Jews, Jewish Christians, and the New Covenant Era

[Luther]

On 1/14/2025 at 7:10 AM, jeremiah1five said:

The Hebrew Scripture: The Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets. 

The Law written by Moses who was from the tribe of Levi.

The Psalms written by various Hebrew men to and for the Hebrew people.

The Prophets written by prophets God sent to and for the children of Israel before, during, and after captivity and exile by Assyrians and later from Babylonians. These prophetic books provide valuable insights into the challenges and hopes of the post-exilic community as they sought to re-establish themselves in their homeland. While only a remnant of Jews (10% of total Hebrews alive) did return to Israel the other approximately 90% of Jews remained in Gentile lands in-between and heavily influenced by Greek culture. There was approximately 15-20 generations of Jews who were the offspring by rape by Assyrians and Babylonians, slavery, and marriage in which mixed-heritage Hebrews lived and died during this time from Assyrian conquest and exile, Babylonian conquest and exile. I submit that these are the "Gentiles" mentioned in the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation and are also the "Gentiles" that some in Judaism wanted to circumcise as part of their Christianity after being born-again, which issue led to the Jerusalem Council in AD 50 (Acts 15.)

At this council a decision was given by the elders and apostles at Jerusalem that these persons were to obey four aspects to the Law of Moses: 

29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. Acts 15:29.

One thing I noticed in the gospels regarding Samaritans was that mixed-heritage Hebrews were called "Samaritan" and not "Jew" by the Jews in the same attitude that mixed-heritage Hebrews who lived in Gentile lands and heavily influenced by Greek culture were called "Gentile" and not "Jew" by the Jews at large in Scripture. I think it important to consider some of the things important to show was that the "Gentiles" (mixed-heritage Hebrews) were being taught they needed to be circumcised in order to complete their salvation as propounded by Jews and the Judaism which taught the early Jewish Christians in the first century. In my mind I think it is also important to show that these were mixed-heritage Hebrews, and that the Christian leadership held in council had instructed them in the Law of Moses as described in Acts 15:29ff.          I find it most agreeable that these mixed-heritage Hebrews were indeed still Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise (Gal. 3:28-29) and that they were not non-Hebrew Gentiles which is a teaching held today by many. It is inconceivable to me that the Jewish Christian leadership in Jerusalem would instruct non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Law of Moses for such handling of the issue of the Judaic desire for them to be circumcised would not likely occur that their decision to observe these four aspects of the Law of Moses would violate the Law and cause riots among the Jews who rightly held that the covenant promises made by God with Abraham and also of the Mosaic Covenant between God and the children of Israel were solely covenant promises between the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the Hebrew people. 

In Scripture I find no covenant by God with non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Hebrew Scripture. Another thing I see is that presumed "Gentiles" in the past and today hold that they are the seed of Abraham, and they refer themselves to the words by Saul in his letter to the Jewish Christians in the Galatian region, specifically, their erroneous understanding of using Galatians 3:28-29 as their basis for miraculously becoming Hebrew and now part of the Abraham Covenant bypassing any inclusion into the Mosaic Covenant. They "jump over" the Mosaic Covenant in order to make themselves included in the Abraham Covenant using Galatians 3:28-29. How can they do this knowing that Saul's letters as with other letters by the apostles and also the four gospels were written by Jewish Christians to and for Jews and other Jewish Christians as they try to understand the New Covenant era Israel found themselves in post-Pentecost. One thing among others is that the Church Jesus promised to build was populated by Jews who became born-again on the day of the Feast of Harvest (Pentecost) when the Holy Spirit of Promise promised to Israel by the prophet Joel was sent by God to Israel which initiated the New Covenant era and that Jesus Christ added to His Church of Jews daily such as should be saved (Acts 2:47), and such as should be saved moving out of Acts 2 records these things occurring among Jews. The New Covenant is only the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Jesus, Israel's Messiah, Lord, and King.

Your thoughts?

 

 

It would seem as if your commentary is rather divisive against Christianity.

