"HOMOSEXUAL CHRISTIANS"

[Spunky]

No yellin here Secondeve,

I offer you only christianly love and pray someday your

view will change and you will come to know Jesus.

I ask only this question since you state you are an

atheist I would like your view.

Do you feel that Churches should have to marry

homosexual couples?

God Bless!

[secondeve]

Spunky:

Thank you for your question Here's my answer:

I think it is a shame that some gay Christian couples (or people who consider themselves both, in case anyone wants to argue definitions) cannot have a church marriage in accordance with their beliefs. It seems to me a kinder intrepretation of Christianity to forgive the sin of homosexuality and instead embrace the love of two people, regardless of gender, in a ceremony. I support whichever churches choose to condone it. That being said, allowing such a thing is a question of doctrine. Christians can forbid such things according to the Bible as well as endorse them, whatever alternate-minded believers have to say about it, and I couldn't impose a moratorium to make all churches conform- nor would I.

In general, however, I don't believe that marriage as a concept is the sole province of Christianity. Every faith has its own ceremonies, and the concept has been around for longer than Torah. In this respect, I believe that civil unions should be universally permitted between both straight and gay couples. Christianity does not 'own' the sole definition of marraige anymore than Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism or any other appropriate 'ism' does. If gays want to marry outside the church, then the church should not be able to prohibit them; within the church, the matter is up to individual Christian communities, no matter what I or anyone else might think should be the case.

[eric]

Oh I don't think any christian on this board would start screaming at you eve, you've made your point and as long as the young up and coming new christians, know you are an atheist, they will treat your remarks with the contempt they deserve. So why don't you just trickle off and go and do what atheists do somewhere else. Now that may seem a very unchristian thing to say, and I know a mod or two that will probably repremand me for saying it, but I did hold out hopes for you for a time, but, if and when God decides to change you into a believer, He will send His holy spirit and you will see things in a new light. There is not a single person in this world can make you a believer

I think you said in one of your earlier posts, I can't remember which, you only came here to this board to show the different sides of atheism, or words to that effect, Well, eve. atheism has only one side, that concerns the christians on this board, and that side is, they are anti Christ. full stop.

Have a nice day in Seedney,

e

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

When you become a christian and babtized in the water, you are free from your sin. Which means you stop sinning like you used to. Simply put, there can not be homosexual *CHRISTIANS*,

1Jo

[Guest charlie]

I'm no scientist. Yet I believe and correct me if I'm wrong. That the likes of smoking drugs or taking drugs to an extent can actually alter brain chemistry. For that matter the smoking of cigarettes can actually alter the chemistry of ones body.

Now I would hypothesize that the effects of long term exposure to repeated sin in the same fashion could bring forth a chemical response.

I don't think smoking cigarettes or taking drugs is spiritual; that's a physical thing someone does to the body; it is a bad habit. And yes they do alter the brain chemisty but you're ingesting something.

I have no idea if sex, any kind of sex, alters the chemical responses of the body except of course when a woman becomes

pregnant or when you catch a venereal disease.

While I think most people are born gay I do think it can also be culturally taught. It was the norm in ancient Greece and it was also quite prevelant in ancient Rome. I did a paper in college on ancient Greece and was quite horrified to discover that it was culturally unacceptable for a man of any social standing to be seen in public with a woman; they were for procreation. Finding a handsome young boy to accompany you everywhere was the "thing" to do in those days. <<<<ugh>>>>>> I've since wondered if there were many ancient Greek men who were "closet straights" who simply pretended to be bisexual in order to "fit in". -- Anyway, homosexuallity has been around forever so it's not gonna go away; you obviously can't pray it away.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

I beg to differ. I do believe that taking drugs and being an alcoholic definately are Spiritual aspects. yes it is a physical act. However, what usually leads to their consumption? Anxiety, fear, depression, etc.....

As far as sex triggering a chemical response in the brain? I do believe that it also does this as well. We do not need to get into detailed discussions on this subject here. However there are certain feelings that are released before, during, and after the act. Which would definately correlate to a release of a stimulant in the brain to render such a feeling. A chemical reaction.

