Enoch And Noah And Those To Whom They Preached By The Spirit Of Christ

[Michael37]

The belief that Jesus preached to the dead before His resurrection is not based on sound doctrine. A misinterpretation of this passage of Scripture by Roman Catholic supporters of the false doctrine of purgatory leads many down a blind alley.
1Pe 3:18-20 For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (19) By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

I hold to this interpretation adapted from Matthew Henry's Commentary:

1. For the explication of this we may notice,
(1.) The preacher - Christ Jesus, who has interested himself in the affairs of the church and of the world ever since he was first promised to Adam, Gen_3:15. He went, not by a local motion, but by special operation, as God is frequently said to move, Gen_11:5; Hos_5:15; Mic_1:3. He went and preached, by his Spirit striving with them, and inspiring and enabling Enoch and Noah to plead with them, and preach righteousness to them, as Jude 1:14-15, 2Peter 2:5.

Jud 1:14-15  And Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied to these, saying, Behold, the Lord came with myriads of His saints,  (15)  to do judgment against all, and to rebuke all the ungodly of them concerning all their ungodly works which they ungodly did, and concerning all the hard things ungodly sinners spoke against Him.

2Pe 2:5  And He did not spare the old world, but saved Noah the eighth one, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly.

(2.) The hearers. Because they were dead and disembodied when the apostle speaks of them, therefore he properly calls them spirits now in prison; not that they were in prison when Christ preached to them, as the vulgar Latin translation and the popish expositors pretend.
(3.) The sin of these people: They were disobedient, that is, rebellious, unpersuadable, and unbelieving, as the word signifies; this their sin is aggravated from the patience and long-suffering of God (which once waited upon them for 120 years together), while Noah was preparing the ark, and by that, as well as by his preaching, giving them fair warning of what was coming upon them.
(4.) The event of all: Their bodies were drowned, and their spirits cast into hell, which is called a prison (Mat_5:25; 2Pe_2:4, 2Pe_2:5); but Noah and his family, who believed and were obedient, were saved in the ark.

[Fran C]

16 hours ago, Michael37 said:

The belief that Jesus preached to the dead before His resurrection is not based on sound doctrine. A misinterpretation of this passage of Scripture by Roman Catholic supporters of the false doctrine of purgatory leads many down a blind alley.
1Pe 3:18-20 For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (19) By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

I hold to this interpretation adapted from Matthew Henry's Commentary:

1. For the explication of this we may notice,
(1.) The preacher - Christ Jesus, who has interested himself in the affairs of the church and of the world ever since he was first promised to Adam, Gen_3:15. He went, not by a local motion, but by special operation, as God is frequently said to move, Gen_11:5; Hos_5:15; Mic_1:3. He went and preached, by his Spirit striving with them, and inspiring and enabling Enoch and Noah to plead with them, and preach righteousness to them, as Jude 1:14-15, 2Peter 2:5.

Jud 1:14-15  And Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied to these, saying, Behold, the Lord came with myriads of His saints,  (15)  to do judgment against all, and to rebuke all the ungodly of them concerning all their ungodly works which they ungodly did, and concerning all the hard things ungodly sinners spoke against Him.

2Pe 2:5  And He did not spare the old world, but saved Noah the eighth one, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly.

(2.) The hearers. Because they were dead and disembodied when the apostle speaks of them, therefore he properly calls them spirits now in prison; not that they were in prison when Christ preached to them, as the vulgar Latin translation and the popish expositors pretend.
(3.) The sin of these people: They were disobedient, that is, rebellious, unpersuadable, and unbelieving, as the word signifies; this their sin is aggravated from the patience and long-suffering of God (which once waited upon them for 120 years together), while Noah was preparing the ark, and by that, as well as by his preaching, giving them fair warning of what was coming upon them.
(4.) The event of all: Their bodies were drowned, and their spirits cast into hell, which is called a prison (Mat_5:25; 2Pe_2:4, 2Pe_2:5); but Noah and his family, who believed and were obedient, were saved in the ark.

Hi Michael

I'd like to make two comments:

1.  I really do not believe the CC uses 1 Peter 3:18-19 as proof text for purgatory.  If you read this somewhere, I'd sure be interested in seeing it.

2.  The CC does have a non-definitive belief for the passage about Jesus preaching to the souls in prison (can't remember exactly how it's worded right now) and I'd be happy to pass it along.  

Will wait for your reply.

 

PS I'm not Catholic but I do know the doctrine.

Edited January 21 by Fran C

[Fran C]

17 hours ago, Michael37 said:

The belief that Jesus preached to the dead before His resurrection is not based on sound doctrine. A misinterpretation of this passage of Scripture by Roman Catholic supporters of the false doctrine of purgatory leads many down a blind alley.
1Pe 3:18-20 For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (19) By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

I hold to this interpretation adapted from Matthew Henry's Commentary:

1. For the explication of this we may notice,
(1.) The preacher - Christ Jesus, who has interested himself in the affairs of the church and of the world ever since he was first promised to Adam, Gen_3:15. He went, not by a local motion, but by special operation, as God is frequently said to move, Gen_11:5; Hos_5:15; Mic_1:3. He went and preached, by his Spirit striving with them, and inspiring and enabling Enoch and Noah to plead with them, and preach righteousness to them, as Jude 1:14-15, 2Peter 2:5.

Jud 1:14-15  And Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied to these, saying, Behold, the Lord came with myriads of His saints,  (15)  to do judgment against all, and to rebuke all the ungodly of them concerning all their ungodly works which they ungodly did, and concerning all the hard things ungodly sinners spoke against Him.

2Pe 2:5  And He did not spare the old world, but saved Noah the eighth one, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly.

(2.) The hearers. Because they were dead and disembodied when the apostle speaks of them, therefore he properly calls them spirits now in prison; not that they were in prison when Christ preached to them, as the vulgar Latin translation and the popish expositors pretend.
(3.) The sin of these people: They were disobedient, that is, rebellious, unpersuadable, and unbelieving, as the word signifies; this their sin is aggravated from the patience and long-suffering of God (which once waited upon them for 120 years together), while Noah was preparing the ark, and by that, as well as by his preaching, giving them fair warning of what was coming upon them.
(4.) The event of all: Their bodies were drowned, and their spirits cast into hell, which is called a prison (Mat_5:25; 2Pe_2:4, 2Pe_2:5); but Noah and his family, who believed and were obedient, were saved in the ark.

I'm back.

Indeed, the preaching of Jesus to the spirits in prison has always been a mystery and I agree 100% with you that any doctrine we've been able to come up with is indeed not sound.

I DID find some very interesting comments in a Catholic Bible edited or commented on by Dr. Scott Hahn, a very respected Catholic theologian that used to be Protestant.  He also writes some very good books on different topics.

Here is what I found...I think you'll find it interesting:  (the commentary is a page long).

The benefit of retrieving this forgotten perspective is obvious for interpreting 1 Pet 3:18-20. It seems now that "the spirits in prison" are not human souls at all, but fallen angels whose wickedness was closely connected with the flood in Jewish tradition. This accords well with the frequent use of "spirits" for angels in the NT (Mt 12:45; Lk 10:20; Heb 1:14)

source:  https://www.familyofsaintsharbel.org/uploads/1/2/4/2/124289884/ignatius_catholic_study_bible_new_testament_text___commentary.pdf

The above is on page 456 of the PDG format.