Leading others to Christ

[Guest NewPilgrim]

What is salvation if we can chuck it in the bin?

God in his infinite wisdom declares a man saved, knowing full well that the same person will give up his salvation and die into condemnation, bringing the name of God into disrepute and making himself a liar in the process. - If you do not realise that your life is PURCHASED by the blood of Christ, you cannot realise what it is to have salvation. Your life is the property of Christ not of yours. You cannot take it back, no matter how you try.

The prodigal son did NOT die while he was away from his Fathers house and the point of the THREE parables (how easily we forget the sheep and the coin) is that in straying from our rightful home (the bosom of Christ) we shall, either by hook or by crook, be returned to the fold. Return of your own will or be sought out and carried back, either way you belong to the master and either way you shall remain.

To humour the point, if he HAD died away from home, the Son would still have been the Son and there is certainly nothing in the passage that he was rejected by his Father at any point, quite the opposite in fact.

God says we HAVE BEEN called, justified and glorified (Romans 8:29). Meaning that God has forseen that those who are called unto salvation are already glorified in eternity

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 *if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. 9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner. 10 For God is not unjust to forget your work and *labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister. 11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 that you do not become sluggish, but imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

[David from New Bern]

What is salvation if we can chuck it in the bin?

God in his infinite wisdom declares a man saved, knowing full well that the same person will give up his salvation and die into condemnation, bringing the name of God into disrepute and making himself a liar in the process. - If you do not realise that your life is PURCHASED by the blood of Christ, you cannot realise what it is to have salvation. Your life is the property of Christ not of yours. You cannot take it back, no matter how you try.

The prodigal son did NOT die while he was away from his Fathers house and the point of the THREE parables (how easily we forget the sheep and the coin) is that in straying from our rightful home (the bosom of Christ) we shall, either by hook or by crook, be returned to the fold. Return of your own will or be sought out and carried back, either way you belong to the master and either way you shall remain.

To humour the point, if he HAD died away from home, the Son would still have been the Son and there is certainly nothing in the passage that he was rejected by his Father at any point, quite the opposite in fact.

God says we HAVE BEEN called, justified and glorified (Romans 8:29). Meaning that God has forseen that those who are called unto salvation are already glorified in eternity

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 *if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. 9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner. 10 For God is not unjust to forget your work and *labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister. 11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 that you do not become sluggish, but imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Good interpretation, good insight, and the gospel truth...Clear and simple as a parable always is..

[MrBear]

In my case I let the Lord do the heavy work

my grandfather was a preacher, ( he passed before I was born)grandmother played piano at the church , she led the choir did all the pastor wife duty and took myself and little brother to church on the weekends my mom got custody ( every other weekend)

Still went to church on the weeks I was with dad ( it was a religious household

BUT I would always get talked to by the elders and deacons of the church “ you need to get baptized”

” have you thoughts about getting baptized?” , “ your grandmother is getting older don’t you want her to know you will see her in heaven?”

It really turned me off, I regret my grandmother passed before seeing me baptized, I still go to her grave up the street and sit and read the word.

I actually got baptized on my birthday, I thought I can celebrate 2 birthdays at once, and the Lord made it happen??

Bur I feel “ pushing” the Father on someone can have negative affects, we may think we are doing the right thing, but like those elders had my best interest at heart they were actually having the opposite affects on my spirit 

I think we all have a little of the spirit in us just like Abraham was the son of the idol maker for Nimrod, but God was able to speak to him, and he can speak to all of us.

Even if not Baptized, He has a plan for everyone and his timing can’t be rushed,. Sometimes we have to go through trials to be ready to accept him,.

And so it was with me, so I will plant the seed and let the Father do his will on his timetable

( miss you g’ma)

SHALOM❤️

[JohnD]

2 hours ago, MrBear said:

In my case I let the Lord do the heavy work

my grandfather was a preacher, ( he passed before I was born)grandmother played piano at the church , she led the choir did all the pastor wife duty and took myself and little brother to church on the weekends my mom got custody ( every other weekend)

Still went to church on the weeks I was with dad ( it was a religious household

BUT I would always get talked to by the elders and deacons of the church “ you need to get baptized”

” have you thoughts about getting baptized?” , “ your grandmother is getting older don’t you want her to know you will see her in heaven?”

It really turned me off, I regret my grandmother passed before seeing me baptized, I still go to her grave up the street and sit and read the word.

I actually got baptized on my birthday, I thought I can celebrate 2 birthdays at once, and the Lord made it happen??

Bur I feel “ pushing” the Father on someone can have negative affects, we may think we are doing the right thing, but like those elders had my best interest at heart they were actually having the opposite affects on my spirit 

I think we all have a little of the spirit in us just like Abraham was the son of the idol maker for Nimrod, but God was able to speak to him, and he can speak to all of us.

Even if not Baptized, He has a plan for everyone and his timing can’t be rushed,. Sometimes we have to go through trials to be ready to accept him,.

And so it was with me, so I will plant the seed and let the Father do his will on his timetable

( miss you g’ma)

SHALOM❤️

Reading your account brought back memories of my Grandmothers.

My father's mother I found in an old letter, after she passed away, was a teen on fire for the Lord (wanting everyone to be saved. By the time I was old enough to remember her or what she said, I just recall her saying "remember the Lord" when we said good bye. She ended the one or two letters I ever received from her that was too. Grandma played piano for her Church every Sunday. 

My mother's mother was more involved with our rearing (lived closer, saw more frequently especially mother was one of those "I'm going home to mother" types which we often did). Grandma had a rule, if the grand kids were at her house on Sunday we went to Church no exceptions. If she was at our house on Sunday (she always scouted out a Church to attend in our town) she asked us to go to Church (which we rarely did).

It's interesting noting my two Godly Grandmothers' walk with Jesus Christ. And how it manifested over the course of their lifetimes.

In my life as well. The Lord chose me at age 6 (for what I did not know). Age 9 I managed to argue the validity of my faith in Jesus to a Church of Christ's leadership who allowed my Father to water baptize me. Something I will always cherish, especially since he died 2 years later. But I was already baptized by Jesus Christ at age 6.

No disrespect to anyone, but even John the (water) Baptist believed and pointed out that water baptism is only an outward sign of an inward transformation (from unbelief to belief) that Jesus Christ by his sacrifice enabled us to have.

Matthew 3:11 (LEB)
11 I baptize you with water for repentance, but the one who comes after me is more powerful than I am, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Ephesians 2:8 (LEB)
8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God;

That even our faith / ability to believe is a gift from God.

At times in my youth I followed the path of worldliness. In my adult years I determined to do the traditions of man thing (thinking it was the biblical path to God / pleasing God / ministry etc).  I found my efforts to reach the lost actually pushed people away. My arguments were sound, bible based, logical. I even fancied myself an apologist in the likes of Christian Research Institute founder the late great Doctor Walter Martin... the original "Bible Answer Man..."

I think I led one dear soul to Christ and that was before I got deeply devoted to apologetics. After that, that I am aware of, none. Oh I may have planted seeds, but this great apologetic / evangelical thrust I believed was my calling in life for the Lord was my own calling for my ego apparently.

The Lord is the one who converts souls from unbelief to belief. And he may orchestrate the circumstances to the point of miracles... but he always only asks. People wonder why things are the way they are (good or bad) so that we can have choice and therefore choices... and the world that is is the result. 

People love religion. The trappings, the language, the pomp and circumstance... the traditions.

God, not so much.

To God, religion gets in the way of having the relationship he wants to have with us. Religion is filled with superstition, misinterpretation of scripture, traditions and requirements that hinder spiritual growth and encourages addiction to spiritual highs... that sours the prospects of future believers (if for no other reason, they perceive a Christian religion as no different than any other religion)... then there's the traditions of man interpretation of the Bible that brings about hate and hate speech. No one will ever be hated into the kingdom! Only love.

Now I am the age my grandmothers were when I was a child.  I wonder if this isn't typical in the faith, how on fire we are in the beginning, then a loose canon, then mature.  From "everybody's gotta know" to "if it was meant to be..."

Present circumstances. We are a kingdom of priests, but few if any know it. We are institutionalized in the Church Organization Complex masquerading as the Church Organism. We are told we are either clergy or laity (which is Old Testament after Exodus 32). Originally, God's plan was that the entire nation of Israel would be priests (Exodus 19:6). The Church is supposed to be (Revelation 1:6 / Revelation 5:10 / 1 Peter 2:3-9) so the Gospel could be spread exponentially.  

[MrBear]

2 hours ago, JohnD said:

Reading your account brought back memories of my Grandmothers.

My father's mother I found in an old letter, after she passed away, was a teen on fire for the Lord (wanting everyone to be saved. By the time I was old enough to remember her or what she said, I just recall her saying "remember the Lord" when we said good bye. She ended the one or two letters I ever received from her that was too. Grandma played piano for her Church every Sunday. 

My mother's mother was more involved with our rearing (lived closer, saw more frequently especially mother was one of those "I'm going home to mother" types which we often did). Grandma had a rule, if the grand kids were at her house on Sunday we went to Church no exceptions. If she was at our house on Sunday (she always scouted out a Church to attend in our town) she asked us to go to Church (which we rarely did).

It's interesting noting my two Godly Grandmothers' walk with Jesus Christ. And how it manifested over the course of their lifetimes.

In my life as well. The Lord chose me at age 6 (for what I did not know). Age 9 I managed to argue the validity of my faith in Jesus to a Church of Christ's leadership who allowed my Father to water baptize me. Something I will always cherish, especially since he died 2 years later. But I was already baptized by Jesus Christ at age 6.

No disrespect to anyone, but even John the (water) Baptist believed and pointed out that water baptism is only an outward sign of an inward transformation (from unbelief to belief) that Jesus Christ by his sacrifice enabled us to have.

Matthew 3:11 (LEB)
11 I baptize you with water for repentance, but the one who comes after me is more powerful than I am, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Ephesians 2:8 (LEB)
8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God;

That even our faith / ability to believe is a gift from God.

At times in my youth I followed the path of worldliness. In my adult years I determined to do the traditions of man thing (thinking it was the biblical path to God / pleasing God / ministry etc).  I found my efforts to reach the lost actually pushed people away. My arguments were sound, bible based, logical. I even fancied myself an apologist in the likes of Christian Research Institute founder the late great Doctor Walter Martin... the original "Bible Answer Man..."

I think I led one dear soul to Christ and that was before I got deeply devoted to apologetics. After that, that I am aware of, none. Oh I may have planted seeds, but this great apologetic / evangelical thrust I believed was my calling in life for the Lord was my own calling for my ego apparently.

The Lord is the one who converts souls from unbelief to belief. And he may orchestrate the circumstances to the point of miracles... but he always only asks. People wonder why things are the way they are (good or bad) so that we can have choice and therefore choices... and the world that is is the result. 

People love religion. The trappings, the language, the pomp and circumstance... the traditions.

God, not so much.

To God, religion gets in the way of having the relationship he wants to have with us. Religion is filled with superstition, misinterpretation of scripture, traditions and requirements that hinder spiritual growth and encourages addiction to spiritual highs... that sours the prospects of future believers (if for no other reason, they perceive a Christian religion as no different than any other religion)... then there's the traditions of man interpretation of the Bible that brings about hate and hate speech. No one will ever be hated into the kingdom! Only love.

Now I am the age my grandmothers were when I was a child.  I wonder if this isn't typical in the faith, how on fire we are in the beginning, then a loose canon, then mature.  From "everybody's gotta know" to "if it was meant to be..."

Present circumstances. We are a kingdom of priests, but few if any know it. We are institutionalized in the Church Organization Complex masquerading as the Church Organism. We are told we are either clergy or laity (which is Old Testament after Exodus 32). Originally, God's plan was that the entire nation of Israel would be priests (Exodus 19:6). The Church is supposed to be (Revelation 1:6 / Revelation 5:10 / 1 Peter 2:3-9) so the Gospel could be spread exponentially.  

Well said 

Yes g’ ma was the same it was church every Sunday no excuses, I found an old Bible she gifted me years after she passed with her inscription in it, a special memory of a special lady?
SHALOM❤️

[Willa]

We are told that the Holy Spirit is the earnest, the down payment that promises us the fullness.  

Eph 1:14  AMP. The Spirit is the guarantee [the first installment, the pledge, a foretaste] of our inheritance until the redemption of God's own [purchased] possession [His believers], to the praise of His glory.

I don't believe we can lose our salvation.  I do believe a person can reject it and change religions like the disillusioned Jews were being frightened into doing when the book of Hebrews was written.  They were returning to Judaism.  

However, it is hard to believe that genuine Christians would do this after being filled with the Spirit and walking with God.  Most people know someone who has done this before going on to maturity.  God does continue to call them back to Himself, and we continue to pray for them.