Our Efforts will not Build the Church!

[Vine Abider]

17 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 Galatians says, in effect, we need Christ as the Spirit for rebirth, but He is not needed in the process of sanctification BECAUSE we can do it better by applying the Law! The Father is generous with those overcome by the flesh - like David. God shows another face when we touch Him and His Son's work - like Uzah.

I think what you are conveying is that some in Galatia were saying "We can do it better by applying the law," right?

[Vine Abider]

On 4/20/2024 at 4:04 AM, Neighbor said:

Our Efforts will not Build the Church!

Hi, 1st Corinthians 13 and 14 seem to have a theme that instructs otherwise.

 

17 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I'm glad you addressed this. Basically, you and @Vine Abider have addressed tw0 different appreciations of what constitutes "our efforts". Both are correct.

1. In Matthew 16 the Lord said that HE would build His Church.

2. In Matthew 7 our Lord said that EVERYONE is building - some on sand and some on rock

3. In 1st Corinthians 3 Paul was a Master BUILDER and we should follow for EVERY MAN'S WORK will be tested

4. In 1st Corinthians 12:6 in regard to the inspired, "God is all in all"

5. In Ephesians 4 it is Christ Who supplies the individual and the individual supplies the Body Corporate

The discussion can be endless, but we can cut it short by pointing out that;
1. Every man will be called to reckoning how he built
2. Every man who builds illegally (without orders) will suffer loss (Matthew 7)
3. Every man who builds wit the flesh (wood hay and stubble) will suffer chastisement
4. Every man who builds without inspiration will see his building fall to the anger of God
5. Every man's efforts must be coupled with an intimate and obedient walk with the Head - Christ

Yes, there are two aspects of building the church, but they are both Christ.   He is the one who said, "I will build My church."  But He is also head of His body - us.  So now He is building His church IN and THROUGH us!

But our labors can produce building materials that are worthy - gold, silver, previous stones; or unworthy - wood, hay stubble.  If we are not allowing Christ to build through us, and we are building from our natural efforts and inclinations, then that work will be burned up in the judging fire of 1st Corinthians 3..

[AdHoc]

4 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

I think what you are conveying is that some in Galatia were saying "We can do it better by applying the law," right?

Worse than that. They were replacing the Holy Spirit with the Law. 2nd Corinthians Chapter 3 deals with that. Is a man sanctified by his efforts in the Law, or is sanctification by the power of the Holy Spirit. The modern Church has all but excluded the Holy Spirit from everything. The Nicolaitan system is just the beginning of this.

[AdHoc]

5 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

 

Yes, there are two aspects of building the church, but they are both Christ.   He is the one who said, "I will build My church."  But He is also head of His body - us.  So now He is building His church IN and THROUGH us!

But our labors can produce building materials that are worthy - gold, silver, previous stones; or unworthy - wood, hay stubble.  If we are not allowing Christ to build through us, and we are building from our natural efforts and inclinations, then that work will be burned up in the judging fire of 1st Corinthians 3..

I understand that the materials were already there. In Eden was Gold, Bdellium, precious stones (onyx) and the Trees headed by the Tree of Life - that is, wood. In 1st Corinthians 3 we have gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, and stubble. The Bdellium is replaced by "Silver" - the atoning work of Christ since he was sold to death for 30 pieces of silver. In New Jerusalem we gold, Pearl and precious stones. The atoning work of Christ is not forgotten but because all men are in resurrection, the silver is replaced by Pearl. Bdellium is a Pearl from a Tree. But after sin, the animal life for the shedding of blood is needed. Thus, the Pearl is from the animal life, in the sea (the nations), but which is layers of life-secretion over an injury. Wood is humanity. Our Lord was a Carpenter. His humanity is depicted by Acacia wood. Ours is hay and stubble.