God's plan of salvation was conceived before the world began. From the beginning to the end of the world He will redeem a great multitude of people from all backgrounds, from all nations through the sacrifice of His dear Son Jesus Christ.

We are all Christians. Moses was a follower of Christ, as was Seth, David, Malachi, Jeremiah and so on. Sure, they didn't personally know Jesus, and of course you won't find the word "Christian" in the O.T. however,

Acts 4:12 KJV

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 KJV
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

[2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

[3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 

[4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

The biggest obstacle I see is putting one group above the other, or giving one group more significance over another when we are all equally the same in Christ.

O.T. Israel completely failed to perfectly obey God.....who could? But instead of uplifting or making relevance of OT Israel ( which no longer serves God), we should be focused on Christ alone and His remnant of believers that He has called from the Old and New Covenant.

[jeremiah1five]

On 5/4/2025 at 10:28 AM, Luther said:

It would seem as if your commentary is rather divisive against Christianity.

Hi Luther. I prefer to say of my commentary as rather decisive in favor of Biblical Christianity. True, Biblical Christianity is moored to Hebrew roots. Once it is unmoored from its Hebrew roots it ceases to be Biblical Christianity, and since there is only Biblical Christianity in existence anything that is not tied to the Hebrew Scripture cannot be Christianity at all.

On 5/4/2025 at 10:28 AM, Luther said:

God's plan of salvation was conceived before the world began. From the beginning to the end of the world He will redeem a great multitude of people from all backgrounds, from all nations through the sacrifice of His dear Son Jesus Christ.

I prefer to see the Plan of Salvation as being contemplated in the Mind of God, in Himself, before He created heaven, earth, and man. 

On 5/4/2025 at 10:28 AM, Luther said:

We are all Christians. Moses was a follower of Christ, as was Seth, David, Malachi, Jeremiah and so on. Sure, they didn't personally know Jesus, and of course you won't find the word "Christian" in the O.T. however,

We are not all Christian. And those Hebrews including all the Hebrew people that looked forward to the advent of the "Prophet like unto Moses" and the "Seed of the woman" were all Christian. But the Hebrew word "Messias" is used. 

On 5/4/2025 at 10:28 AM, Luther said:

Acts 4:12 KJV

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 KJV
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

[2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

[3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 

[4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

The biggest obstacle I see is putting one group above the other, or giving one group more significance over another when we are all equally the same in Christ.

I hold to what Scripture says regarding the respect and favoritism God had towards the Hebrew people through the seed of Abraham and those who were obedient to God pre-Abraham. If God chooses to elevate one people among others I can only accept and agree. To do otherwise is to oppose Him.

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. Deut. 7:6.

25 And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.    Ex 2:25.

On 5/4/2025 at 10:28 AM, Luther said:

O.T. Israel completely failed to perfectly obey God.....who could? But instead of uplifting or making relevance of OT Israel ( which no longer serves God), we should be focused on Christ alone and His remnant of believers that He has called from the Old and New Covenant.

The context of "remnant" refers to the several thousands of Hebrew and mixed heritage Hebrews who returned with Hezekiah and the thousands that later returned with Ezra to their land. And yes, they and no man after ever obeyed God "perfectly" except one called Jesus of Nazareth, Son of God, Savior. 

God did deal with the Hebrew people meeting them where they lived and that was as imperfect, fallen men and women. But it is important that His people make every attempt at being obedient to God's Law and the lessons we receive of others in Scripture for our training and admonition but what really matters is not that we hold on to His "hand" but that He is holding onto ours. Those who are named in the book of life of the lamb slain will receive eternal life as is His purpose. Out of the millions of Hebrews and mixed heritage Hebrews that lived at the time when Christ walked the Holy Land who lived in Gentile lands were heavily influenced by Assyrian, Babylonian, Greek, and other Gentile culture they were still Abraham's seed and oblivious to what transpired in Jerusalem among thousands of Hebrews who were present at a certain crucifixion and cannot be "guilty" of rejecting their Lord and King. One of the graces mentioned by Jeremiah and part of the New Covenant he prophesied was "forgiveness." And the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob did forgive His covenant people past, present, and future and he sealed that  promise with the giving of the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL by Joel, in that on the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest (Pentecost) three thousand Jews were born again, including mixed heritage Hebrews of Gentile-Jew descent. And as Scripture declares (Acts 2:47) Christ added to His Church of Jews daily such as should be saved meaning daily thousands and thousands of Jews were born again by the Holy Spirit of Promise and added to His Church (OT "great congregation.")

