Why there are no two Witnesses of Moses with Elijah and 144k Sealed Hebrew in modern Israel

[tatwo]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I know people who have power that fire proceeds from their mouths and kills their enemies.They are serving in the king of the norths armed forces.Many of them are evangelicals.They arrive in Jerusalem 3.5 years before the time of the end .

The "consuming fire" that proceeds from these witnesses is an entirely different form of "fire" friend...and it performs a different kind of "killing" as well.

Item of note...your posts are somewhat "back and forth...perhaps rhetorical" within the post itself...are you doing alright? Seriously...:)

Tatwo...:)

[Shilohsfoal]

14 minutes ago, tatwo said:

The "consuming fire" that proceeds from these witnesses is an entirely different form of "fire" friend...and it performs a different kind of "killing" as well.

Item of note...your posts are somewhat "back and forth...perhaps rhetorical" within the post itself...are you doing alright? Seriously...:)

Tatwo...:)

No.

I'm talking about the two witnesses of Jesus who do everything Jesus commands them not to do in the gospel.

They arrive in Israel 3.5 years before the time of the end.Fire will proceed from their mouths.

 

Daniel 11:31

His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.

 

They will torment and kill people for 42 months.Then they will be defeated.

[tatwo]

18 hours ago, AdHoc said:

You are right about the New Man having no Jew or Greek. It is a fully NEW CREATION (2nd Cor.5:17). Just remember that in Ephesians 2:15 God makes this New Man OUT OF TWO OLD MEN. That is, te New Man is made of SOME ISRAELITES and SOME HEATHEN.

So then perhaps we can agree that “one man - gentiles” (all who are not Israel) in the flesh” having no hope and without God in the world…the other man “Israel in the flesh” as denoted by the circumcision…of…the “flesh” by other “men.” Two separate groups that are both considered “in the flesh” as depicted. In the “flesh” meaning their anthropomorphic existence as “mere men.”

In the conjoining of the “two” groups it is the “blood of Christ” (scourge, crucifixion and death) as the active agent in making it possible for them to be made “one – in Him.” It is essentially in the destruction of…“His own flesh as a Jew no less”…that He successfully removes that which divides the “circumcision (1) from the uncircumcision (2)” which is "the Law of commandments contained in ordinances."

This is the actual break down of the very thing which was set as the divider itself. Of course…He is the absolute fulfillment of all the Law and Prophets…so it all makes sense…no more enslavement to the Law required…though it is still applicable for the lawless (heathen).

Put another way…the Lord Yahshua via His death spans the gulf of enmity and hatred that existed because of the “Law of commandments contained in ordinances” between the carnal fleshly (unspiritual) gentiles and His own carnal fleshly people (unspiritual)….Israel.

This so that in Himself He might make the two into “one new man,” thus establishing peace,  and might reconcile them both in “one body” to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

18 hours ago, AdHoc said:

As you know, many are not used for the New Man.

Perhaps on the day of Pentecost the number could be considered “few” “about three thousand souls” and at that time the record reflects that whatever the number actually was …it is likely they were all Israeli. It does not seem like the “gentiles” were in the mix just yet. So to me “many are not used…few” whatever…those who were “used” all constituted the “revealing” if you will of this “One New Man in Christ.” Of course that number has grown resoundingly since.

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

18 hours ago, AdHoc said:

That means that there are many Israelites still, and there are many of the Nations left over. Thus, there are THREE peoples on earth. (i) The New Man, (ii) Te Nations, and (iii) The Nation of Israel.

So then here is where we diverge on the matter AdHoc. You see three peoples on the earth…however spiritually speaking there is only two…in reality that is how it has always been…but that is a different discussion.

At the point where we go from “1 man as gentile” and “1 man as Jew” to “One New Man”…something very important takes place in the Spirit. Frankly I am amazed at how many “Christians” do not discern this…but then I actually do understand why…and that is a different discussion.

This “One New Man” now a “spiritual man” aka the “Body of Christ” becomes its “own reality, with its own King and Kingdom and its own economy right here on earth”…and that was never before in existence on earth. It is through the work of the Holy Spirit in the man who is in Christ...which produces and assembles the Body of Christ.

Now from a spiritual perspective one must acknowledge that for those “in Christ” there is no Jew and no gentile, free nor slave, male nor female...because now they are all one “new spirit man” in the Holy Spirit. This is the fulfillment of the prophecy of the “seed of the woman” from Genesis 3:15 of which Israel and Christ are former “types.”

From the same spiritual perspective all other tribes, tongues, people and nations are now considered heathen…regardless of ethnicity…the delineating factor is the “in Christ” classification as the “nations” whoever they may be…are not in the “Spirit” but rather in the “Flesh”…this now is what produces the distinction AdHoc. This then fulfills the prophecy of the “seed of the serpent” from Genesis 3:15…of which Cain and the Pharisee are former “types.”