Yes, sin has been around since the fall Charlie. We are all susceptable to it.

Peace,

Dave

[mike2]

Spunky:

Thank you for your question Here's my answer:

I think it is a shame that some gay Christian couples (or people who consider themselves both, in case anyone wants to argue definitions) cannot have a church marriage in accordance with their beliefs. It seems to me a kinder intrepretation of Christianity to forgive the sin of homosexuality and instead embrace the love of two people, regardless of gender, in a ceremony. I support whichever churches choose to condone it. That being said, allowing such a thing is a question of doctrine. Christians can forbid such things according to the Bible as well as endorse them, whatever alternate-minded believers have to say about it, and I couldn't impose a moratorium to make all churches conform- nor would I.

In general, however, I don't believe that marriage as a concept is the sole province of Christianity. Every faith has its own ceremonies, and the concept has been around for longer than Torah. In this respect, I believe that civil unions should be universally permitted between both straight and gay couples. Christianity does not 'own' the sole definition of marraige anymore than Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism or any other appropriate 'ism' does. If gays want to marry outside the church, then the church should not be able to prohibit them; within the church, the matter is up to individual Christian communities, no matter what I or anyone else might think should be the case.

For the record I believe that homosexuality is a sin.

What I see happening over and over again is the ridiculuos argument of wether they should be allowed to marry or not.

We have to step back and realize that that argument is distracting us from the real issue of wether homosexuality is a sin or not.

If it is considered a sin and the couple still choose to practice, wether they are Christians or not, wether they claim to be Christians or not, they are still sinning.

AND wether they choose to get married is really irrelevant.

Where I draw the line is when the CHURCH condones it by saying its OK. All that will do, is what it is doing now, it is dividing us because of the love we feel for sinners, and, because of our own sin, we are afraid to tell others of their sin ( really we are just serving ourselves then).

In the face of so much biblical evidence, not only about the act of homosexuality, but about how we should be careful not to mislead others, why would a Christian choose to push the acceptance of their homosexuality on others.

Second eve, I understand you are an atheist, but to understand my train of thought, grab your bible and check out 1 Cor 8:10, 11 (maybe to get the jest of the context read a bit before), also Eric, after your last comment, I would suggest a recap as well

And second eve, in His time,

God will make Himself unbelievably known to you

Please, please, please, let me be the first to know

in Gods love

mike2

[Azarel Star]

Secondeve

You are an athiest on a Christian message board...that alone is a blessing...forget about the homosexuality thang for a minute...now I know you will dispute, but I'd say 8 out of 10 athiests I've talked to have all experienced some type of life trauma that deterred them away from GOD. That may be your case, maybe not...maybe you were raised by the preacher and his wife, and heard all this religious mumbo jumbo all your life so when you turned 18 you were estatic about moving out from them and GOD(like me )I used to be an athiest because I was tired of listening to my grandfather preach on and on about goin to hell, and dyin on crosses and the sort. I was abandoned by my mom, did'nt know(and still don't know)who my father was(he's dead)and raised in foster homes until I was 18 and emancipated. My life was'nt peachy but it was'nt nearly as bad as some. basically my point is, I know where you're coming from. Christianity can't explain all the hows, whens, and whats, it can't be scientifically proven, and it isn't a physical experience to encounter(well sometimes it is). but my testimony is I've felt so alone all my life, I don't know my biological family, heck I've seen my brothers and sisters and they don't even know who I am. I've had deep emotional scars of pain, hurt and the worst of all for me...rejection. I hated GOD for not allowing me to have a family, at age 11 I even pricked my finger and wrote a blood contract to the devil, saying that he could have my soul cause I did'nt want it.(crazy, huh?)I've done all the wild sex, drinking, drugs and livin "life" to the fullest. Then one day I realized that I was still hurting, when my high wore off my heart was still breaking, even when my body was full of alcohol, I still felt so empty. And HE came...the lover of my soul...HE called me..Just one day it clicked...TRY GOD...my friend that I used to get high with had a friend that went to church. He invited me to church(not one of those dead churches where you get condemned for everything, but a loving, teaching church)a couple sundays later I got saved, and the process began. GOD began(and is still)stripping all the dead weight from me. I can't explain the actual inner peace, the joy, the love I have for him...to have a relationship with GOD, is to walk blindfolded through this world but not even care because there is heaven on the inside of that blindfold...he speaks to me, encourages me, picks me up when I stumble, provides for me, HES the mother that left me, the father that died, the family I don't know.He's everything to me...I don't know you SecondEVE but I love you so much that I wish you could experience this...he turned a hard-shelled hardheaded little girl into a softy(I'm tearing up now )I hope this inspires you...and if not you than somebody

