David from New Bern Posted May 24, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 527 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/21/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1964 Share Posted May 24, 2006 I hope no one here believes in relativism. I hope we we all understand theology is not merely about opinion or preference. Truth is exact and the only variable is my grasp of it. With that said, How do you think the Father feels about the erroneous beliefs that we tout as Divine truth? When we state opposing views in discussion, someone is wrong. When we refuse to investigate or expose our beliefs to examination is He angered when we stand on error? Or is He content to judge us only by our sincerity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tah Posted May 24, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,131 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/12/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2006 You ask huge questions in just a few words..How do you do that???? I have a partial answer for you.. this is one of my favorites, if there is such a thing... Phi 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Phi 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. That is my prayer... if I be "otherwise minded" He will show me the error of my ways..I count on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted May 24, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2006 You ask huge questions in just a few words..How do you do that???? I have a partial answer for you.. this is one of my favorites, if there is such a thing... Phi 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Phi 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. That is my prayer... if I be "otherwise minded" He will show me the error of my ways..I count on it... tah what an excellent answer pretty well sums in up OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted May 24, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Sorry, but there are times when God 'bends the rules' a little too, theologically. Remember Naaman the leper? "I will worship no God but the Lord, but when my master goes into the house of Rimmon, his god, he leans on me for support, so when he kneals before Rimmon, I must kneal with him. May the Lord forgive me this....." And the Prophet said to him: "Go in peace." And David was NOT killed for his adultery and murder. Yes God thinks our beliefs and theologies are IMPORTANT, but some things are clearly more important than others, and "God's Little Favorites" can get away with anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarletprayers Posted May 24, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 135 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,537 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 157 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/06/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/29/1956 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Sorry, but there are times when God 'bends the rules' a little too, theologically. Remember Naaman the leper? "I will worship no God but the Lord, but when my master goes into the house of Rimmon, his god, he leans on me for support, so when he kneals before Rimmon, I must kneal with him. May the Lord forgive me this....." And the Prophet said to him: "Go in peace." And David was NOT killed for his adultery and murder. Yes God thinks our beliefs and theologies are IMPORTANT, but some things are clearly more important than others, and "God's Little Favorites" can get away with anything! Leonard, I don't want to steal David's thread, but I'm rather surprised at this answer. Care to elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tah Posted May 24, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,131 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/12/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2006 I don't know Leonard..the loss of a child for my sin is pretty tough stuff...David did not "get away" with anything... I am not so familiar with Naamon except that he was a leper that God healed ..but if all he did was to be a support to someone who was worshipping another god and worshiped God only... then asked for forgiveness before he did it to and God said go in peace then , hey ,he was forgiven, ... he was not really bowing to the god the other guy was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted May 24, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2006 Sorry, but there are times when God 'bends the rules' a little too, theologically. Remember Naaman the leper? "I will worship no God but the Lord, but when my master goes into the house of Rimmon, his god, he leans on me for support, so when he kneals before Rimmon, I must kneal with him. May the Lord forgive me this....." And the Prophet said to him: "Go in peace." And David was NOT killed for his adultery and murder. Yes God thinks our beliefs and theologies are IMPORTANT, but some things are clearly more important than others, and "God's Little Favorites" can get away with anything! Naaman was a pagan captain in the army of the King of Aram, who was a leper: Now Naaman, captain of the army of the king of Aram, was a great man with his master, and highly respected, because by him the LORD had given victory to Aram. The man was also a valiant warrior, but he was a leper. 2 Kings 5:1 NASB In the course of battle, the Arameans took an Israelite child captive who told Naaman's wife about Elisha, and indicated that if Naaman could contact Elisha, God might heal him (2 Kings 5:2-3). Naaman had great favor in the King of Aram's eyes due to his valor, so the king sent a letter and money (along with Naaman) to the king of Israel with a request that the king of Israel cure Naaman (2 Kings 5:4-6). The king of Israel became frightened, because he knew he could not cure Naaman and he figured that because he could not comply, the King of Aram would kill him : And it came about when the king of Israel read the letter, that he tore his clothes and said, "Am I God, to kill and to make alive, that this man is sending word to me to cure a man of his leprosy? But consider now, and see how he is seeking a quarrel against me." 2 Kings 5:7 NASB When Elisha overheard that the king was despondent (tore his robes), Elisha instructed the king to bring Naaman, so that Namaan would: know that there is a prophet in Israel 2 Kings 5:8 NASB Naaman came with his army (a show of force) and stood in Elisha's doorway (intimidation). Elisha did not come