Free from sin?

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, Live2believe said:

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:8,9).

That is not what the Bible tells us. I don't support your interpretation.

[Vine Abider]

2 hours ago, Live2believe said:

Please read these words of the Messiah:

 

³¹ Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

³² And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

³³ They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

³⁴ Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

³⁵ And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

³⁶ If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. (John 8:31-36).

Don't you think they contradict with what you wrote? When the Son (Yahshua) moved in the house (soul) forever, the servant of sin is evicted.

Please compare with John:

 

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:8,9).

 

I have no trouble with your response . . .  to me this goes toward the discussion of how many natures a regenerated person has, and I've had that discussion many, many times - usually with little agreement. Ultimately, I think whatever light each of us has been given on this subject is sufficient for us for the place we currently are in our walk. 

[Vine Abider]

3 hours ago, Live2believe said:

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:8,9).

Here's another translation of 1 John 3:9* - "Anyone having been born of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to continue sinning, because he has been born of God."  Various translators and commentators see a more literal meaning in this verse --> once someone is regenerated they cannot continue practicing sin ongoing.  It's not that they can never sin again.  Born-again people have their spirit renewed with the Spirit of Christ, and they now have a choice of living from their spirit (which is joined to the Lord's Spirit) or their flesh. 

Before God's life came into them, they were only driven by their flesh and had no other source to choose.  Now they can choose to live according to either spirit or flesh.  And eventually, the new nature/life in them will not allow them to keep practicing sin indefinitely.  Might they still stumble and fall on occasion?  Sure, but continuing to practice a sin goes against their new life and nature.

* check out the various versions of this verse here: https://biblehub.com/1_john/3-9.htm

[Vine Abider]

17 hours ago, Michael37 said:

I have been taught and believe that in Christ we are free from the penalty of sin, but still live in peril of the presence and power of sin, providentially having the resources in Christ to overcome these.

1. Freedom from the Penalty of Sin:

   • Romans 8:1: "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."
   • 2 Corinthians 5:21: "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

2. Living in the Presence and Power of Sin:

   • Romans 7:21-25: Paul speaks of the ongoing struggle with sin, saying, "What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
   • Galatians 5:17: "For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh."

3. Resources in Christ to Overcome Sin:

   • Romans 6:14: "For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace."
   • Philippians 4:13: "I can do all this through him who gives me strength."
   • Ephesians 6:10-18: The armor of God equips believers to stand against the schemes of the devil.

These verses collectively affirm that while we are free from sin's penalty, we still contend with its presence and power. Yet, through Christ, we are empowered to live victoriously.

Indeed - the penalty AND the power of sin . . . we are freed from both in Christ.  And this is our full reality when walking in spirit.  If we are living according to the flesh, none of this truth seems real.

A favorite go-to verse of mine lately is: "If you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the spirit you put to death the practices of the body, you will live."  Romans 8:13

[Live2believe]

22 hours ago, Orion said:

God's standard is absolute perfection.  

You are right. If sin is not having absolute perfection, then all are sinners including those who are born again. However, this is NOT what sin is. This definition is not in the Bible.

Edited May 2 by Live2believe

[Live2believe]

22 hours ago, Orion said:

Did the preacher offer the other cheek?  No. Did the preacher who claimed to be in sinless perfection do as our perfectly sinless Messiah, and cry out, "Forgive him Father, for he knows not what he does."?  No.  

Everything depends on motivation and circumstances. If someone assaults you, will you imitate Christ and ask to assault your wife also (offer other cheek)? Or you will rather "sin" and defend you and your family? 

Edited May 2 by Live2believe

[Live2believe]

21 hours ago, missmuffet said:

That is not what the Bible tells us. I don't support your interpretation.

It is not an interpretation but a direct quote from the Bible.

[Live2believe]

20 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

I have no trouble with your response . . .  to me this goes toward the discussion of how many natures a regenerated person has, and I've had that discussion many, many times - usually with little agreement. Ultimately, I think whatever light each of us has been given on this subject is sufficient for us for the place we currently are in our walk. 

I agree. Yet, we should strive for better understanding.

[Live2believe]

20 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Here's another translation of 1 John 3:9* - "Anyone having been born of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to continue sinning, because he has been born of God."  Various translators and commentators see a more literal meaning in this verse --> once someone is regenerated they cannot continue practicing sin ongoing.  It's not that they can never sin again.  Born-again people have their spirit renewed with the Spirit of Christ, and they now have a choice of living from their spirit (which is joined to the Lord's Spirit) or their flesh. 

Before God's life came into them, they were only driven by their flesh and had no other source to choose.  Now they can choose to live according to either spirit or flesh.  And eventually, the new nature/life in them will not allow them to keep practicing sin indefinitely.  Might they still stumble and fall on occasion?  Sure, but continuing to practice a sin goes against their new life and nature.

* check out the various versions of this verse here: https://biblehub.com/1_john/3-9.htm

This is a popular interpretation, but the popularity does not make it right. Compare with 1 John 2:1 who is writing to the believers: My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous

The same word "sin" also can be translated as "practice sin", but in context it is a single action.

Edited May 2 by Live2believe

[missmuffet]

2 hours ago, Live2believe said:

It is not an interpretation but a direct quote from the Bible.

But you are not interpreting that verse correctly. Here is the correct meaning of that verse.

https://www.gotquestions.org/does-not-sin.html