[secondeve]

Looks like I've got a coupla responses here, so I'm going to answer them backwards, one by one.

Azarel Star:

I'm sorry for the terrible things you've gone through in my life, and I'm glad you've found your own kind of peace. As for me, I'm not one of those people who had a bad experienced with God and then moved on to better things. Both my parents are athiests, but not preachy about it. I was christened, but all three of us are only 'Anglicans' on paper; it never made a single other appearence in my family life. I was never told that religion was wrong or right- I just grew up without it. I've studied it at university, gone into detailed correspondence with my Christian friends, learned at school in religion classes. My two best friends are Catholic and Seventh Day Adventist (formerly Christian), both active in their communities and devout. It's not like I've never been exposed to the idea of God- it just never seemed important. There are times in my life when I feel overwhelmed by the fortune of my life- the fact that I exist at all, at how beautiful things are. It amazes me to think of ancient the universe is, of how many people have lived and loved and died before I was even born, who live now and who I'll never know. I guess what I'm saying is, I've always felt content with the universe and my place in it. I was depressed in my final year of school due to insomnia, unrequited love, exams, commuting, trying to write a novel and doing more subjects than anyone else in my grade, but I got through it on my own. All the pain passed, and the universe gleamed again. I've got no other way to describe it. I am who I am; but I'm also curious. I like people and I like ideas. It's part of why I'm here. So that's my story. Thank you for sharing yours

Mike2:

I know you believe that homosexuality is a sin. What I was trying to say was, I doubt that you'll convince me of your position, and I certainly can't convince you of mine, so let's discuss the issue in the areas in which we have common ground. Or something like that

Matthiasj:

See above. Also, regardless of whether or not you accept the brain chemistry thing, the research has been done and the conclusions made. I wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise. And I agree with Charlie about your take on smoking etc. Depression is not, I think, a spiritual thing- it is the result of chemical imbalances in the brain caused by or in conjunction with a fluctating emotional state. If we smoke or drink because of it, the effects of these substances is what affects our body, not the internal intentions which caused them.

and, finally

Eric:

I'm not sure how you can justify ending your post with a smiley face and a compliment when the rest of what you've said has been snide and insulting. I don't see any point in responsing in kind, so I won't waste the words. I will, however, say this: I had hoped you might have been talking to me because what I said was either relevant or worthwhile in some small way. Even if you wished to turn me, I may still have been an interesting person in my own right. What does it say about both of us, then, that I cease to be important or worthy of courtesy (or, for that matter, the subject of your concern) as soon as you give up the hope of my conversion?

[Christian]

as long as the young up and coming new christians, know you are an atheist, they will treat your remarks with the contempt they deserve.

I think you said in one of your earlier posts, I can't remember which, you only came here to this board to show the different sides of atheism, or words to that effect, Well, eve. atheism has only one side, that concerns the christians on this board, and that side is, they are anti Christ. full stop.

Thank you for saying this brother. I'll never understand why "non-believers" and atheists insist on hanging around Christian websites. Aren't there other websites out there where these anti-Christs can gather? Why such a need to try to "prove" their points to us. In my opinion, far too much time and energy is spent in the "Outer Court" dancing around with pagans, much to Satan's delight. It is obvious that the love of Christ has not reached their hearts, and may not, so all we can do is pray for them and move on. No one will be argued into heaven brothers and sisters, so save your breath. Let these non-believers "debate" amongst themselves and don't give the enemy so much "air time" here on Worthy.

Blessings to you brothers and sisters

God's mercy to you unbelievers

in His service

-CC-