Don't be deceived

[RdJ]

5 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

These saints die before the great tribulation.

These are the saints that die before the abomination of desolation is placed.The great multitude haven't died.They are saved during the great tribulation .

 

Big difference 

They haven't died? You either take the mark of the beast or you get killed.

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
Revelation 6:9‭-‬11 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/rev.6.9-11.NKJV

And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Revelation 13:5‭, ‬7‭-‬8‭, ‬16‭-‬17 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/rev.13.5-17.NKJV

 

 

[FreeGrace]

55 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

  FreeGrace said: 

That would mean Satan is able to thwart God's plans.

That sounds like a teaching of demons.

Yes, anti-semetism is the teaching of demons.  They want everyone to hate Jews and destroy them.

55 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

You should know better than believe Satan can thwart God's plans.

That would mean you don't understand what I posted.  You completely missed my point.  Satan's goal is to eliminate the Jews, all of them, so that God CAN'T fulfill His promises to them.  

Did I say that Satan will?  Of course NOT.  Please pay attention.

[Shilohsfoal]

Just now, Renskedejonge said:

They haven't died? You either take the mark of the beast or you get killed.

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
Revelation 6:9‭-‬11 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/rev.6.9-11.NKJV

And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Revelation 13:5‭, ‬7‭-‬8‭, ‬16‭-‬17 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/rev.13.5-17.NKJV

 

 

False.

No one outside Israel has to get the mark of the beast.Its the saints in Israel who are killed as I have explained to you and posted many quotes of from scripture.

The beast is the Israeli government.If someone does not wish to remain in Israel ,they can go into the wilderness out of  reach of the beast.

 

The great multitude from.the nations have not died.They are saved during the great tribulation.The people of the nations who receive rain from God shall be saved during that time.Them who don't are consumed

 

Zech 14

¹² And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

¹³ And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

¹⁴ And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

 

¹⁵ And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

¹⁶ And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

¹⁷ And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

¹⁸ And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

[Shilohsfoal]

2 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Yes, anti-semetism is the teaching of demons.  They want everyone to hate Jews and destroy them.

That would mean you don't understand what I posted.  You completely missed my point.  Satan's goal is to eliminate the Jews, all of them, so that God CAN'T fulfill His promises to them.  

Did I say that Satan will?  Of course NOT.  Please pay attention.

You said,

 

  FreeGrace said: 

That would mean Satan is able to thwart God's plans

[FreeGrace]

19 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

  Renskedejonge said: 

Here, those come from the tribulation:

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Revelation 20:4 NKJV

These saints die before the great tribulation.

Good grief man!  You are trying to "correct" the Bible??  The Bible says they 'had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark" of the beast.

How do you figure that means they all died BEFORE the great tribulation?

The verse is very clear that they died IN the tribulation,

Such erroneous reading of Scripture removes credibility from your posts.

19 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

These are the saints that die before the abomination of desolation is placed.The great multitude haven't died.They are saved during the great tribulation .

Big difference 

No credibility.

[FreeGrace]

2 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

You said,

  FreeGrace said: 

That would mean Satan is able to thwart God's plans

And you miss the whole point that I was speaking of Satan's plans, NOT what will occur.

But IF IF IF all Jews were wiped out, then God wouldn't be able to fulfill His promises.

Or do you not understand what I post?

[Shilohsfoal]

7 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Good grief man!  You are trying to "correct" the Bible??  The Bible says they 'had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark" of the beast.

How do you figure that means they all died BEFORE the great tribulation?

The verse is very clear that they died IN the tribulation,

Such erroneous reading of Scripture removes credibility from your posts.

No credibility.

Good grief.Stop twisting scripture .

 

Scripture does not say the great multitude dies or reigns with Christ It's like you don't even know God's plans for Israel and are attempting to say those plans are given to the nations.

 

Israel reigns with Christ over the nations.Not the other way around.

 

Edited February 24 by Shilohsfoal

[RdJ]

13 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

False.

No one outside Israel has to get the mark of the beast.Its the saints in Israel who are killed as I have explained to you and posted many quotes of from scripture.

The beast is the Israeli government.If someone does not wish to remain in Israel ,they can go into the wilderness out of  reach of the beast.

 

The great multitude from.the nations have not died.They are saved during the great tribulation.The people of the nations who receive rain from God shall be saved during that time.Them who don't are consumed

 

Zech 14

¹² And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

¹³ And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

¹⁴ And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

 

¹⁵ And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

¹⁶ And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

¹⁷ And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

¹⁸ And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

That's from the people who fought Jerusalem, the ones who didn't die.  Christians don't fight Jerusalem. 

 

The beast reigns over the whole world.

It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every [d]tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, Renskedejonge said:

No if they had all accepted Him the cross would not have caused desolation, so then the rejecting would be the abomination. I once thought it was the rock of the dome. What an ugly thing.

And it's after they are sent out of the country for 2000 years and there were wars and everything.

Matthew 24 the abomination is in the end just before He comes back.

