apothanein kerdos Posted June 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2006 There is a difference in exposing a false doctrine and having an over-obssesion with a cause. It is better to explain why a certain belief is wrong than to harp on and on about certain people. WHy do you think the Gospel of John, along with the epistles, come out and contradict the entire teachings of Gnosticism than attacking specific leaders in the movement? It is because it's better to teach people to think about a belief so they can recognize it when they see it than to teach them what to think about a certain individual. Benny Hinn is wrong not because he is Benny Hinn but because of what he believes and teaches. So attack what he believes and teaches and please, save us the time of going on and on about a person when it's not going to do a bit of good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie Posted June 18, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,026 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/13/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2006 There is a difference in exposing a false doctrine and having an over-obssesion with a cause. It is better to explain why a certain belief is wrong than to harp on and on about certain people. WHy do you think the Gospel of John, along with the epistles, come out and contradict the entire teachings of Gnosticism than attacking specific leaders in the movement? It is because it's better to teach people to think about a belief so they can recognize it when they see it than to teach them what to think about a certain individual. Benny Hinn is wrong not because he is Benny Hinn but because of what he believes and teaches. So attack what he believes and teaches and please, save us the time of going on and on about a person when it's not going to do a bit of good. Hey, I didn't start the topic. There seems to be some confusion as to what attacking someone in a personal sense is, as opposed to exposing them as fale teachers. Personally I'm not obsessed with Hinn or any of the rest of the false teachers out there, but this is a discussion forum and the topic did come up, right? I'm sure if someone said "here is the Hinn doctrine, and this is why it's wrong" it would be considered as slander or gossip or whatever. At any rate, have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted June 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.87 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2006 all i was saying, is be careful about how you try to "EXPOSE" one that is doing Gods work. There is no need to "expose" anyone for doing Gods work Mike, this is about those who work for satan and use the Lords name to fool the masses. You seem to have the wrong idea of what a fasle teacher is. Your sympathy seems to be with the false teachers instead of the unsuspecting victims of their heresy. You have to understand what these workers of evil represent and the damage they do to the body of Christ before you can understand the heart of those who expose them. Would you warn your neighbors if a vicious dog was in your neighborhood killing the children?A false teacher is the same, in a spiritual sense. It is biblical to expose them, and nobody here is "gossiping". If possible we need to pull the weeds instead of water them. no, I would bind the dog (capture, imprison, take down, and if required shoot).... why should i stand and just tell the neighbors that the dog is killing the children, " oh, how terrible it is that dog is eating the kids, oh me or my what to do....." mean while the kids are being gobbled up... why should i just sit there talking about how terrible it is that so and so is selling drugs to the neighborhood children, goodness, how terrible it is, must beware of him for he is selling drugs.... BIND THEM, have them arrested, tried, convicted and sentenced... about the false teachers, preachers, prophets, do it in the right mode. that is all that is being said, have the biblical methods been carried out? I am not protecting them, nor am i defending them, ensure that what is being done is being done in accordance with the Word, which is also with ones own heart in the right place. what i was saying is it seems that it is carried way beyond a rebuke, when i have no clue as to whether an honest rebuke was ever performed. who knows where these mens hearts are? God knows, do you? they may feel they are doing everything one hundred and ten percent right, has anyone really, honestly, truely aproached them with the Word of God and shown them where they have strayed? I have not, I do know that Gods Word gives us direction for handling such situations. and if they have not been followed the persons that are involved do have to answer for their actions, or inactions, just as I do for what I do and dont do..... I am not turning a blind eye towards them, for I do not know of, nor have I seen or heard of anything other then what was posted, and there has not been any reply fromthem.... even with the US consitution, they have the right to defend themselves and to face their accusors... all i am saying is becareful of how this is handled. this is still gossip, for nothing has been done to reverse, or stop the problem, just talk about it... just for kicks..... let us start digging in to each of our lifes.... I will start.... and even volunteer some info.. I have done enough things in my life to be locked up for well over 200 years, and that is just from one type of offence.... Thank God that He sent His Son that I might have life because of His death...and ressurection.... and if a person continues to dig, i am sure that there are many more years that could be added to the 200 with out much problem.... aside from this, I retired from the USN with full honors, and total good conduct while i was in ( I wear gold and silver insignias, not red and white ) have i lead a totally un-sinful life? NO, i have not, but thanks to the Grace of God i do not have any fear of the penalties of the Laws... have I been admonished? yes, some through the biblical ways, and others through not so biblical means. when some one brings something to me and says, i am messing up, i stand up and look at what is being said... sometimes there is nothing more then a mis-communications between me and them, when there was no offense intended, nor directed, but what was said was taken the wrong way, if they had not broght it to me, they would still be offended and angry and bitter and that eats on them like cancer... if i was in the wrong, i will appolgize and repent from it and ask forgiveness of that person. now, once that is done it is up to them to forgive or not. i am done and can move on with a clean slate, even if they do not forgive me of the sin. IF i see some one steping over the line, i place myself in check first, and then will see why it offends me and alot of the time it does, cause i have the same problem.... I am not perfect, never have been, never have claimed to be and never will be on this earth. and no one else will be either... we