apothanein kerdos Posted March 16, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 16, 2006 Nobody is saying one should put "personal experience" above the Bible. I am disagreeing with your conclusions as to what the Bible teaches on the subject. I am saying he should pray and seek God about whether the message is true. I think God's opinion is more reliable than yours, so if that is putting "personal experience" above the Bible to you, so be it. By the way mate, I trust that the authors of my Greek Dictionary knew what they were talking about. In addition, your definition doesn't contradict it. You said the "THE IDEA BEHIND THE WORD is offering a divine discourse on the events which have occured OR WILL OCCUR." My Greek dictionary says the word means prediction, prophecy, prophesying. Since you admit it can mean things that will occur, where is the definition off? Also, what is your source that shows "the idea behind the word is offering a divine discourse on the events which have occured or will occur?" Well my source would be me. I'm not perfect in Greek, but after a few years of study I feel I know what I'm talking about on basic definitions. It's gramatics that throw me off still. Regardless, a "prophecy" is more of a declaration and not always dealing with the future. Either way, what I was getting across is that in modern times a "seer" is someone that fortells the future on their own power. Likewise, what the OP was talking about was simply being able to do it on his own as well. One who has the gift of prophecy does so not on his own ability, but purely off what God has revealed to him. I just wonder where you got the last part of your recourse here-- (One who has the gift of prophecy does so not on his own ability, but purely off what God has revealed to him). Sure sounds like you are learning new things from this thread as I am referring to post #23 & 24 in the which your reply was then that you did not believe in the gifts but now I see a change. Study does us all good keep at it for the Lord has more things to show and teach you within his word. God Bless You Richly In The Knowledge of Him In His Stead Openly Curious Read post 27. I was saying that it's absurd to say there is a difference between prophecy and prophesying....and if we make the distinction then it isn't biblical. As for my resource...prophesy is a gift of the SPIRIT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted March 16, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 16, 2006 Nobody is saying one should put "personal experience" above the Bible. I am disagreeing with your conclusions as to what the Bible teaches on the subject. I am saying he should pray and seek God about whether the message is true. I think God's opinion is more reliable than yours, so if that is putting "personal experience" above the Bible to you, so be it. By the way mate, I trust that the authors of my Greek Dictionary knew what they were talking about. In addition, your definition doesn't contradict it. You said the "THE IDEA BEHIND THE WORD is offering a divine discourse on the events which have occured OR WILL OCCUR." My Greek dictionary says the word means prediction, prophecy, prophesying. Since you admit it can mean things that will occur, where is the definition off? Also, what is your source that shows "the idea behind the word is offering a divine discourse on the events which have occured or will occur?" Well my source would be me. I'm not perfect in Greek, but after a few years of study I feel I know what I'm talking about on basic definitions. It's gramatics that throw me off still. Regardless, a "prophecy" is more of a declaration and not always dealing with the future. Either way, what I was getting across is that in modern times a "seer" is someone that fortells the future on their own power. Likewise, what the OP was talking about was simply being able to do it on his own as well. One who has the gift of prophecy does so not on his own ability, but purely off what God has revealed to him. I just wonder where you got the last part of your recourse here-- (One who has the gift of prophecy does so not on his own ability, but purely off what God has revealed to him). Sure sounds like you are learning new things from this thread as I am referring to post #23 & 24 in the which your reply was then that you did not believe in the gifts but now I see a change. Study does us all good keep at it for the Lord has more things to show and teach you within his word. God Bless You Richly In The Knowledge of Him In His Stead Openly Curious Read post 27. I was saying that it's absurd to say there is a difference between prophecy and prophesying....and if we make the distinction then it isn't biblical. As for my resource...prophesy is a gift of the SPIRIT. Prophesying is when you speak a revealed word or message to someone or a group of people as was the case in the story of Samuel the prophet God revealed to him what would happen if the people of Israel persisted on wanting a king over them like the other nations and Samuel went and prophesied that word from God to the people. That is the gift of prophesying. Some prophets are used in this manner and gifting. Other prophets are used in prophecy such as Ezekiel and Daniel and John the Revelator these prophets