Thus was the beginning and continuation of the deliverance and redemption of the Hebrew people. That is, until the destruction of the Jewish Temple and Israel as a nation. God has forgiven the Hebrew people and has provided evidence of that forgiveness by the giving of His Spirit ca. AD 32.

The Hebrew people have been restored to fellowship to their God and covenant is still on track (according to Scripture.)

[Luther]

2 hours ago, jeremiah1five said:

Hi Luther. I prefer to say of my commentary as rather decisive in favor of Biblical Christianity. True, Biblical Christianity is moored to Hebrew roots. Once it is unmoored from its Hebrew roots it ceases to be Biblical Christianity, and since there is only Biblical Christianity in existence anything that is not tied to the Hebrew Scripture cannot be Christianity at all.

I prefer to see the Plan of Salvation as being contemplated in the Mind of God, in Himself, before He created heaven, earth, and man. 

We are not all Christian. And those Hebrews including all the Hebrew people that looked forward to the advent of the "Prophet like unto Moses" and the "Seed of the woman" were all Christian. But the Hebrew word "Messias" is used. 

I hold to what Scripture says regarding the respect and favoritism God had towards the Hebrew people through the seed of Abraham and those who were obedient to God pre-Abraham. If God chooses to elevate one people among others I can only accept and agree. To do otherwise is to oppose Him.

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. Deut. 7:6.

25 And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.    Ex 2:25.

The context of "remnant" refers to the several thousands of Hebrew and mixed heritage Hebrews who returned with Hezekiah and the thousands that later returned with Ezra to their land. And yes, they and no man after ever obeyed God "perfectly" except one called Jesus of Nazareth, Son of God, Savior. 

God did deal with the Hebrew people meeting them where they lived and that was as imperfect, fallen men and women. But it is important that His people make every attempt at being obedient to God's Law and the lessons we receive of others in Scripture for our training and admonition but what really matters is not that we hold on to His "hand" but that He is holding onto ours. Those who are named in the book of life of the lamb slain will receive eternal life as is His purpose. Out of the millions of Hebrews and mixed heritage Hebrews that lived at the time when Christ walked the Holy Land who lived in Gentile lands were heavily influenced by Assyrian, Babylonian, Greek, and other Gentile culture they were still Abraham's seed and oblivious to what transpired in Jerusalem among thousands of Hebrews who were present at a certain crucifixion and cannot be "guilty" of rejecting their Lord and King. One of the graces mentioned by Jeremiah and part of the New Covenant he prophesied was "forgiveness." And the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob did forgive His covenant people past, present, and future and he sealed that  promise with the giving of the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL by Joel, in that on the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest (Pentecost) three thousand Jews were born again, including mixed heritage Hebrews of Gentile-Jew descent. And as Scripture declares (Acts 2:47) Christ added to His Church of Jews daily such as should be saved meaning daily thousands and thousands of Jews were born again by the Holy Spirit of Promise and added to His Church (OT "great congregation.")

Thus was the beginning and continuation of the deliverance and redemption of the Hebrew people. That is, until the destruction of the Jewish Temple and Israel as a nation. God has forgiven the Hebrew people and has provided evidence of that forgiveness by the giving of His Spirit ca. AD 32.

The Hebrew people have been restored to fellowship to their God and covenant is still on track (according to Scripture.)

You said: "  If God chooses to elevate one people among others I can only accept and agree. To do otherwise is to oppose Him."

The only people God has favor upon are all whom Christ died for. He has preeminence over everything. To suggest that there is another way to God ( like being Hebrew) without going through Christ is not only unBiblical, but blasphemous. And I can see that you really do like to separate people when the simplicity is in Jesus. No matter who you are, if your sins are paid for, that's all that matters.

