God’s Israel is the only nation that shall be left in the end.

[Stewardofthemystery]

11 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I am aware that this belief is held by the majority. But consider this;

A Tree in Parable is a king and his kingdom (Judg.9, Dan.4, Ezek.31) The Olive Tree of Romans 11 is made of (1) a Root which is holy, (2) natural branches which are Israel and are cut OUT during this age, and (3) wild branches which are grafted in but under threat to be cut out in future. To designate the Root to be Israel you have to say that they are not the natural branches, but the stem. And after rejecting their King - Jesus, giving Him a farce trial, murdering Him and then murdering His disciples, you have to call them "holy". Both are untrue.

Much more, if one dos not enter private interpretation, and interprets scripture with scripture, the Olive Tree is Christ's Kingdom in this age and the next. Christ ("that holy Thing" - Lk.1:35), is the Root /Stem. Israel were to be leading Nation but forfeit the Kingdom (Matt.21:43) and so are the Natural Branches but cut off till their restoration in the next age (Act.15:14-16). The wild branches are ex-gentiles who have been born again and Baptized and are grafted into the Kingdom, but, if they fail at the judgment Seat of Christ, will be removed from the kingdom (Parables of the Talents, Pounds, Virgins and Wedding Feast).

Regarding Ephesians 2:11-13, it is not complete until verse 15. There it reaches its conclusion and a New Man is created with SOME OUT OF Israel, and SOME OUT OF the Nations. At no time is a Gentile Believer mad an Israelite. They are made "nigh" to TWO THINGS: (1) The Covenant of Promises made to Abraham and his Seed, and (2) to the COMMONWEALTH of Israel.

(1) Abraham was a Gentile idol-worshiper - a Syrian. God stipulated that Abraham's seed must come from the line of Isaac. Esau sold his birthright, so the offspring of Jacob are Abraham's seed. But then came Jesus - THE Seed of Abraham (Gal.3) and according to John 12:24 the many seeds of the Church came out of Christ - the New Man. Thus, Galatians 3:28 says that ethnicity is abolished in this New Man, and verse 29 says that those who are Christ's are the seed of Abraham and heirs to the Promises.

(2) A COMMONWEALTH is a group of independent nations which trade with the privileges of the leading country BUT DO NOT LOSE THEIR CITIZENSHIP OR SOVEREIGNTY. A New Zealander has the trade privileges of Great Britain but keeps New Zealand Law, type of government and citizenship.

In BOTH ISSUES of Ephesians 2:11-13 a Believer becomes HEIR to the Promises and the privileges of Abraham WITHOUT EVER BECOMING AN ISRAELITE. Further, by TWO other means does God make the ex-gentile believer an HEIR without becoming an Israelite. (1) By being BORN of the Holy Spirit. John 3:3-5 makes the believer a son of God and eligible for the kingdom if immersed in water. Baptism replaces circumcision (Col.2:10-12). (2) By ADOPTION. Adoption puts a strange child into the will of the adoptive father.

What do you make of this prophecy here about the kingdoms of the world; the part about “no place was found for them” and that God’s Kingdom not being left to “other people.”

Daniel 2:31-45

King James Version

31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.

32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,

33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, (((that no place was found for them:)))and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

36 This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.

37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.

38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: (((and the kingdom shall not be left to other people,)))but it shall break in pieces and consume (((all these kingdoms,))) and it shall stand for ever.

45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.”

[Stewardofthemystery]

6 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

So when are you claiming the Lord delivered the Egyptians from the hand of their enemies and made them holy?When are you claiming Assyria,Egypt and Israel were all a blessing in the land at the same time?When did God bless his people Egypt?

 

 

²⁰ And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the Lord because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.

²¹ And the Lord shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the Lord in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the Lord, and perform it.

²² And the Lord shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the Lord, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them.

²³ In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.

²⁴ In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:

²⁵ Whom the Lord of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance

During the thousand year reign of Christ on earth there shall be a remnant of other peoples from other nations gathered into the Kingdom; but that time period is not “after the end”.

1 Corinthians 15:24

Then cometh (((the end,))) when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down (((all rule and all authority and power.)))

