The Real Answer to Antisemitism

[Mr. M]

47 minutes ago, Starise said:

I was unable to click the links in the OP, so sorry if this is drifting.

You mean the Jacob and Esau thing? My take on that is God hated Esau for the PURPOSES he intended, especially since he married foreign wives and did not expressly follow the ways of GOd.. God doesn't hate anyone. Probably the same terminology could have been used for Saul when he went to the witch. God rejected (hated) him as king after that. Both Saul and Esau are likley in safe keeping in glory with the Lord.

To say otherwise is to imply that God makes people He hates to burn which does not show a God of love. God knew he would dislike Esau when He made him, but he serves as a contrast to Jacob. Jacob was not the typical front runner and it seems God is always doing these kinds of things in intentionally using the underdog. Jacob was second born and not the intended recipient of the blessing, at least in the world's eyes.  David was similar in that he was looked over in the pick for king. 

If Paul said God is no respecter of persons I believe it. I see position as beng used to determine favor, when really favor is always used to benefit others and not necessarily a special endowment on them other than they were blessed to be chosen for a purpose. There were women God surely "hated" for the mother of Jesus, but Mary was highly favored.

This is common, to read Romans and think that the scriptures

are referring to the men Jacob and Esau:

Romans 9:13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved,

but Esau I have hated.”

Looking back at what Paul is actually quoting:

Malachi 1:

2 “I have loved you,” says the Lord.
“Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’
Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?”
Says the Lord.
“Yet Jacob I have loved;
3 But Esau I have hated,
And laid waste his mountains and his heritage
For the jackals of the wilderness.”

4 Even though Edom has said,
“We have been impoverished,
But we will return and build the desolate places,”

Here Esau is a reference to the nation of his lineage,

the Edomites, even as Jacob is often used in reference

to the children of Israel.

When the Lord says, Esau I have hated, it is not the man,

it is the nation that rejoiced when Jerusalem and His Temple

were destroyed by Babylon.

Psalm 137:7 Remember, O Lord, the children of Edom in the day

of Jerusalem; who said, "Raze it, raze it, even to the foundation thereof".

Edited January 2 by Mr. M

[Mr. M]

6 minutes ago, Starise said:

Funny I would have taken you for Jewish by your online pic. I see the combination of Jews and Gentiles as we are on the same tree 'grafted" together. They have their functions for the Lord and we have ours, so yes there is neither Jew nor Gentile and that's the only way to see it.

The law of Moses as in Mosaic law? That was set aside. Even the ten commandments were later reduced to only two.

I hate to see it as what's in it for us ( the gentiles) but if there is nothing in it for us it is irrelevent to who and what we are. Let the Jews fo be jewish and we will stay to ourselves. Of course I don't believe this or I wouldn't be here. 

Not setting out to make anyone jealous lol. I would hope that what we are and do has a lot more depth than that. I don't think He minds us Gentiles calling Him Jesus because He sees the heart. 

Yes, "Jewish" is no longer a thing of lineage IMO, but I do see an element of God's love for the Jews to bring them back to where they belong. There is a special place in God's heart for them, yet all who call on the Lord will be saved. Will there be segregation in the New Jerusalem?

Romans 3:

1 What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? 

2 Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. 

3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make

the faithfulness of God without effect? 

4 Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written:

That You may be justified in Your words,
And may overcome when You are judged.

People greatly underestimate the burden of the Jew,

and the reward that awaits them.

Psalm 68:11 The Lord gave the word;
Great was the company of those who proclaimed it.

Acts 15:10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the

neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Do the saints really comprehend this???

Romans 11:

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake,

but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 

29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 

30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained

mercy through their disobedience, 

31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy

shown you they also may obtain mercy. 

32 For God has committed them all to disobedience,

that He might have mercy on all.

[Neighbor]

2 minutes ago, Starise said:

Funny I would have taken you for Jewish by your online pic.

Hi,

My avatar? It is the "Grafted in" representation believed to be from the second century AD.