I am a Christian not because I worship at the feet of the OT Hebrews, but rather the feet of my Savior.

[jeremiah1five]

13 hours ago, Luther said:

You said: "  If God chooses to elevate one people among others I can only accept and agree. To do otherwise is to oppose Him."

The only people God has favor upon are all whom Christ died for. He has preeminence over everything. To suggest that there is another way to God ( like being Hebrew) without going through Christ is not only unBiblical, but blasphemous. And I can see that you really do like to separate people when the simplicity is in Jesus. No matter who you are, if your sins are paid for, that's all that matters.

I am a Christian not because I worship at the feet of the OT Hebrews, but rather the feet of my Savior.

Fact: There are three Hebrew covenants.

1. The Abraham Covenant between God, Abram the Hebrew, and Abram's Hebrew seed.

2. The Mosaic Covenant between God and the children of Israel.

3. The New Covenant between God and the House of Israel (ten northern kingdom tribes), and the House of Judah (two southern kingdom tribes.)

Under the Law the high priest offered sacrifices for the children of Israel. There is no Scripture that says the high priest offered blood sacrifices for non-Hebrew Gentiles. If we are to claim Jesus Christ came and fulfilled the Law (Matt. 5:17), then it must also be accepted that as High Priest Jesus Christ died for the children of Israel, which is why Saul states unequivocally:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Galatians 4:4–5.

and

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Romans 11:26–27.

This was done on the cross and Jesus Christ died for Abram the Hebrew and his Hebrew seed; a people identified in Scripture as the children of Israel - including mixed heritage Hebrews, of which if you are born-again by the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL (Joel), then there must by virtue of the promises made to Abraham be a Hebrew parent in your ancestors.

The Samaritans were mixed heritage Hebrews and Gentiles, and their ancestors were of Hebrew-Gentile descendancy. Samaria was the capital of the ten northern kingdom tribes and Samaritans were what mixed heritage Hebrews-Gentiles were called. Jerusalem was the capital of the two southern kingdom tribes. Where are the mixed heritage Jews (Judah and Benjamin) and Babylonians offspring mentioned in Scripture - even in the New Testament? I can't find them. Or, maybe I have.

The other fact is that I cannot find any covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Hebrew Scripture. Our exegetical foundation of our theology is that if there is no precedence in the Old Testament (type-shadow), then there can be no New Testament reality. Saul was a rabbi and Pharisee and remained a rabbi and Pharisee and obedient to the Law of Moses after he met Jesus and became born again and KNEW the Scripture as such, which God used to reveal the particulars of the New Covenant era to the Jewish nation through him. His conclusion? The New Covenant is only the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Jesus Christ (Matt. 5:17.)

 

Edited Tuesday at 01:58 PM by jeremiah1five

[Luther]

5 hours ago, jeremiah1five said:

Fact: There are three Hebrew covenants.

1. The Abraham Covenant between God, Abram the Hebrew, and Abram's Hebrew seed.

2. The Mosaic Covenant between God and the children of Israel.

3. The New Covenant between God and the House of Israel (ten northern kingdom tribes), and the House of Judah (two southern kingdom tribes.)

Under the Law the high priest offered sacrifices for the children of Israel. There is no Scripture that says the high priest offered blood sacrifices for non-Hebrew Gentiles. If we are to claim Jesus Christ came and fulfilled the Law (Matt. 5:17), then it must also be accepted that as High Priest Jesus Christ died for the children of Israel, which is why Saul states unequivocally:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Galatians 4:4–5.

and

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Romans 11:26–27.

This was done on the cross and Jesus Christ died for Abram the Hebrew and his Hebrew seed; a people identified in Scripture as the children of Israel - including mixed heritage Hebrews, of which if you are born-again by the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL (Joel), then there must by virtue of the promises made to Abraham be a Hebrew parent in your ancestors.

