel ceases to exist and "reconciliation" is thwarted. But reconciliation is Promisd by the prophets - so God's honor is at stake. This is the subject of Romans 9, 10 & 11. Israel are forgive because (i) They have Covenants and the Promises of the prophets and because (ii) Jesus laid the judicial ground work of forgiveness becaue He died for the sin and sins OF THE WORLD (Jn.1:29, 1st Jn.2:2).

I see that there is no short version of this verse, so I'm going to stop here and trust that you have another view of this verse. Whether you agree or not, is, of course, another matter. But I'm sure you'll be fair.

Take care.

Hey AdHoc,

I just deleted my reply because it was very sloppy and I want to redo it so it is clearer .. I should have proof read before posting .. sorry bro .. I will repost my reply tonight or tomorrow.

 

regards.

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Serving
sloppy thoughts

[Serving]

 

Hey if anybody read my reply to AdHoc, I apologize for deleting it, it was very sloppy and I want to rewrite it so it's more understandable .. I should have proof read it properly .. very sloppy indeed on my behalf.

Sorry guys.

[Serving]

On 12/29/2023 at 10:14 PM, AdHoc said:

Greetings "Down under"

Nice to swap ideas in a non-combative mode. You are absolutely correct. This is a matter for Israel, and we look on with interest but not with a view to some crucial doctrine. Instead of me countering point for point, let me just give my understanding for Daniel 9:24; 

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy

"Seventy SEVENS"  - the heptadic structure of scripture introducing the time of the Babylonian Captivity of the 70 Sabbaths that Israel did not give the Land her Sabbath (Lev.26:34, 43) multiplied by the time till the coming Sabbath of Hebrews 3 and 4 - the seventh day for God - the Millennium. The following year would be a Jubilee and a fitting years for every Israelite to be returned to his inheritance. Sir Robert Anderson's calculation is the best I've seen bringing us within four days of the crucifixion of Christ. The 69th SEVEN ends with Messiah cut off and last SEVEN concerns the "Caesar" that Israelite called for at the trial of Jesus. Two antagonists will vie for rulership of the world. Both lay claim, not to Rome, but Jerusalem

"THY people". To allow the profane soldiers of Babylon to enter the Temple without instant death, God forsakes His Land, People, City and House - Israel is left "LO-ammi" (The first Chapters of Ezekiel). Israel will again be called "MY People" by God but only after their gathering to their Land as one people under David (Jer.30:9). The division of Israel into two peoples that you propose does not exist. If an Israelite turns to Jesus he is a New Creature with no past (2nd Cor.5:17). Ethnicity is gone since his origin is now the Holy Spirit and not Jacob. There is NO JEW in the New Man (Gal.3:28, Col.3:11).

"THY Holy City". God once dwelt in this City. He vacated it and it became a ruin. Israel, as a nation, were also ruined, being dispersed in all Nations. At the time of the prophecy Jerusalem is NOT God's City. But Daniel owned it and faced toward it daily. In Millennial glory, it will be home to "Emmanuel" (God WITH us) and be "the city of the great King".

"to finish THE transgression". Israel worship idols in Egypt. God provides a Lamb. They escape judgment. But by Exodus 20 they agree to God's Laws anchored by Covenant. They TRANSGRESS by molding a Golden Calf. They carry their idols through the wilderness and then adopt the idols of Canaan. Because of idol worship Israel go into captivity. There, they "serve other gods". They are chastised 2,000 years, but end it by putting a Gentile king into the Holy Place of the Temple (2nd Thess.2:4). For this God sends "Jacob's Trouble". The Translgression is complete. But how will they avoid it in future?

"By makinga an end of sins". The Law was good, spiritual and given by God. It was under death penalty - serious. The weakness of the Law was man's flesh. Jeremiah 31 promises a New Covenant of Law. This one Israel will keep because they (i) have the Law written inside of them (ii) geta New Spirit, and (iii) get a New Heart. Israel, by intrinsic nature, will keep the Law.

But Israel have sinned and refused faith in Jesus. They might stop sinning, but what of God's just RETRIBUTION? Will God wink at Israel's Millennia of iniquity. But if God does administer justice, Israel ceases to exist and "reconciliation" is thwarted. But reconciliation is Promisd by the prophets - so God's honor is at stake. This is the subject of Romans 9, 10 & 11. Israel are forgive because (i) They have Covenants and the Promises of the prophets and because (ii) Jesus laid the judicial ground work of forgiveness becaue He died for the sin and sins OF THE WORLD (Jn.1:29, 1st Jn.2:2).

I see that there is no short version of this verse, so I'm going to stop here and trust that you have another view of this verse. Whether you agree or not, is, of course, another matter. But I'm sure you'll be fair.

Take care.

Hi AdHoc, 

I fixed my reply to you bro ..

This has to do with this :

Quote

"Seventy SEVENS"  - the heptadic structure of scripture introducing the time of the Babylonian Captivity of the 70 Sabbaths that Israel did not give the Land her Sabbath (Lev.26:34, 43) multiplied by the time till the coming Sabbath of Hebrews 3 and 4 - the seventh day for God - the Millennium. The following year would be a Jubilee and a fitting years for every Israelite to be returned to his inheritance. Sir Robert Anderson's calculation is the best I've seen bringing us within four days of the crucifixion of Christ. The 69th SEVEN ends with Messiah cut off and last SEVEN concerns the "Caesar" that Israelite called for at the trial of Jesus. Two antagonists will vie for rulership of the world. Both lay claim, not to Rome, but Jerusalem

Seeing we have differences at the very beginning of our understanding of the above, I thought I'd show you my interpretation of it so you know how I interpret the 7o sevens ..

Key > The blue highlights are to do with the 7 weeks (the rebuilding period).. the green concerns the 62 weeks unto Messiah the Prince, and the orange being the assumed last week, the 70th week at this stage .. reasons why coming up.

===

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

===

Now this word : "unto" .. "unto the Messiah the Prince" I see as saying count up to Messiah the Prince, up to Messiah's arrival,  up to the start of His ministry ..  so that at the end of 62 weeks (+7 weeks) Messiah will appear.

So the 62 week (+7) count stops when Messiah appears .. hence "unto" Messiah the Prince.

This would also explain why the 70th week, or the 1 week was not mentioned at the very start wasn't mentioned yet because the 62 week count stopped at His arrival .. that is, 7 weeks + 62 weeks had passed and Messiah only just appears in the text.

So by that method alone, anything coming after the 62 (+ 7) weeks means it must be talking about the 70th week right? 

Now look at what comes next in v26 below .. the signifier word being "after"

===

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

===

So there it is .. it says after the 62 weeks Messiah is cut off .. after 69 weeks in total to be precise.

Which means that it has to be talking about the last week, the 70th week in orange  because after 62 (+7) weeks comes week #70.

Which also means that v27 below must also be talking about the last week because it carries on from the verse before it which takes place after the 62 weeks as mentioned ..

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”  

And that's about it AdHoc .. I hope the  colourful format I tried out isn't too off-putting and got my point across?

Cheers Ad.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Serving

[douggg]

The proof with 100% certainty that there is a gap between the 69th week and the 70th week is Ezekiel 39 gives the framework of the 70th week.

Gog/Magog event, then the 7 years in verses 9-10, then Armageddon event in verses 17-20, then Jesus Himself speaking in the text in verses 21-29 having returned to this earth.