Daniel 8-past or future?

[MK202002]

hi folks. I just can't figure out this piece of the puzzle. I will pray for wisdom for this scripture, because I just don't get it yet.

Question:

In Daniel chapter 8, the angel Gabriel says the ram is medio-persia and the goat is greece. Ok, media persia and greece have come and gone. But then the angel says the vision refers to the times of the end! (vs.17) It also eludes to the antichrist in vs.24,25,26. I never got the impression from scripture that these nations would rise again, or be key players in the endtime, but apparently I am wrong? And I don't see a seperation in this vision, it all seems to be one vision. Hmm.....help!

All these scriptures are true, and they all need to make sense.

Scripture referances: (NIV)

1 In the third year of King Belshazzar's reign, I, Daniel, had a vision, after the one that had already appeared to me. 2 In my vision I saw myself in the citadel of Susa in the province of Elam; in the vision I was beside the Ulai Canal. 3 I looked up, and there before me was a ram with two horns, standing beside the canal, and the horns were long. One of the horns was longer than the other but grew up later. 4 I watched the ram as he charged toward the west and the north and the south. No animal could stand against him, and none could rescue from his power. He did as he pleased and became great.

5 As I was thinking about this, suddenly a goat with a prominent horn between his eyes came from the west, crossing the whole earth without touching the ground. 6 He came toward the two-horned ram I had seen standing beside the canal and charged at him in great rage. 7 I saw him attack the ram furiously, striking the ram and shattering his two horns. The ram was powerless to stand against him; the goat knocked him to the ground and trampled on him, and none could rescue the ram from his power. 8 The goat became very great, but at the height of his power his large horn was broken off, and in its place four prominent horns grew up toward the four winds of heaven.

9 Out of one of them came another horn, which started small but grew in power to the south and to the east and toward the Beautiful Land. 10 It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them. 11 It set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the host; it took away the daily sacrifice from him, and the place of his sanctuary was brought low. 12 Because of rebellion, the host of the saints [a] and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.

13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, "How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled

[MK202002]

help!

[Old Timer]

The vision is interpreted by Gabriel and was fulfilled but was yet future to Daniel. I would suggest a good commentary to give a complete description. This chapter was written in Hebrew so concerns Israel. Here are the brief notes from Ryrie

[MK202002]

so you think they were and will be simular events? that gives a lot to think about. Maybe Christ's first and second coming mirror each other? thanks old timer, time for me to study!

[Old Timer]

so you think they were and will be simular events? that gives a lot to think about. Maybe Christ's first and second coming mirror each other? thanks old timer, time for me to study!

Not necessarily similar events with respect to Medo-Persia and Greece but similar characteristics between Antiochus Epiphanes and the Anti-Christ; the things he will do and the personal characteristics he will display.

Edited December 30, 2005 by Old Timer

[MK202002]

I see. I also had a friend point out to me the prophecies of Isaiha and others. They wern't necessarily spoken of in a logical topical order. Isaiha was warning Isreal about disobeying God and all of a sudden "Behold, a virgin will concieve and give birth to a son..." So the nature of prophecy seem consistent here in Daniel also.