The precious stones depict the sanctification of a man by the Holy Spirit. A tree is felled and falls to the ground. Soon he is covered by earth. Secret waters flow over him washing out the old elements and washing new ones in. Pressure is added and after a long while, coal is produced. But coal is only good for burning. So the huge amounts of heat and pressure of a volcano are applied. The result - Precious Stones of great value. That ends as the walls of New Jerusalem - transformed Christians. This process is called PETRIFICATION from Peter. It is done in silence and secret away from the Church in your everyday life. It takes along time. Maybe, even after you are diamond, you need to be cut and chiseled for your rare beauty to emerge. Your place is in God's House, but you are also carried by the High Priest on His breast near His heart of love. Six onyx stones complete the picture. On each shoulder (indicating strength) of the High Priest - you are carried - and all this when He goes into the Holy of Holies.

You are loved and born up on the shoulders of our Great High Priest. Gold is the nature of God. Your work in the church must be with Gold, silver and precious stones. They will be tested by fire. If you build with humanity, do it only with Christ's humanity.

How can the "letters that killeth" replace the true materials - all embodied in Christ - as you alluded to.
(Credit for illustration to Beroa Verlag, Zürich)

 

 

Edited April 21 by AdHoc
Picture

[D. Adrien]

10 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I understand that the materials were already there. In Eden was Gold, Bdellium, precious stones (onyx) and the Trees headed by the Tree of Life - that is, wood. In 1st Corinthians 3 we have gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, and stubble. The Bdellium is replaced by "Silver" - the atoning work of Christ since he was sold to death for 30 pieces of silver. In New Jerusalem we gold, Pearl and precious stones. The atoning work of Christ is not forgotten but because all men are in resurrection, the silver is replaced by Pearl. Bdellium is a Pearl from a Tree. But after sin, the animal life for the shedding of blood is needed. Thus, the Pearl is from the animal life, in the sea (the nations), but which is layers of life-secretion over an injury. Wood is humanity. Our Lord was a Carpenter. His humanity is depicted by Acacia wood. Ours is hay and stubble.

The precious stones depict the sanctification of a man by the Holy Spirit. A tree is felled and falls to the ground. Soon he is covered by earth. Secret waters flow over him washing out the old elements and washing new ones in. Pressure is added and after a long while, coal is produced. But coal is only good for burning. So the huge amounts of heat and pressure of a volcano are applied. The result - Precious Stones of great value. That ends as the walls of New Jerusalem - transformed Christians. This process is called PETRIFICATION from Peter. It is done in silence and secret away from the Church in your everyday life. It takes along time. Maybe, even after you are diamond, you need to be cut and chiseled for your rare beauty to emerge. Your place is in God's House, but you are also carried by the High Priest on His breast near His heart of love. Six onyx stones complete the picture. On each shoulder (indicating strength) of the High Priest - you are carried - and all this when He goes into the Holy of Holies.

You are loved and born up on the shoulders of our Great High Priest. Gold is the nature of God. Your work in the church must be with Gold, silver and precious stones. They will be tested by fire. If you build with humanity, do it only with Christ's humanity.

How can the "letters that killeth" replace the true materials - all embodied in Christ - as you alluded to.
(Credit for illustration to Beroa Verlag, Zürich)

 

 

The twelve stones of the breastplate perhaps correspond with what is written in Rev. 21: 12-14 concerning New Jerusalem?

It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed— 13 on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

[Michael37]

3 hours ago, D. Adrien said:

The twelve stones of the breastplate perhaps correspond with what is written in Rev. 21: 12-14 concerning New Jerusalem?

Here's what I had Copiloted for you.