The Samaritans were mixed heritage Hebrews and Gentiles, and their ancestors were of Hebrew-Gentile descendancy. Samaria was the capital of the ten northern kingdom tribes and Samaritans were what mixed heritage Hebrews-Gentiles were called. Jerusalem was the capital of the two southern kingdom tribes. Where are the mixed heritage Jews (Judah and Benjamin) and Babylonians offspring mentioned in Scripture - even in the New Testament? I can't find them. Or, maybe I have.

The other fact is that I cannot find any covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Hebrew Scripture. Our exegetical foundation of our theology is that if there is no precedence in the Old Testament (type-shadow), then there can be no New Testament reality. Saul was a rabbi and Pharisee and remained a rabbi and Pharisee and obedient to the Law of Moses after he met Jesus and became born again and KNEW the Scripture as such, which God used to reveal the particulars of the New Covenant era to the Jewish nation through him. His conclusion? The New Covenant is only the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Jesus Christ (Matt. 5:17.)

 

You said: "His conclusion? The New Covenant is only the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Jesus Christ (Matt. 5:17."

" His conclusion" is your opinion, just as your opinion that Paul remained a Pharisees after salvation. And I don't believe many Christians will share that opinion, just say'in.

Anyway the New Covenant is a " New" covenant, it's not a fulfillments of the Mosaic covenant by law but a "better" covenant through the faith of Christ.

And here is the covenant for the hope of all the nations of the earth:

Jeremiah 31:31-34 KJV
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 

[32] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 

[33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 

[34] And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

If you are in Christ, you are in the house of Israel. He is the hope of Israel.

[Anne2]

1 hour ago, Luther said:

You said: "His conclusion? The New Covenant is only the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Jesus Christ (Matt. 5:17."

" His conclusion" is your opinion, just as your opinion that Paul remained a Pharisees after salvation. And I don't believe many Christians will share that opinion, just say'in.

Anyway the New Covenant is a " New" covenant, it's not a fulfillments of the Mosaic covenant by law but a "better" covenant through the faith of Christ.

And here is the covenant for the hope of all the nations of the earth:

Jeremiah 31:31-34 KJV
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 

[32] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 

[33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 

[34] And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

If you are in Christ, you are in the house of Israel. He is the hope of Israel.

In saying new, he has made the first old.

The new covenant was made with Israel and Judah. 

It is not new for Abraham, Isaac and Jacob it always has been the covenant made with the faithful.

Ga 3:17  And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Nor to the blessed of all nations.
Ga 3:8  And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

[Luther]

4 hours ago, Anne2 said:

In saying new, he has made the first old.

The new covenant was made with Israel and Judah. 

It is not new for Abraham, Isaac and Jacob it always has been the covenant made with the faithful.

Ga 3:17  And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Nor to the blessed of all nations.
Ga 3:8  And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

You said: " The new covenant was made with Israel and Judah. "

Jeremiah 31:31,33 KJV
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

 The house of Israel and Judah has to include those who become saved in all the nations of the earth. I know this doesn't go over well with Israel only fans....

[33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Who are God's people?

So then we look at Hebrews chapter 8 and we see the same language:

Hebrews 8:6-7,10,13 KJV
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 

[7] For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 

[10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

[13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

So at this point many might still think that. Oh God is just talking about the people of Israel. So then we continue into chapter 9 ( we have to remember that there were no such thing as chapters when the Bible was written):

Hebrews 9:11,15,27-28 KJV
But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

[15] And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 

[27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 

[28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The key phrase is " they which are called". This includes everyone called by God to salvation.

[Anne2]

53 minutes ago, Luther said:

You said: " The new covenant was made with Israel and Judah. "

Jeremiah 31:31,33 KJV
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

 The house of Israel and Judah has to include those who become saved in all the nations of the earth. I know this doesn't go over well with Israel only fans....

[33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Who are God's people?

So then we look at Hebrews chapter 8 and we see the same language:

Hebrews 8:6-7,10,13 KJV
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 

[7] For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 

[10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

[13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

So at this point many might still think that. Oh God is just talking about the people of Israel. So then we continue into chapter 9 ( we have to remember that there were no such thing as chapters when the Bible was written):

Hebrews 9:11,15,27-28 KJV
But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

[15] And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 

[27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 

[28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The key phrase is " they which are called". This includes everyone called by God to salvation.