 

[Shilohsfoal]

40 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

During the thousand year reign of Christ on earth there shall be a remnant of other peoples from other nations gathered into the Kingdom; but that time period is not “after the end”.

1 Corinthians 15:24

Then cometh (((the end,))) when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down (((all rule and all authority and power.)))

 

During the millinium ,there will be other nations all over the world.

Now I understand that no one can live in Egypt for 40 years but after forty years there will be.

 

Egypt

¹⁰ Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia.

¹¹ No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years.

¹² And I will make the land of Egypt desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate, and her cities among the cities that are laid waste shall be desolate forty years: and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and will disperse them through the countries.

¹³ Yet thus saith the Lord God; At the end of forty years will I gather the Egyptians from the people whither they were scattered:

¹⁴ And I will bring again the captivity of Egypt, and will cause them to return into the land of Pathros, into the land of their habitation; and they shall be there a base kingdom.

¹⁵ It shall be the basest of the kingdoms; neither shall it exalt itself any more above the nations: for I will diminish them, that they shall no more rule over the nations.

 

 

Egypt still a kingdom.Not as powerful as Ethiopia or Magog ,but it's still a kingdom and Egyptians will live there during the millinium.After the millinium,the nations which you say don't exist will invade the land of Israel.Exept Egypt,it's to lowly of a kingdom to attack anyone.

[Stewardofthemystery]

20 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

During the millinium ,there will be other nations all over the world.

Now I understand that no one can live in Egypt for 40 years but after forty years there will be.

 

Egypt

¹⁰ Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia.

¹¹ No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years.

¹² And I will make the land of Egypt desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate, and her cities among the cities that are laid waste shall be desolate forty years: and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and will disperse them through the countries.

¹³ Yet thus saith the Lord God; At the end of forty years will I gather the Egyptians from the people whither they were scattered:

¹⁴ And I will bring again the captivity of Egypt, and will cause them to return into the land of Pathros, into the land of their habitation; and they shall be there a base kingdom.

¹⁵ It shall be the basest of the kingdoms; neither shall it exalt itself any more above the nations: for I will diminish them, that they shall no more rule over the nations.

 

 

Egypt still a kingdom.Not as powerful as Ethiopia or Magog ,but it's still a kingdom and Egyptians will live there during the millinium.After the millinium,the nations which you say don't exist will invade the land of Israel.Exept Egypt,it's to lowly of a kingdom to attack anyone.

The dominion of those other nations is taken away during the thousand years…..

Daniel 7:12

As concerning the rest of the beasts, (((they had their dominion taken away:)))yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. (= 1,000 years)

 

After which Satan is loosed to deceive the remnant of those “nations”…

Revelation 20:8

And shall go out to deceive “the nations”which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

But all those peoples and nations are consumed by Gods wrath when they come against God’s Israel and Jerusalem. ( camp of the saints)

 

⁹ And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, (((and devoured them.)))

 

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

After the end there is to be a new heaven and new earth, and there will be “no more heathen nations”, which is symbolized by there being “no more sea.”

Revelation 21:1

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was (((no more sea.)))

 

The “seas and many waters” in scripture represents many peoples, nations, and tongues…

 

Isaiah 17:12

Woe to the multitude of ((many people,)) which make a noise like the noise of the ((seas;))and to the rushing of ((nations,))that make a rushing like the rushing of mighty ((waters!))

 

 

Revelation 17:15

And he saith unto me, The ((waters))which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are (((peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.)))

 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

2 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

The dominion of those other nations is taken away during the thousand years…..

Daniel 7:12

As concerning the rest of the beasts, (((they had their dominion taken away:)))yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. (= 1,000 years)

 

After which Satan is loosed to deceive the remnant of those “nations”…

Revelation 20:8

And shall go out to deceive “the nations”which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

But all those peoples and nations are consumed by Gods wrath when they come against God’s Israel and Jerusalem. ( camp of the saints)

 

⁹ And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, (((and devoured them.)))

 

 

You said there are no other nations.

No Ethiopia,no Persia,no Magog.No Egypt.