had dreams and visions from God as the angel of God would reveal to them the interpretations of what those dreams were and meant and they wrote those things down. The things that these prophets were shown were end-time events that were to happen in the future. Both gifts prophesying and prophecy are relating to future tense whether that future tense is only a few days away as in the case of Sameul the prophet when Israel took the king Saul over them and rejected God as there king it was then that the prophecy of Sameul you can read did in fact come to pass. The prophecy gift is also future tense but from a much futher distance in the future tense as it relates to end-time events that are yet to happen in this earth. A prophet can have both of these gifts and be used by God to prophesy a word from the Lord that was given to them and also speak forth prophetically (Jeremiah is a good example) on the subjects dealing with end time events that are recorded and given to us by God within the pages of his word. When a preacher is speaking on the rapture and preaching to us we need to be ready to go because God could come at any moment he is speaking a prophetic utterance as the rapture is a future event as no man knows the day nor the hour in which he will return. So a person can have the gift of prophecy and know things that God has shown and revealed to them in the Spirit. But it is only prophecy at that point and until the minister speaks that prophecy forth out of his mouth that is when it becomes prophesying and it is at that time of speaking it forth that others who hear the prophecy is when the body of Christ becomes uplifted, edified and strengthened. 1 corinthians 13:9 ; 14:1-6,32 & Romans 12:6 A person can have the gift of knowledge but until they share that knowledge and speak it forth it remains a gift of knowledge within that person alone. But when that person using that gift of knowledge it is then it imparts so much to others in the office of a teacher. So a teacher can have the gift of knowledge but unless they use other gifts like the role of a teacher the other gift remains dormant within the person. God Bless Openly Curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted March 16, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 16, 2006 *sigh* There is no difference. You are looking at a verb and a noun and trying to declare that there is some kind of difference between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted March 16, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 16, 2006 (edited) *sigh* There is no difference. You are looking at a verb and a noun and trying to declare that there is some kind of difference between the two. No I'm saying there is a difference in one having the gift inside of them and in how they deliver that gift to the body of Christ. It is one thing to have a gift it is another thing to give that gift away to others. If I possess a gift from God it is something God has given to me directly for he has shown it to me personally and nobody else shares in that gift with me it remains inside of my heart and mind alone. But when I choose to share the gifts and talents I have been given by God with the Body of Christ it is then I have to take on another role in order to deliver or give the gifts and talents to the body of Christ so they will be edified and uplifted by the part God has given to me for the building up of the saints. These roles being apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers that we have to step into these offices in order for the body of Christ to benefit by the gifts we have. You can have the gift of knowledge but if you don't step into and take on the role of a teacher the gift is only dormant within yourself and nobody in the body of christ will benefit. So having a gift is quite different from delivering the gift to the body they are two seperate and distinct things. The delivery of the gifts and talents to the body of Christ is what is called the manifestation of the Spirit. It is in this delivery process that the body of Christ sees the gifts and callings of God within your life being revealed (manifested) to them as you share your part with everyone in the body as you speak forth you are then prophesying which brings exhortation, edification and comfort to the body of saints. That is why Paul the apostle said that he would we all prophesied instead of speaking in tongues without an interpreter being present because the body of christ don't get anything out of that persons gift and calling (1 corinthians 14) if we can't understand the language being used. There are many within the body of christ who are gifted by God but the body of christ will never see the manifestation of the Spirit in their lives if they don't exercise and use those gifts and talents with the saints of God. To hide one's gifts and callings doesn't bring glory to God nor the body of christ. But I'm glad you now believe or at least are acknowledging the gifts of the Spirit in the bible which is what your posts are suggesting to me now, rather than what your thoughts were at the beginning of this thread. God Bless Openly Curious Edited March 16, 2006 by Openly Curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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