Two “Peoples” AdHoc…Spirit and Flesh…sheep and the goats…wheat and tares…5 wise and 5 foolish…sons of God and the sons of Satan…eternal life and eternal death…the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent.

The “Israel of God” are the Spirit filled sons of God…period. No longer nor ever again to be personified by ethnicity…we must remember AdHoc…if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise. Covenant promise fulfilled…in Christ…just as He is the literal fulfillment of all the Law and Prophets…which is how He can say that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets.

Everything that God intended the Law and Prophets to be for Israel…was to reveal His intention for the One New Man who would come forth in the end of the age…Yahshua is the “completed and fulfilled” picture to emerge from everything God revealed to Israel through the Law and Prophets.

He is the pattern Son for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings. Which is exactly what He is doing today…and He will complete it…through the sons of God the righteous standard of holiness is being brought back to the earth today to close out the age unto the glory of His Father.

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

"Why there are no two Witnesses of Moses with Elijah and 144k Hebrew in modern Israel"

In terms of "Moses and Elijah" they have gloriously fulfilled their entire purpose in God...they were relieved of duty...so to speak...and their last appearance was at the Mount of Transfiguration when Yahshua revealed Himself as He is...to the two of them and Peter, James and John....They all saw the absolute and complete fulfillment of all the "Law and Prophets" for which Moses and Elijah were the primary spokes persons in Israel respectively.

As for the 144K...this is not a simple revelation...I'll say this...it is not a stretch to think that there are a remnant of the two witnesses in Israel today.

Tatwo...:)

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, tatwo said:

So then here is where we diverge on the matter AdHoc. You see three peoples on the earth…however spiritually speaking there is only two…in reality that is how it has always been…but that is a different discussion.

You have a view that is widely held. It is based on contemporary teaching that mankind is divided into those who are saved and who are not saved. This is correct, but it does not take into account the Covenants made by God. Let's examine Israel past and future.

God made a Covenant with Abraham and his seed via Isaac. 430 years later, at Sinai, Abraham's seed (Israel) made another Covenant with God. Galatians 3:15-17 says that the second did not replace he first and that a covenant, even men's covenants, cannot be annulled. They are legal agreements with benefits and penalties for keeping of not keeping the arrangement.

This fact of the existence of Covenants already divides men into Two peoples; (i) People who have a Covenant with God and (ii) People who don't. This was so long before the Church came into existence.

When resurrection day came, Christ breathed the Holy Spirit into His disciples and a THIRD entity was born. They did not belong to Israel (old things had passed away) and they did not belong to the Nations. Now, notice the slight, but crucial difference in grammar between you and I. It is so slight that we could put it down to semantics, but in the end it means a huge difference.

I say that Ephesians 2:15 says that God took (some) OF the Gentiles and (some) OF Israel - that is NOT ALL of each.

You say virtually the same thing but you mean that God made "OUT OF the sum total of the "TWAIN". This of course would leave TWO peoples because you have made the "TWAIN" (KJV) one people based on their faith. But the Covenants do not address faith. The first, that with Abraham and his seed, requires CIRCUMCISION, while the second, that made with Moses, requires obedience to LAW. Faith in a Messiah was NEVER a condition of any Covenant.

So, you are correct concerning FAITH - there are TWO peoples - one with faith in Christ and one without. I am correct concerning God's economy. There is ONE people who God has dealings with only by conscience. There is a SECOND people who have Covenants that cannot be annulled. And I have a THIRD People who have FAITH.

[AdHoc]

22 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

God said he would make a new covenant with Israel .It appears that you are saying God breaks his word and does not make a new covenant with Israel.

In which words or sequence of words did I address the New Covenant?

[Shilohsfoal]

42 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

In which words or sequence of words did I address the New Covenant?

Oh,I'm mistaken

 

You have not acknowledged Christ ,have you.Christ is the testator of the new covenant which God makes with Israel.Tue new covenant where God places his law in Israels inward parts.

Edited March 31 by Shilohsfoal

[tatwo]

4 hours ago, AdHoc said:

God made a Covenant with Abraham and his seed via Isaac. 430 years later, at Sinai, Abraham's seed (Israel) made another Covenant with God.

Are you referring to Genesis 12:2 and Genesis 22:18 and the Law? If not perhaps you could clarify.

4 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Galatians 3:15-17 says that the second did not replace he first and that a covenant, even men's covenants, cannot be annulled. They are legal agreements with benefits and penalties for keeping of not keeping the arrangement.

If I follow you…I am seeing the “two” covenants with Abraham 1. Israel and 2. Christ and this prior to the “Law given to Moses?”

Paul is telling us that God gave Abraham a 2 part…if you will…covenant that was in place long before the Law was in place and would continue after Christ Yahshua fulfilled all the “Law and Prophets. Is that what you see?

4 hours ago, AdHoc said:

This fact of the existence of Covenants already divides men into Two peoples; (i) People who have a Covenant with God and (ii) People who don't. This was so long before the Church came into existence.

Exactly...this is what I am saying.

Tatwo...:)