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
Matthew 24:14‭-‬15‭, ‬17‭-‬22 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/mat.24.14-22.NKJV

I hope I did not make a mistake when I responded earlier… 

The stone (Messiah) would strike the feet (not the toes) of the image. This did not destroy the image as everyone contends because it took place (2:34) at His first coming. This would “break apart” the iron and the clay WITHIN THE FEET ONLY. 
 

The clay represented His people being held / oppressed by pagan Rome (iron kingdom)… held captive, if you will, and symbolized at the end of its feet.

As a result of the cross, Jesus would now separate the pottery clay (those Jews He could mold - those that WOULD accept Him as their Messiah, FROM the Jews (ceramic clay) - those Jews who were “hardened” and could / would not be “molded” by God, and would NOT accept Jesus as their Messiah. 
 

So, by the cross, the Messiah will begin His earthly church, but it will NOT destroy either the 4th kingdom of pagan Rome nor those Jews who rejected Him. He did not come to destroy but to “divide.”

The “abomination” or the choice of His people to reject Him as their Messiah AND putting Him to the cross is the act / decision that defines the “abomination that CAUSES their desolation” FROM HIM / THEIR GOD for over 2000 years. God would turn away from His people and they would be made “desolate” from Him. 
 

Matthew

I also recognize you brought in certain verses from Matthew. And please understand that I am well aware that ALL commentators contend these are END TIME prophecies. But I disagree. It is difficult many times to distinguish between those verses that speak to the time of Christ versus those that are true end time prophecies. 
 

The two I believe you refer to:

1) when you see the “abomination STANDING in the holy place 24:15 (then, let them read and understand— informing His people to read Daniel and understand it WAS their Messiah who they crucified)….  Jesus represents the “Abomination / the cross” / their expected coming Messiah” who would indeed visit the Temple- especially in His last week on earth. Matthew is writing his gospel from a Jewish point of view… their king, their priest, their Passover lamb would be found in the holy place.

2) However, if we look to the same comment recorded by in Mark 13:14, (Mark writes his gospel from the point of view as, not a king, or a priest. Now, he refers to this “abomination” that is standing … where he ought NOT be.” Strange comment!!!! But this is to reveal this “abomination,” this most horrific act is the same as that mentioned in Matthew BUT, it reveals their Messiah as a “suffering servant.” And the reason this comes across as a “strange” comment is because it refers to the Messiah and, as a servant, He does NOT belong in the holy place. This is God’s way of ensuring we identify His Messiah AS HIS THE ABOMINATION THAT WILL CAUSE COMPLETE DESOLATION FROM HIS PEOPLE FOR OVER 2000 YEARS. It is not an end time event. It is their punishment (time if the Gentiles is now at had - same as their punishment period) for rejecting and crucifying their Messiah. 
 

3) But, God will NEVER abandon His people. When the time of the Gentiles is over, God will remove the blindness from their eyes no different than He did with Saul on the road to Damascus. It will also be a “divine” act and for the final 3.5 years, they will go out into the world preaching His Word AND the testimony of Jesus no different than what Saul did - as it was meant to be preached- it will sound so different than what had been taught and heard by billions of Christians from the “little horn” of Daniel 7 and 8. This will indeed bring in tribulation- father against son, mother against daughter, etc. For those of you that have competitive relationships with their siblings, it will be very easy for you to understand just how much more the effort or fight can be, compared to someone not of you siblings. Meaning, there will be such fighting, division, and turmoil within the family of God at that time. 
 

4) Finally, getting back to your final comment, “no flesh would have been saved…” This is also referring to the cross- NOT AN END TIME EVENT. If Jesus did not go to the cross, there would not be any means for man to be able to be saved. We have NO ability to remove or atone for our sins. Only His sacrifice can cleanse us from our sins. This too is a significant departure from today’s accepted interpretation!

Once I realized that Daniel was to be interpreted by seeing how it related / spoke to or about the coming Messiah AND HIS PLAN OF SALVATION, and NOT to try and interpret these prophecies in a “historical” manner (physical manner or how they match up to those actors and events that could be found in OUR history books) the interpretations became evident- God is giving us these prophetic verses that reveal His coming Messiah so His Word and His testimony could be preached to the entire Gentile world DURING THE COMING 2000 years (time of the Gentiles). 
 

Please let me know if this is made more clear than in my earlier post, OR, you may disagree with all or some of this interpretation.

Thanks, Charlie 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

4 minutes ago, Renskedejonge said:

That's from the people who fought Jerusalem, the ones who didn't die.  Christians don't fight Jerusalem. 

 

The beast reigns over the whole world.

It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every [d]tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

False 

The beast rules his little kingdom.Not the world.

Look the word earth up(ghay).It means a kingdom.

 

Revelation 16:10

The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony
 

 

If you look at the little kingdom.of the beast which calls itself Israel.You will find those people who followed the beast from all nations ,tongues and peoples.

 

They have followed after the beast from all over the world.