out, but simply sent word out to Naaman to go and "wash in the Jordan seven times" (2 Kings 5:9-10). This made Naaman angry, and he left stating that the Abanah and Pharpar rivers in Damascus were just as good as the Jordan. (2 Kings 5:11-12) Naaman's servants appealed to his logic, stating that if Elisha had told him to do something very difficult, he would have done it readily. Naaman relented and washed in the Jordan as instructed and was healed of leprosy (2 Kings 5:13-14) Naaman returned to Elisha and confessed that the only real God dwelled in Israel: Behold now, I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel; so please take a present from your servant now. 2 Kings 5:15 NASB Elisha refused the offer of the gift, understanding that if he accepted it, Naaman would believe he had merited the gift of healing by purchasing it. (2 Kings 5:16) Namaan then requested "2 mule-loads of earth" so that he could take it home and use it to worship "no God but Yahweh". But he also explained that as part of his job as commander of the Kings army, he would be required to enter into the temple of Rimmon with the king and bow. (2 Kings 5:17-18). It is intgeresting to note that when he entered the temple, the king would be "leaning on his (Naaman's) hand." One of the requirements of being in the presence of royalty was that the head of the subjects could never be above that of the king. Namaan's bowing was not to worship the idol Rimmon. It was to obey the law that said a servants head must always be below the king's. Elisha assured him that God understood his predicament and that he could leave in peace. (2 Kings 5:18-19). When Naaman departed, one of Elisha's servants (Gehazi) followed him and lied stating that 2 "sons of the prophets' needed some of the money Naaman had offered to Elisha. (2 Kings 5:20-24) Elisha confronted Gehazi and Naaman's leprosy was given to him. Some thoughts: 1. Naaman was a pagan. He was not subject to the laws given to Israel regarding idol worship 2. God was trying to communicate some things about his nature by healing Naaman. Clearly His power over idols and His grace were 2 of the things He was trying to communicate. 3. Naaman understood the power (he was a power guy), but had difficulty with the grace aspect. That is why Elisha refused payment, and why Gehazi was punished so severely. Gehazi's action communicated something about God that was not so. It was in a sense a form of idolatry. 4. Naaman's bowing in the temple was not in worship, but was a result of his escorting the king (for protection) into the temple. Naaman;s worship occured at the dirt he brought back from Israel. There is no double standard here. The real lesson is that some things that seem on the surface to be idolatrous are not so, and other things that seem reasonable are idolatrous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted May 24, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Leonard, I don't want to steal David's thread, but I'm rather surprised at this answer. Care to elaborate? Elaborate on what in particular? "God's favorites?" If so, I'll bring up a few anomalies that I just don't get. But do you want to start another thread, or just get a PM. Mostly I was just being ironic..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giaour Posted May 24, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 179 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,941 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/28/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1964 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Exodus 33 17. And the Lord said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name. 18. And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory. 19. And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David from New Bern Posted May 24, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 527 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/21/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1964 Author Share Posted May 24, 2006 I hope no one here believes in relativism. I hope we we all understand theology is not merely about opinion or preference. Truth is exact and the only variable is my grasp of it. With that said, How do you think the Father feels about the erroneous beliefs that we tout as Divine truth? When we state opposing views in discussion, someone is wrong. When we refuse to investigate or expose our beliefs to examination is He angered when we stand on error? Or is He content to judge us only by our sincerity? This is a tough question David. I agree with you that truth is exact. The problem is that I think there are many who have investigated their views in light of scripture and still come to diametrically different opinions. I think that most of us believe we have the truth or we wouldn't be arguing that our positions are correct. I have no doubt you believe in your heart that the gifts of the Spirit are not in operation in the church today and I completely disagree. I feel confident that we have both sought for truth on this matter yet disagree. The same can be said of the OSAS doctrine and several other views. I know we cannot both be right, but I don't know how God views our errors. What if you are right on some positions and I am on others therefore we are both found to be off in the sight of God? What is the answer? Do we all just keep our mouths shut and instead of discussing different views, simply speak the Bible and stop at that? That brings up yet another controversy, which Bible version do we speak from? Bottom line is that if God wanted us to be in perfect unity of doctrine and wanted his church to have all truth we would have it. I believe it is his will that we not know it all so we will continually seek him all of our days. As we do, hopefully we will be teachable when it comes to accepting the guidance of the Holy Spirit and grow in truth. Missed you brother...For some reason we haven't been traveling the same threads recently...You know what?...I don't disagree with you....I do agree the gifts are in operation in the church, I just don't believe the sign gifts are happening as frequently as you do or as necessary as you do...You are amazing Butero, you just about fit all the hot topics in your response, but yur forgot women wearing dresses As I always love talking to you and enjoying our fellowship and proving that the love of God is what creates the fellowship not our sameness on issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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