A comparative list of the gemstones mentioned in the Book of Exodus and the Book of Revelation in the Bible, arranged in numerical order:

Number	Exodus Gemstones	Revelation Gemstones
1	Sardius	Jasper
2	Topaz	Sapphire
3	Carbuncle	Chalcedony
4	Emerald	Emerald
5	Sapphire	Sardonyx
6	Diamond	Sardius
7	Ligure	Chrysolite
8	Agate	Beryl
9	Amethyst	Topaz
10	Beryl	Chrysoprasus
11	Onyx	Jacinth
12	Jasper	Amethyst

Please note that the identification of some of these stones can vary due to differences in translation and interpretation over time¹²³⁴. The gemstones listed in Exodus are part of the breastplate of judgment for the high priest, while the gemstones in Revelation are the foundation stones of the New Jerusalem. Despite the differences in context and purpose, there is a remarkable overlap in the types of gemstones mentioned, reflecting their enduring significance throughout the biblical narrative.

[D. Adrien]

4 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Here's what I had Copiloted for you.

A comparative list of the gemstones mentioned in the Book of Exodus and the Book of Revelation in the Bible, arranged in numerical order:

Number	Exodus Gemstones	Revelation Gemstones
1	Sardius	Jasper
2	Topaz	Sapphire
3	Carbuncle	Chalcedony
4	Emerald	Emerald
5	Sapphire	Sardonyx
6	Diamond	Sardius
7	Ligure	Chrysolite
8	Agate	Beryl
9	Amethyst	Topaz
10	Beryl	Chrysoprasus
11	Onyx	Jacinth
12	Jasper	Amethyst

Please note that the identification of some of these stones can vary due to differences in translation and interpretation over time¹²³⁴. The gemstones listed in Exodus are part of the breastplate of judgment for the high priest, while the gemstones in Revelation are the foundation stones of the New Jerusalem. Despite the differences in context and purpose, there is a remarkable overlap in the types of gemstones mentioned, reflecting their enduring significance throughout the biblical narrative.

Well, that's cool! Thanks Michael! How long before a latex exterior'd synthetic is preaching from a pulpit? It'll know more than many Christians superficially, or deeply? Really weird for me to contemplate.

Edit: Google or search the latest robot from Boston dynamics.

Edited April 22 by D. Adrien
spelin

[Vine Abider]

 

19 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I understand that the materials were already there. In Eden was Gold, Bdellium, precious stones (onyx) and the Trees headed by the Tree of Life - that is, wood. In 1st Corinthians 3 we have gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, and stubble. The Bdellium is replaced by "Silver" - the atoning work of Christ since he was sold to death for 30 pieces of silver. In New Jerusalem we gold, Pearl and precious stones. The atoning work of Christ is not forgotten but because all men are in resurrection, the silver is replaced by Pearl. Bdellium is a Pearl from a Tree. But after sin, the animal life for the shedding of blood is needed. Thus, the Pearl is from the animal life, in the sea (the nations), but which is layers of life-secretion over an injury. Wood is humanity. Our Lord was a Carpenter. His humanity is depicted by Acacia wood. Ours is hay and stubble.

The precious stones depict the sanctification of a man by the Holy Spirit. A tree is felled and falls to the ground. Soon he is covered by earth. Secret waters flow over him washing out the old elements and washing new ones in. Pressure is added and after a long while, coal is produced. But coal is only good for burning. So the huge amounts of heat and pressure of a volcano are applied. The result - Precious Stones of great value. That ends as the walls of New Jerusalem - transformed Christians. This process is called PETRIFICATION from Peter. It is done in silence and secret away from the Church in your everyday life. It takes along time. Maybe, even after you are diamond, you need to be cut and chiseled for your rare beauty to emerge. Your place is in God's House, but you are also carried by the High Priest on His breast near His heart of love. Six onyx stones complete the picture. On each shoulder (indicating strength) of the High Priest - you are carried - and all this when He goes into the Holy of Holies.

You are loved and born up on the shoulders of our Great High Priest. Gold is the nature of God. Your work in the church must be with Gold, silver and precious stones. They will be tested by fire. If you build with humanity, do it only with Christ's humanity.