[AdHoc]

12 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

What do you make of this prophecy here about the kingdoms of the world; the part about “no place was found for them” and that God’s Kingdom not being left to “other people.”

Daniel 2:31-45

King James Version

31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.

32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,

33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, (((that no place was found for them:)))and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

36 This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.

37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.

38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: (((and the kingdom shall not be left to other people,)))but it shall break in pieces and consume (((all these kingdoms,))) and it shall stand for ever.

45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.”

The dream is explained in the verses but your question is valid.

The text is written in Aramaic because God is addressing a Gentile. From the text we see that scripture handles FOUR elements, then it adds a FIFTH to the fourth. That is, there are four kingdoms and the fourth is modified. Some scholars maintain that there are five. But the clay is an ADDITION to the iron - not a new part of the body. Since Nebuchadnezzar is the first, the rest must sequential kingdoms. The elements I judge to be to be different forms of government. Gold is AUTOCRACY for Nebuchadnezzar was supreme and needed so authorization for his decisions. Persian kings relied on the Nobility and so silver speaks of ARISTOCRACY. Greece was MILITARY (brass is for weapons) and Rome was DEMOCRACY mixed with military intervention.

The stone not cut out by hands thus battles ONLY ONE kingdom, but His victory brings the whole to collapse. The figure then must be a common denominator. What the head stood for must be equally stood for by the feet. There was only one common factor - the religion of all four powers was the same - the religion of Babel and Nimrod. In Revelation 17 all religions are destroyed by the ten kings who gave the Beast his power so that the Beast can receive all worship.

The Stone that dashes the figure to powder is Christ. The people who the new kingdom is left to must be that of Christ's choice for Daniel 4:17, still addressing a gentile king, causes that infidel king to admit that God puts who He wants as ruler. It is "OTHER people". There are FOUR Kingdom and NONE will rule the everlasting kingdom. Then there are DANIEL'S PEOPLE. A GENTILE king will rule them. Thus, the OTHER people must be Christ's disciples. To His DISCIPLES Jesus says;

28  Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations. 29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; 30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones ... (Lk 22:28–30)

or

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over ALL his goods. (Mt 24:45–47)

To Israel, He said;

42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. 45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. (Mt 21:42–45)

 

[AdHoc]

10 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

After the end there is to be a new heaven and new earth, and there will be “no more heathen nations”, which is symbolized by there being “no more sea.”

It could mean this, but it could also mean death. We have the Nations in Revelation 21 on the New Earth, but death is defeated by the resurrection of the White Throne. See also 1st Corinthians 15:22.

[Marilyn C]

On 1/4/2024 at 11:41 AM, AdHoc said:

Some scholars maintain that there are five. But the clay is an ADDITION to the iron - not a new part of the body. Since Nebuchadnezzar is the first, the rest must sequential kingdoms.

The elements I judge to be to be different forms of government. Gold is AUTOCRACY for Nebuchadnezzar was supreme and needed so authorization for his decisions. Persian kings relied on the Nobility and so silver speaks of ARISTOCRACY. Greece was MILITARY (brass is for weapons) and Rome was DEMOCRACY mixed with military intervention.

 

 

Interesting thoughts there AH.

I believe there are 5 kingdoms represented by the Great Image. The materials of gold, silver, brass, iron & iron and clay represent the strength of each rulership.

Like you said Babylon was autocratic - the king`s word was law. The Medes and Persians were `inferior`. (Dan. 2: 39). Rome was `as strong as iron.` (Dan. 2: 40) And then the `divided kingdom` was `partly strong and partly fragile.` (Dan. 2: 42)

[AdHoc]

7 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Interesting thoughts there AH.

I believe there are 5 kingdoms represented by the Great Image. The materials of gold, silver, brass, iron & iron and clay represent the strength of each rulership.

Like you said Babylon was autocratic - the king`s word was law. The Medes and Persians were `inferior`. (Dan. 2: 39). Rome was `as strong as iron.` (Dan. 2: 40) And then the `divided kingdom` was `partly strong and partly fragile.` (Dan. 2: 42)

We are not far apart.

Go well.