Covenant- Covenants- Let's discuss

[Neighbor]

Covenant-Covenants- How many, for how long; Conditional-Unconditional-Unilteral-Bilateral

Let's have a discussion on the word covenant including definition, aspects, numbers of covenants revealed/declared in the Bible .

How about starting with a definition of what a covenant is? For if we have different understanding of what a covenant is in the first place we will simply end up cross talking for never having connected with even a basic topic or subject to analyze. 

[Mr. M]

3 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Covenant-Covenants- How many, for how long; Conditional-Unconditional-Unilteral-Bilateral

Let's have a discussion on the word covenant including definition, aspects, numbers of covenants revealed/declared in the Bible .

How about starting with a definition of what a covenant is? For if we have different understanding of what a covenant is in the first place we will simply end up cross talking for never having connected with even a basic topic or subject to analyze. 

A covenant is an agreement between two parties of vastly different might.

The mighty party provides benevolence whereas the weaker commits their fealty.

This in in contrast to a treaty, where two parties of similar powers form agreements of mutual benefit.

The most important covenant relevant to a Christian was established between The Lord and King David.

Isaiah 55:

1 Ho, every one that thirsts, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

2 Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labor for that which satisfies not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.

3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.

5 Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou know not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the Lord thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.

6 Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

 

[Neighbor]

54 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

A covenant is an agreement between two parties of vastly different might.

The mighty party provides benevolence whereas the weaker commits their fealty.

This in in contrast to a treaty, where two parties of similar powers form agreements of mutual benefit.

 

Interesting though I find room for other pairings in both covenant and treaty.

Many parties, it seems to me, may form into a unit making a covenant to maintain a relationship, and do so regardless of their comparative power or size. They then, as a group bound to each other may form one side of an agreement that becomes a treaty signature to a treaty with either similar allies or with an opponent or opponents.  I don't see where any of the parties are limited by size or relative power.

But it is an interesting definition. So thanks for the beginning of this thread's responses. Where did you get that definition?

[Mr. M]

32 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Interesting though I find room for other pairings in both covenant and treaty.

Many parties, it seems to me, may form into a unit making a covenant to maintain a relationship, and do so regardless of their comparative power or size. They then, as a group bound to each other may form one side of an agreement that becomes a treaty signature to a treaty with either similar allies or with an opponent or opponents.  I don't see where any of the parties are limited by size or relative power.

But it is an interesting definition. So thanks for the beginning of this thread's responses. Where did you get that definition?

Speaking from the POV of God's Word, berit is translated covenant, with the vast majority God's interaction with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, etc...and as El Shaddai, I describe the relationship the way I did.

The word is used to describe Abraham forming an agreement with Abimelech, and Solomon with other kings, and the use of treaty was my own decision based on the history of nations, including in the Bible. It is noteworthy that these treaties are considered by God as infidelity to Him. King Josiah died attempting to fulfill a treaty obligation with Egypt.

This inevitably leads to the covenant of marriage. The woman is described as "the weaker vessel". Obviously, a man can marry into money and power, such as D. Trump's son in law. Therefore this description must be based on spirit and truth.

1 Corinthians 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

[AdHoc]

On 2/24/2024 at 1:49 PM, Neighbor said:

Covenant-Covenants- How many, for how long; Conditional-Unconditional-Unilteral-Bilateral

Let's have a discussion on the word covenant including definition, aspects, numbers of covenants revealed/declared in the Bible .

How about starting with a definition of what a covenant is? For if we have different understanding of what a covenant is in the first place we will simply end up cross talking for never having connected with even a basic topic or subject to analyze. 

Oxford gives the meaning of a "Covenant" as "an agreement" or a "contract". Biblically, it is an agreement between two parties in which both promise to achieve something, but will pay penalties for noncompliance.

There is one covenant made with "all flesh" - the Covenant of the Rainbow. Noah was humankind's and the beast's representative (Gen.9:17). God's part is to never again cover the earth in water. Man's part was not to murder and not to drink blood. The penalties for man and beast for killing illegally was death at the hand of men. It is valid as long as summer and winter occur. It was ratified by Noah's offering of a clean animal.

God made a Covenant of PROMISE with Abraham. God mad about 15 promises to Abraham and his offspring and man's only part is to be circumcised. If a man who is seed of Abraham is not circumcised he is cut off from the seed of Abraham. Since one promise at least was for an "everlasting possession" making it an "everlasting Covenant". It was ratified by a threefold offering made by Abraham.

God made a Covenant with the Nation which would be His dwelling place. The Covenant was mad in the wilderness of Sinai and comprised of about 615 laws, statutes and ordinances that the seed of Abraham had to be obedient to. God's part was to bless Israel, protect them from their enemies, give them health and long life, give them many children and bless their harvests. The penalties for non compliance by Israel starts with sickness and end with dispersion among the Nations. (See Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28). It is valid until two conditions are fulfilled. Heaven and earth pass away, and until Israel have fulfilled the Law. It was ratified by blood which Moses sprinkled with hyssop.

The above Covenant of Law proved difficult and problematic because it addressed the flesh. God has promised a New Covenant OF THE SAME LAWS under different conditions (Jer.31:31-33). 1. Israel will be forgiven their past sinning. 2. The 615 Laws will be written internally on the Israelite soul and not externally on tablets of stone. 2. Israel will be resurrected except for a few. The old Adamic nature will thus be gone (Dan.12:2). The Israelite will receive a new spirit (which is different to a rebirth in the spirit - Jn.3:6), and they will receive a new heart. The end of the first Covenant is when Israel become one Nation again and the New Covenant begins when Israel are gathered from the grave and gathered together in their Land. It was ratified by Jesus' blood on Golgotha.

1. The Church is under the Covenant of Noah and the Covenant of Promise (Gal.3:29)

2. Israel is under all three

3. The Nations are under that of Noah

The Covenant of Promise is divided into the "Land (of Canaan)" and "the whole world" (Rom.4:13). This Covenant promises "seed as the sand of the sea-shore" and "seed as numerous as the stars of heaven". Israelites are raised with TERRESTRIAL glory. The Church has CELESTIAL glory. The Israelite has circumcision ordained. The Church has Baptism ordained (Matt.20:22-23, Col.2:10-12)

Because the Covenant of Law commanded that the Jew refrain from relations with the Gentile, and thus destroyed the UNITY that was requird by the Church, Christ abolished the Law FOR THE NEW MAN (Eph.2:15). It remains fully valid for the Israelite.

[Neighbor]

I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.  God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”?  But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.  And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. Just as it is written:

“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”

And David says:

“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”

Israel’s Rejection Not Final

I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”  Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.  For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.  For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,  even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.  For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!

 “For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”
 “Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”

 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.

-Paul (Paul's inspired of God concluding segment from his letter to the church at Rome, that potion that explains God's plan of redemption for Israel).