Am I Jewish? Not by lineage of race near as I can tell. By lineage of "faith" I am atheist, the son  of an atheist, turned about rather abruptly one day by the Holy Spirit for God's purposes. so whatever I am, I am without any personal merit being responsible. Can't claim anything but the mercy of God being worked out by God for whatever His good purposes may be.

13 minutes ago, Starise said:

The law of Moses as in Mosaic law? That was set aside. Even the ten commandments were later reduced to only two.

 

I can only write, or copy paste, what God has shared within his word recorded as the sermon on the Mount by Yeshua. "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

As I understand it, Jesus stepped up our personal responsibility at that sermon when he stated  that even our thought of doing sin is sin itself. 

[Know Jah]

What's really interesting is that the Jewish linage can't be traced with any real accuracy because of the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple. There is no pure race. All are mixed

[Rick-Parker]

50 minutes ago, Starise said:

You mean the Jacob and Esau thing?

I believe a better translation of the word "hate" should have been "loved less" as GOD is Love.

[Marathoner]

I believe @Neighbor frames it properly: Christianity is not a combination of Jewish and Gentile. Those distinctions have been cast away entirely in Christ.

Those distinctions existed when the Lord came in the flesh and for a time after He ascended to sit with the Father upon His throne. This was new and so Paul labored to impress upon those of Jewish heritage and custom how the Law itself pointed toward this very thing and provided for this eventuality: those who were under the dominion of the Law are freed from it when they die.

The Law only has dominion over the Jew while they live. In Christ, a Jew dies with Him and is accordingly freed from its dominion, raised in newness of life. We who were never Jews also die with Christ and are raised with Him in newness of life, making us one in the Son of God. We are a new creation in Him.

This was hard for Jewish people to understand during those days, so the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to explain these things to those who were once Jews. Christ sets all men free in Him, not just some.

[Neighbor]

On 1/2/2024 at 5:45 AM, Neighbor said:

The Real Answer to Antisemitism

Life Lessons From the Parshah - Shemot

By Yehoshua B. Gordon  may be found online for those that may be interested in a point of view, perhaps one with some useful insight. When searching see Chabad(Dot)org

Morning all, 

Still trying to explore  the reason for antisemitism, I do encourage others to look up  the above article by  a guest writer,  Yehoshua B. Gordon   "Life Lessons From the Parshah - Shemot". Hey the article  even opens with a sample of Jewish humor tale. Always fun to read and explore those, eh!

So why an anti Jew movement? Does the mind go to remembrance of World War Two history  photos,  to Hitler's people with their horrific acts with His leading the Germanic nation?  Okay  but what of the real beginnings and the vestiges of history exposed to us within the Bible  and in extra Biblical books, and even in archaeology?

What is the "real" beginnings, and the whys of antisemitism? It certainly predates the rise of a Hitler at Germany in the mid to late 1930's that led to what is called  "The Holocaust". Has that not been earlier Holocausts with antisemitism and death to large number of Jews?  WHY? How far back does this go in time that we might learn about for the purpose of seeing that  this is a spiritual war being fought out here and now, in the flesh; and that possibly just possibly it is of advantage to each  of us  to see past recent history, back to origins and earlier history of antisemitism. 

 I do think the article is a helpful introduction,  a bit of a primer, into the subject.

My own hope is that I may become much better enlightened- so that I am not led to and fro by current snippets of events on  various "news" media. Might you join, share and if nothing else help me in that goal for my enlightenment? I think it important, for my own relationship with my Lord and savior. Perhaps there are some others that may want to share of what they discover for themself or already have knowledge about.

Thanks for reading. May God enlighten ( Me - us) to a better understanding, and then to best use of that knowledge. 

 

[Neighbor]

Just an added  phrase "I, the Lord, will hasten it in its time.”  Posted here as a further enticement to look into origins: Seems the sojourn to a place of open gates with peace is a matter of time, hastened at it's (appointed) time. Quickly done, rather than done sooner, when it comes to  it's appointed time?