I also said It was not new to Abraham or the nations who are blessed in him.

In calling it NEW it made Sinai OLD. which the old was only made with Israel, including Juda.

 

Edited yesterday at 03:05 AM by Anne2

[jeremiah1five]

20 hours ago, Luther said:

You said: "His conclusion? The New Covenant is only the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Jesus Christ (Matt. 5:17."

" His conclusion" is your opinion, just as your opinion that Paul remained a Pharisees after salvation. And I don't believe many Christians will share that opinion, just say'in.

It's not opinion but Biblical fact. When a Hebrew/Jew became born-again their love for God and His Word (Hebrew Scripture Genesis to Malachi) increased. In time, as Saul was able to ask, seek, and knock upon the Scripture he studied he was able to learn and teach and write about the New Covenant events (Pentecost, etc) and find their type and shadow realized expressed during his lifetime. As a rabbi and Pharisee God used his association to the Scripture and the 14-17 years disappearing into Arabia and elsewhere to understand those shadows and bring out their reality. When a Jew became born-again the first thing they fall in love with is their God and then His Word. In my experience I know it did me. But now Jews in love with God and the doctrine of justification and sanctification drew closer to God to the point of ecstatic zeal. Luke writes about their experience in Acts and the fact that Saul, claiming to be "separated unto God" implying being a Nazarene with special vows and rituals clearly remained obedient to the Law of Moses:

17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: Acts 21:17–20.

The "elders" included some priests of the Sanhedrin:

7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith. Acts 6:7.

I count a "great company" to be a majority of the 70-72 that made up the Sanhedrin.

Saul was also among those elders who after meeting Israel's Messiah, Lord, and Savior to have experienced the same justification and sanctification believers experience today in Christ. True, Biblical churches that teach the "Old" Mosaic Covenant to Christians today use it for their training and admonition. Thanks to Saul, who unlocked the New Covenant to us since his letters express those same OT types and shadows - including references to the Law, Psalms, and Prophets - that guide our understanding. How many times did Saul reference the OT in his letters as well as the gospel writers like Matthew which contain the most numerous citations to the OT? Saul, as rabbi and Pharisee, was obedient to the Law and he would never seek or attempt to circumcise a non-Hebrew Gentile nor compel them to obedience to the Law (Acts 15 Jerusalem Council) for it he did there would have been riots and an uproar would have ensued, but there is no such references to these things - Luke would have certainly documented these things but he never did. Besides this, had Saul ever tried to circumcise non-Hebrews or compel them to obedience to the Law would not have enjoyed the glaring, honorable reputation he had among all Jewry. And yes, as Scripture records (Luke) Saul remained a rabbi and Pharisee and obedient to the Law of Moses after he met Jesus on the Damascus road:

24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:24.

(My comments are long maybe because I don't condense very well and also the importance to give background and Scripture to the things I say, which undoubtedly, are different insights to what is commonly known as erroneous modern-day Constantinian Gentile theology. I know. I've read a great number of throe commentaries and theology books and was taught Gentile theologies from apostles to "fathers" to medieval and Reformation and "Great Awakenings" even denominational expressions from Pentecostal going forward.)

20 hours ago, Luther said:

Anyway the New Covenant is a " New" covenant, it's not a fulfillments of the Mosaic covenant by law but a "better" covenant through the faith of Christ.

And here is the covenant for the hope of all the nations of the earth:

Jeremiah 31:31-34 KJV
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 

[32] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 

[33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 

[34] And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Take a closer look. You quote the prophecy by Jeremiah but look closer. What is Jeremiah talking about? He makes comparison to the Mosaic Covenant with at least 613 Laws among the three parts of that covenant: Moral, Social, and Ceremonial. What instruction does God require of the two Houses of Hebrews? What does God do? What does He promise in the New Covenant? How does God "forgive Israel's sin" except through Jesus' Work on the cross? (Jesus fulfilled the Law.)

What "Law" does God promise to put in their "inward parts" if not the Person of the Holy Spirit God promised to Israel (Joel) which the Law is itself a type and shadow of the Holy Spirit and the expression of leading and guiding the children of Israel from within on fleshly tables of the "heart" and no longer written on stone. When you sin doesn't the Holy Spirit convict you - even though you are justified - of transgressing some aspect of Moral, if not, other aspects of the Law of Moses? (stealing, adultery, false witness [lying], etc.) The prophecy of, "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD" being a reference to the subject and command to Israel of twelve tribes during the time of the Tabernacle where "neighbor" referred to someone of another tribe (situated in lots by God around the Tabernacle) and "brother" referring to someone of the same tribe? And "For I will forgive their iniquity, And I will remember their sin no more" can only be a reference to Jesus' work on the cross ("It is finished!")?

Yes, Jeremiah's prophecy of a New Covenant is definitely Christ fulfilling the Law of Moses and now that work is imputed upon the very lives of every Hebrew man and woman whose names are in the book of life of the lamb slain.

21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Luke 17:21.

And what, or should I say, WHO is the kingdom of God but Christ Himself WHO declares that He is the kingdom of God and proving it by casting out "devils" with the 'finger of God'?

20 hours ago, Luther said:

If you are in Christ, you are in the house of Israel. He is the hope of Israel.

The ONLY people in the House of Israel are those Hebrews who belonged to the ten northern kingdom tribes and the two southern kingdom tribes can only be the kingdom of Judah (including Benjamin) and they are Hebrew through and through and not some overreaching doctrine that a "Gentile" miraculously are imputed the DNA of a Hebrew when they are born-again. And, No, Gentiles cannot become joined or included in the three Hebrew covenants (Abraham, Mosaic, and New) upon their being born-again when that would be adding to the Bible something that is not there to begin with when the three covenants were made at the time of their making by God with Abraham and later with the children of Israel of twelve tribes. IF you can without ambiguity show me non-Hebrew Gentiles were originally mentioned or included in the Abraham Covenant described in Genesis 12, 15, and 17; and if you can prove with (Hebrew) Scripture non-Hebrew Gentiles mentioned or included in the Mosaic Covenant found throughout Exodus to Deuteronomy (Pentateuch) then maybe you'll have an argument, but in my studies founded upon EXEGETICAL understanding I still have not found God making any kind of covenant nor including non-Hebrew Gentiles in any of the three Hebrew covenants in the Bible. And this is a fact. I'm not doing anything but saying the obvious, but after the destruction of the Temple the reason why Gentiles was beginning to become a doctrine of inclusion into the Hebrew covenants lies directly tied to the mixed heritage Hebrews who found themselves "in charge" of the Jewish Church after Jews were driven out of Jerusalem and Israel as a nation by the Romans. These mixed heritage Hebrews (Jew-Gentile) offspring that still seed of Abraham and considered as "Gentile" by Jews because for 29-35 generations from the Assyrian Conquest and Exile going forward, these half-Jew/Gentile (quarter, eighth, etc.) grew up as Gentile in Gentile land heavily influenced by Assyrian, Babylonian, and Greek culture and were "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world" Eph 2:12.

THIS is a work of God, and it is a very marvelous thing.

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. Acts 2:11.

 

[jeremiah1five]

19 hours ago, Anne2 said:

In saying new, he has made the first old.

The new covenant was made with Israel and Judah. 

It is not new for Abraham, Isaac and Jacob it always has been the covenant made with the faithful.

Ga 3:17  And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Nor to the blessed of all nations.
Ga 3:8  And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

"In thee" meaning Abraham's seed/descendants. It can have no other interpretational understanding. It is mimicked also in the original covenant statements of God:

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. Genesis 17:6.

and

16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Genesis 17:16.

God is identifying the future offspring and seed of Abraham as coming from his loins (Ishmael and Esau included) and we know that it is biologically impossible for non-Hebrew Gentiles being born from two Hebrew parents (Abraham and Sarah; Isaac and Rebekah: Jacob and Rachael and Leah.) These three men married and had offspring with their first cousins and half-sisters from another father and great grandson, etc., of Eber [Hebrew.])