How can the "letters that killeth" replace the true materials - all embodied in Christ - as you alluded to.
(Credit for illustration to Beroa Verlag, Zürich)

 

 

Thanks for bringing that out!  All the elements are right there in the beginning and run throughout the bible right into the new Jerusalem.  When we see things like this, it gives a little glimpse how amazing God is!

[AdHoc]

9 hours ago, D. Adrien said:

The twelve stones of the breastplate perhaps correspond with what is written in Rev. 21: 12-14 concerning New Jerusalem?

It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed— 13 on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Exactly! When God put Adam in the Garden of Fellowship ti had no walls or a fence. Adam was given the duty to make it a holy Garden where a holy God could meet with a man in His image and likeness. He was commanded to "dress and keep it". The Serpent needed to be cast out and every thing that came in needed to be tested. The Tabernacle of the Wilderness was the Tent of "Congregation" - a place that would honor God's holiness and only allow in that which was holy. New Jerusalem is the consummate Tabernacle. It has walls and gates - one to stop entry of profane things and the other to let in that which God approves.

[steve morrow]

NOT  BUILD  YOU  UP 

 

PSALM 33:4  for the word of  THE  LORD  is right ---and all  HIS  works are done in truth---

PSALM 92:5  O LORD  how great are thy works and thy thoughts are very deep

--92:6-- a brutish man knoweth not neither doth a fool understand this

 PSALM 145:17  THE  LORD  is righteous in all  HIS  ways and holy in all  HIS  works 

 

PSALM 28:5  BECAUSE  THEY  REGARD  NOT  THE  WORKS  OF  THE  LORD  NOR  THE  OPERATION  OF  HIS  HANDS  HE  SHALL  DESTROY  THEM  AND  NOT  BUILD  THEM  UP 

 

PSALM 106:35  but were mingled among the heathen and learned their works 

PSALM 106:39  thus were they defiled ---with their own works--- and went a whoring with their own inventions 

 

EPHESIANS 2:8  for by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of  GOD 

--2:9--  not of works lest any man should boast

 

*******PSALM 94:4  HOW  LONG  SHALL  THEY  UTTER  AND  SPEAK  THINGS  AND  ALL  THE  WORKERS  OF  INIQUITY  BOAST  THEMSELVES*******

 

ACTS 20:32  and now brethren I commend you to  GOD  ---and to the word of  HIS  grace --- which is able to  --BUILD  YOU  UP--  and to give you an inheritance among all them that are sanctified  

TITUS 2:11  for the grace of  GOD  that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men

--2:12--  --teaching us--  that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly -- righteously -- and godly --  in this present world 

 

2 CORINTHIANS 10:5  casting down ---IMAGINATIONS  AND  EVERY  HIGH  THING--- that exalteth itself against the knowledge of  GOD  and bringing into captivity --EVERY  THOUGHT  TO  THE  OBEDIENCE OF  CHRIST--

 

JOHN 3:35  THE  FATHER  LOVETH  THE  SON  and  --hath  given  all  things-- into his hand 

JOHN 5:32  for  THE  FATHER  LOVETH  THE  SON   and showeth  HIM  all things that himself doeth and he will show  ---HIM  GREATER  WORKS  THAN  THESE  THAT  YOU  MAY  MARVEL---

 

PSALM 28:5  BECAUSE  THEY  REGARD  NOT  THE  WORKS  OF  THE  LORD  NOR  THE  OPERATION  OF  HIS  HANDS  HE  SHALL  DESTROY  THEM  AND  NOT  BUILD  THEM  UP

 

ECCLESIASTES  8:11  BECAUSE  SENTENCE  AGAINST  AN  EVIL  WORK  IS  NOT  EXECUTED  SPEEDILY  ---THEREFORE  THE  HEART  OF  THE  SONS  OF  MEN  IS  FULLY  SET  IN  THEM  TO  DO  EVIL---

 

PROVERBS 10:8  the wise in heart will receive commandments ---BUT  A  PRATING  FOOL  SHALL  FALL---

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST