Why did Paul make vows in the book of Acts??

[nanasimmons]

Acts 18:18;21:20-27 (61-63 A.D.)

Concerning Paul making vows the gentile writer Luke(see Luke 1:1-4;Acts 1:1-3) doesn't record what Paul's vows were he only records the events.

Most other letters written by Paul were written before Acts.Gal. 49-55;1,2 Thess. 50-51; 1,2 Cor. 55-57;Phil,Colo,Phile,and Eph 60-62 A.D.

As we already know in Gal.2:3-5 how Titus was no compelled to be circumcised.

And in 1 Cor. 9:19-22 Paul said to the jew I became as a jew...

Paul was unique in that he was sent to start the church age,A couple died for lying to the Holy Spirit, a sorcerer was made blind,prison doors were opened thousands of people were recieving the Holy Spirit ,it was serious bussiness.

As far as vows,people make them every day.I tend to stay on the safer side Ecc.5:5

But if you were going to hand out tracts,would you stand out in you front yard??

It would be foolish for me I live in the country.

If you wanted to get a message to a certian church congragation would you go on a Monday??

No, we would want to go to the busiest place to hand out tracts and to the church on Sunday when every one is there. Thats what I think Paul was doing.

As far as the sacrifices go, we should all agree that Paul knows they are no longer nessesary.

But of course he would offer them unless he only wants to offend them, And what purpose would that serve to bring people to Christ??

[Guest shiloh357]

Nana,

The vows you are referring to are the Nazarite vows commanded by God in the book of Numbers. The completion of these vows included sacrifices, which Paul did at least twice, in Acts , 18 and 21. Paul did not do this to bring people to Christ. In fact, if you read Acts 21, Paul performed multiple sacrifices for men under a Nazarite vow to prove that he was NOT telling people to forsake the Torah of Moses.

As we already know in Gal.2:3-5 how Titus was no compelled to be circumcised.

Yet, Paul personally circumcized Timothy.

And in 1 Cor. 9:19-22 Paul said to the jew I became as a jew...

What Paul means is that he empathizes with his audience. In that passage, Paul is not saying that he lived as a Jew when among the Jews and then went and ate pork with the Romans, and so forth. What Paul did was identify intellectually and emotionally with those he was trying to reach. We call it, "being culturally relevant." Paul was aware of the unique circumstances of his hearers and he spoke to them accordingly. Paul taylored his messages to address the needs of the particular audience he was addressing. There is no "one size fits all" sermon.

Paul would not have used the Talmud when preaching to the Romans, and he would not have quoted Greek philosphers when debating in the synagogue.

Too often people think that Paul changed his colors and habits to suit his audiences and that is not so. Paul was a completely Torah observant, kosher, feast and sabbath keeping, JEW. The coming of Messiah, did not in Paul's eyes, eradicate his Jewishness. Rather the coming of Messiah augmented it. Paul was a better Jew because of Jesus. The coming of the Messiah was the crowning pinnacle of faith, not the destruction of it.

[Dad Ernie]

Too often people think that Paul changed his colors and habits to suit his audiences and that is not so. Paul was a completely Torah observant, kosher, feast and sabbath keeping, JEW. The coming of Messiah, did not in Paul's eyes, eradicate his Jewishness. Rather the coming of Messiah augmented it. Paul was a better Jew because of Jesus. The coming of the Messiah was the crowning pinnacle of faith, not the destruction of it.

Greetings Shiloh 357,

You may want to consider:

1 Cor 9:19-23 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ) that I might gain them that are without law. 22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[nanasimmons]

Shiloh,

First of all I do not see any commandment that any one has to make a vow,in the law. I could be wrong I wish you could give scripture ref. so I can read them.

Where does it say that( Saul his jewish name)Paul (his roman name) circumcised Titus??

Gal.2:5 paul is saying--But we wanted them to have the true message thats why we didn't give in to them,not even for one second!

Lev 20:23-36 God tell the Israelites not to walk in the manner as other nations,That He had seperated them from other people.

you shall put the differance between clean and unclean and you shall not make you souls abominable by beast,fowl,or manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground which I have seperated from YOU as unclean

and you shall be holy unto me for I am holy and have severed you from other people that you shall be mine.

Of course from Adam to Noah about 1556 years they were only eating green herbs the animals too. We don't see any extra animals going on the ark to feed any lusts for meat yet. I'm sure you've got some people stuck back in that ditch too.Then we have God telling Noah that he has given all the creatures (that moveth) upon the earth for FOOD just as He gave all the green herbs He giveth. He then causes the animals to fear man.

Noah could have rejected this saying 600yrs I have never eaten a animal let it not be.But he didn't. Thus unless you read something into it that the Bible doesn't say...From Noah to Moses the animals were not forbidden to eat .God did have Moses The writer, call some animals on the ark unclean but He does not restrict them yet.Except eating the blood reenstated in the commandments given to the gentiles in Acts.The life is in the blood and God will require of the person who does this.

In the gospels Jesus Himself states foods themselves are not the defiling element they cannot make a person unclean. The peter asked him again away from the crowd and He tells him the same thing.He does not tell them to eat because they are still under the law. But He does give the vision to Peter three times He tells him to take and eat of course Peter dis obeys by saying Not,so Lord.The reply what God has cleansed,that call not common.You can reject it if you want but My God doesn't live in a box and I don't feel He has changed as some would say.God is the one who told both Adam and Noah's families to multiply and we know that God tells us now that it is sin to marry close kin. But Abraham was married to his fathers daughter ....that list goes on. We are suppose to be two folds brought together into one flock,I don't see how we are suppose to still be (separated) by our nationalaties. Yes the unbelieving jews/gentiles but the body of Christ..I don't see it!

In Phil. 3:3 true circumcision" For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the Spirit,and rejoice in Christ Jesus,and have no confidence in the flesh.

Then he goes on to say if any man hade a reason to boast that he was the jew of the jew if there ever was one. He tells how according to righteousness which is in the law he was blameless for persecuting the church.

But what things were gain to him he now count it as loss for Christ,he counts them all as dung that he may win Christ.

And he wants to be found in Him not having his own righteousness,which is of the law But that which is through the Faith of Christ,the righteousness which is of God by faith.

I have 4 boys ages 1,21,22,23 and I had them all circumcised(not on the eighth day) not because I felt that I had to because of the law but because personally I felt it would make them more excepted and for their future wives too.

[nanasimmons]

My point was that the nazerite(I had that word in my note but didn't include them in the post)vow the Paul took(thats between God and him) still doesn't take away the fact that Paul was tring to win converts to Christ.

As far as unclean animals if any one does a complete study on the gods of Egypt,Babolyon,and the old Roman empire you'll be able to understand the defiling element false gods..

They had gods/godesses of the earth,sky, heaven,sea,first fruits of crops and children,humans having relations with animals,human sacrifices,hawks,owls,cats,bears,snakes,dolphins,eagels,worship of fire,blonde haired-blue-eyed godess riding a chariot led by boars,moon,sun,stars,magic;demons,monkeys,dragons, the list goes on and on.Even the ones that sacrificed cows and goats burned them alive!

It baffles me that they can say that Peters vision is not talking about animals it talking about gentiles,but they don't see the connection of the unclean animals and the pagan people.??

When the new temple gets rebuilt in Jerusalem, and it will with the help of anti-christ, will the believers feel compelled to go sacrifice animals again??This concerns me..

The jewish non-believers are waiting for a not God man to come

[Guest shiloh357]

Too often people think that Paul changed his colors and habits to suit his audiences and that is not so. Paul was a completely Torah observant, kosher, feast and sabbath keeping, JEW. The coming of Messiah, did not in Paul's eyes, eradicate his Jewishness. Rather the coming of Messiah augmented it. Paul was a better Jew because of Jesus. The coming of the Messiah was the crowning pinnacle of faith, not the destruction of it.

Greetings Shiloh 357,

You may want to consider:

1 Cor 9:19-23 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ) that I might gain them that are without law. 22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

DE, I alreadly commented on that passage in initial response to Nana. Please reread post #2 more carefully.

[nebula]

21 "To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ) that I might gain them that are without law."

Hmm . . . does that mean Paul became uncircumcised when preaching to the Gentiles?

***

OK, seriously -

nanasimmons - I'm not sure I am understanding what point you are trying to argue.

The council in Jerusalem under James and Peter concluded that the Gentile believers wouldn't be required to come over the yoke of the Law in order to follow Jesus . . .

But they didn't rule that the Jewish believers should or would cease from being Torah observant.

As for Peter's vision, he himself testified that the Lord used the animals to symbolize the Gentiles. If not for the vision, he may not have gone to Cornelius' house and eaten (fellowshiped) with them.

Paul's message is clear: Let the Jews remain Jews and the Gentiles remain Gentiles, but let not one despise the other for such.

[nanasimmons]

As Jesus said;Before Abraham was I AM

I to feel by believing the kosher laws still apply, what you are actually saying is gentiles are unclean things in the body of Christ...

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh,

First of all I do not see any commandment that any one has to make a vow,in the law. I could be wrong I wish you could give scripture ref. so I can read them.

I am sorry, I should not have said that the Nazarite vow was commanded. It was a voluntary vow, however there were commandments as to how it was to be carried out. This includes shaving one's head and offering the prescribed sacrifices.

Where does it say that( Saul his jewish name)Paul (his roman name) circumcised Titus??

I did not say that it does say that. I said that Paul personally circumcized Timothy in Acts 16:3. Paul was not an appeaser. He did not do "Jewish things" to pacify the Jews. Paul was a rabbinic, Torah observant Jew, and remained so until the end of His life. Timothy's mother was a Jew, and therefore under Jewish Law, Timothy was circumcized by Paul.

Gal.2:5 paul is saying--But we wanted them to have the true message thats why we didn't give in to them,not even for one second!

Titus was not Jewish, not even part Jewish. So I really don't see your point.

Of course from Adam to Noah about 1556 years they were only eating green herbs the animals too. We don't see any extra animals going on the ark to feed any lusts for meat yet. I'm sure you've got some people stuck back in that ditch too.Then we have God telling Noah that he has given all the creatures (that moveth) upon the earth for FOOD just as He gave all the green herbs He giveth. He then causes the animals to fear man.

Noah could have rejected this saying 600yrs I have never eaten a animal let it not be.But he didn't. Thus unless you read something into it that the Bible doesn't say...From Noah to Moses the animals were not forbidden to eat .God did have Moses The writer, call some animals on the ark unclean but He does not restrict them yet.Except eating the blood reenstated in the commandments given to the gentiles in Acts.The life is in the blood and God will require of the person who does this.

In the gospels Jesus Himself states foods themselves are not the defiling element they cannot make a person unclean. The peter asked him again away from the crowd and He tells him the same thing.He does not tell them to eat because they are still under the law. But He does give the vision to Peter three times He tells him to take and eat of course Peter dis obeys by saying Not,so Lord.The reply what God has cleansed,that call not common.You can reject it if you want but My God doesn't live in a box and I don't feel He has changed as some would say.God is the one who told both Adam and Noah's families to multiply and we know that God tells us now that it is sin to marry close kin. But Abraham was married to his fathers daughter ....that list goes on. We are suppose to be two folds brought together into one flock,I don't see how we are suppose to still be (separated) by our nationalaties. Yes the unbelieving jews/gentiles but the body of Christ..I don't see it!

In Phil. 3:3 true circumcision" For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the Spirit,and rejoice in Christ Jesus,and have no confidence in the flesh.

Then he goes on to say if any man hade a reason to boast that he was the jew of the jew if there ever was one. He tells how according to righteousness which is in the law he was blameless for persecuting the church.

To be honest, the rest of what you wrote has no organization or flow of thought. Please organize this better so that I can respond to it. It appears that you have issues confused. You are tyring to address the issue of the dietary laws, but it is clear that you do not have a firm grasp on it. I really don't understand what you are trying to argue about here.

[nanasimmons]

I guess the point I was tring to make is that God has always done things differently in due times. In different generations,in stages.I can only imagine what it was like as God sent different messages through different prophets.One saying they should be ashamed,the other saying chin up,one pronouncing judgement,the other restoring them. All was Gods plan in just the right season but I'm sure there were men of old ,saying this couldn't be the word of God,it must mean something else,God never changes.

But for some reason some would like to believe that God could not tell His own poeple what to do and when to do it.

I hope that the church doesn't have to be in complete unity before He comes for us because that would be never. Personally I was hopeing it would be in the next few years.