I think so. And so to me it seems reasonable and perhaps even vital to fullest service as soldiers in  the service to our Lord and savior Jesus ( Yeshua) to know the origins of such things as pervasive antisemitism.

Edited January 3 by Neighbor
added word appointed

[FJK]

21 hours ago, Starise said:

Yes, "Jewish" is no longer a thing of lineage IMO, but I do see an element of God's love for the Jews to bring them back to where they belong. There is a special place in God's heart for them, yet all who call on the Lord will be saved. Will there be segregation in the New Jerusalem?

If there is no lineage of the true Jews -of Israel- then there will be no fulfillment of prophecy since there is no one to fulfill them, Satan won, God lost, it's all over.

That's if there are no authentic Jews.

But I think there are, one of the reasons is that Jews make up about 0.2% of the worlds population jet they have such a profound impact on the world, the world revolving around them and their presence more than any other factor.

I don't see how that could be if it were not for God's special purpose for them,. a people he has protected against all earthly odds for thousands of years so that they are still here to play the role God has assigned to them in these later days.

This is what I believe.

[Starise]

21 hours ago, Mr. M said:

2 Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. 

The "conduit" I mentioned. Is that how you see it? God came through them with a gentile or two thrown into the lineage of Christ.

49 minutes ago, FJK said:

If there is no lineage of the true Jews -of Israel- then there will be no fulfillment of prophecy since there is no one to fulfill them, Satan won, God lost, it's all over.

That's if there are no authentic Jews.

But I think there are, one of the reasons is that Jews make up about 0.2% of the worlds population jet they have such a profound impact on the world, the world revolving around them and their presence more than any other factor.

I don't see how that could be if it were not for God's special purpose for them,. a people he has protected against all earthly odds for thousands of years so that they are still here to play the role God has assigned to them in these later days.

This is what I believe.

Good points.

I was separating the spiritual from the physical . Spiritually speaking we are of a spiritual circumcision through Christ as gentiles that puts us into the same collective area as Jews if we are believers in Christ. Physically speaking we are seperate and they have a dedicated function.

The next question is how this thought is divided up because some believe ALL Jews will be saved, yet even Jesus told some of the Jews they had committed the unpardonable sin, so I don't see the biblical statements as 100% collective to ALL Jews. Unfortunately some Jews will go to hell just like the rest of us. I see God using a segment of the Jewish people for His ultimate purposes and outcomes. This all sounds very sterile, but God LOVES them as well. They were sequentially loved first even though they rebelled at various times and rejected Him.

The Jews have an impact on the world IMO because they are  in God's plans, especially for the future. I don't see this as the people themselves pulling ahead of anyone else. I see it as God's providence using them to be influential. In the spiritual dimension, satan HATES them because he knows they are used of God.Same reason he hates us if we are doing what we are supposed to be doing.

Adam wasn't Jewish as that nation had not even been developed yet, yet in regards to Satan it was predicted that he would do damage to mankind but through mankind his head would be crushed ( Jesus ). The idea at the very beginning was inclusive of all mankind.

The NT message as I read it from Paul is this:

- If you're Jewish, God has progressed to a new all inclusive system based on faith on Christ. You are no less Jew. Don't become prideful and tout your jewishness ( is that a word ?) Don't become puffed up thinking you are somehow superior because God chose your people as His conduit to the world. Feel blessed because you are blessed if you follow the progression.If you stay in the old ways they lead to death.

-If you're Gentile, realize that you are just as valued that Christ died for you. Do not be sucked into any old school Jewish systems which have been superceeded. Do not disrespect your brothers and sisters in Christ who are Jews. Neither hold them on a pedestal. Just acknowledge that they are blessed and used of God in special ways.

I don't believe there is segregation in the new kingdom, only differences of function. 

The danger I see on this forum occasionally if looking at this through a nationalistic lens, is the thought that ALL jews will be saved just because they are jews or that ALL Jews in Israel are somehow special and will miss judgement. Or the idea that Israel has been supplanted by "christians" I don't believe this is accurate either. There are some zany ideas out there that don't hold up under scutiny.