have to be careful about how we handle situations, and the condition of our heart and what spirit we do it in..... thats all..... good day... mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rober H Posted June 18, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 331 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1949 Share Posted June 18, 2006 Benny Hinn is just one man. TBN supports him and endorses him. Remember the focus of this thread is about those who dare to expose error are being labeled as "hypocrites, heresey hunters, neo-pharisees" and more. Paul Crouch and others curse anyone who dares question the doctrines and the methods they use for getting money from their viewers. It isn't just Benny Hinn. Even the men that are basically sound in their doctrine and practices that have programs on TBN turn a blind eye and keep silent about what is going on. All it takes for corruption to continue is for men who see heresey and evil practices to say and do nothing. Look at what is happening in this forum. The people who want to discuss and point out doctrinal error are said to be "gloating" and being "gossips". The issues in this thread are what is important. If a person finds this thread so distasteful that they don't want to read it there are plenty of other threads they can go to. I would have to tear up half of my bible if exposing false prophets, teachers and hereticks was not important. I don't want to sin by keeping silent when I can plainly see that the church is being deceived and harmed by the practices of men who have the attention of a world wide group of Christians, non -believers and those who might be considering believing the gospel. James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. There is another method used to silence people from warning the church about Christian public figures who are teaching false doctrines and leading thousands into apostacy and false doctrine. They will accuse us of being "obsessed" with them etc. The same under handed tactic is used when someone speaks out against homosexuality or same sex marriage. They are called "homophobic" or closet homosexuals or insecure about their masculinity etc. I am not falling for it. Was Paul over doing it and "harping"? Acts 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. Acts 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Acts 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Acts 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. Did Paul name names? 2 Timothy 2:17-18 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 1 Timothy 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme. 2 Timothy 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia. 2 Timothy 4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works: 2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. What about John did he harp? 1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. 3 John 1:9-10 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church. How about Jude did he point out evil and name names? Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. Paul literally begged the Brethren to "Mark and avoid" those who teach bad doctrine. That would be impossible without naming names! Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. What about "poor Judas"? Should we bring up that man's name anymore? After all he isn't here to defend himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie Posted June 18, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,026 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/13/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2006 Benny Hinn is just one man. TBN supports him and endorses him. Remember the focus of this thread is about those who dare to expose error are being labeled as "hypocrites, heresey hunters, neo-pharisees" and more. Paul Crouch and others curse anyone who dares question the doctrines and the methods they use for getting money from their viewers. It isn't just Benny Hinn. Even the men that are basically sound in their doctrine and practices that have programs on TBN turn a blind eye and keep silent about what is going on. All it takes for corruption to continue is for men who see heresey and evil practices to say and do nothing. Look at what is happening in this forum. The people who want to discuss and point out doctrinal error are said to be "gloating" and being "gossips". The issues in this thread are what is important. If a person finds this thread so distasteful that they don't want to read it there are plenty of other threads they can go to. I would have to tear up half of my bible if exposing false prophets, teachers and hereticks was not important. I don't want to sin by keeping silent when I can plainly see that the church is being deceived and harmed by the practices of men who have the attention of a world wide group of Christians, non -believers and those who might be considering believing the gospel. James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. There is another method used to silence people from warning the church about Christian public figures who are teaching false doctrines and leading thousands into apostacy and false doctrine. They will accuse us of being "obsessed" with them etc. The same under handed tactic is used when someone speaks out against homosexuality or same sex marriage. They are called "homophobic" or closet homosexuals or insecure about their masculinity etc. I am not falling for it. Was Paul over doing it and "harping"? Acts 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. Acts 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Acts 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Acts 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. Did Paul name names? 2 Timothy 2:17-18 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 1 Timothy 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme. 2 Timothy 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia. 2 Timothy 4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works: 2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. What about John did he harp? 1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. 3 John 1:9-10 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church. How about Jude did he point out evil and name names? Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. Paul literally begged the Brethren to "Mark and avoid" those who teach bad doctrine. That would be impossible without naming names! Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. What about "poor Judas"? Should we bring up that man's name anymore? After all he isn't here to defend himself. God should be ashamed of Himself for talking about those poor wolves like that. Thanks Robert for backing what you say up with scripture instead of posting out of human understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted June 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2006 *sigh* If you're going to name names, at least have enough integrity to do so when you respond to people on this thread. It's easy to talk about people behind their backs, but much harder when they are in the same room. To me, this is the true face of cowardice. There is another method used to silence people from warning the church about Christian public figures who are teaching false doctrines and leading thousands into apostacy and false doctrine. They will accuse us of being "obsessed" with them etc. The same under handed tactic is used when someone speaks out against homosexuality or same sex marriage. They are called "homophobic" or closet homosexuals or insecure about their masculinity etc. For one, I have spoken against Hinn's teachings moreso than you have. Secondly, I know more about his teachings and about him at a person than you ever will (my grandparents were friends with him). Third, I have studied far more false philosophies than you have and could even argue them against you better than you could argue for the truth. I don't say this to brag or to be arrogant, that is not my intention at all; I simply state this to point out that for you to lump me into this group shows that your accusation is baseless. Likewise, by trying to lump me in with them, you're only doing the tactic you are bashing. As to actually responding to your claim, there is such a thing as being overly obsessed with what someone says. Hinn and co. only effect a certain number of people, most of whom do not post here and thus you are preaching to the choir. Likewise, it is more important to address the issue rather than the people. As I showed previously, though names are mentioned in the Bible, the teaching is the main focus, not the teacher. The reason is it makes it easier to show the false doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rober H Posted June 19, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 331 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1949 Share Posted June 19, 2006 For one, I have spoken against Hinn's teachings moreso than you have. Secondly, I know more about his teachings and about him at a person than you ever will (my grandparents were friends with him). Third, I have studied far more false philosophies than you have and could even argue them against you better than you could argue for the truth. Well, more power to you. I would have never guessed you knew so much. Thank you for sharing. Now back to the topic... Paul thought it was extremely important to watch and warn the brethren and elders of the church about those who would spread false doctrine. I am sure he did for the benefit of people like myself who are a little slower than others. Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Acts 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Acts 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. Paul wept and warned the church for three years night and day. If Paul thought it was important to warn the church then. How much more now. No one I know of or know personally has been that dedicated to warning us about deception. There is a reason that TBN is one of the richest and most powerful ministries in the Christian and non-Christian world with millions of viewers and contributors world wide. These men and their books and teachings are very popular and have had a tremendous influence on the church. Benny Hinn's book "Good Morning Holy Spirit" was a bestseller for months. Someone is reading and supporting this man. His crusades are packed full every where he goes. His books sell like hot cakes. I personally know a group of women who travelled three hundred miles to see him and came back singing his praises. I know many Christians who have been deceived by TBN and led in to heresies such as the word faith doctrines. For those of us who wish to have a tad bit of knowledge of what the Word-Faith Movement is about and who is promoting it may I suggest this link? http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/wrdfaith.txt The following is a excerpt from the above link. The Word-Faith Teachers. This is the group that would seek to convince us that Jesus and His disciples were rich, that to be poor is a sin, to be sick is a sin, and that faith is a creative force that we can use to shape our world just like God supposedly created this world and universe that we live in through His "faith"! Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Paul Crouch, John Avanzini, Robert Tilton, Fred Price, and Benny Hinn (who at the time of this writing has authored the number 1 best selling Christian book in America, 'Good Morning, Holy Spirit') are just a few that spew out this theological vomit. This is a link to the main page containing the quotes teachings of men who frequent TBN the most popular "Christian" television station in the world. http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/word-faith.html Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted June 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2006 What a cop out. If you're going to attack me at least have the dignity to follow through when I respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rober H Posted June 19, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 331 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1949 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Leviticus 10:1-2 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD. Notice that Nadab and Abihu were named and they died for their error. The bible states that these things recorded in there Old Testament were written for our benefit. Paul writes concerning the things which happened to Israel are recorded for our admontition. 1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. All Through the Old Testament and the New Testament names are named and their errors pointed out. It is clear that today in order to mark and avoid those who promote error we need to do the same. The issue here is that those who wish to do be obedient to the scriptures are being called "Neo-Pharisees and Heresey Hunters". Paul Crouch and Benny Hinn have publically and on national television cursed those who wish to contend for the faith and sound doctrine. Benny Hinn declared that anyone who comes against his ministry will suffer and he claims that he is speaking with the authority of the Holy Spirit. This is fact. I would encourage those who "don't know" if these allegations are true to click on the following link and hear Hinn's curse for themselves. http://www.intotruth.org/wof/Hinn.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rober H Posted June 19, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 331 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1949 Share Posted June 19, 2006 apothanein kerdos, If you look back I addressed the issues people have brought up. I didn't take it hard when it was suggested that people that discuss these issues are "obsessed and unloving" even though my name wasn't specifically mentioned. I am not interested in making this an ego battle. I don't want this thread to be closed. Please continue to post your perspectives and your takes on this issue. In His service, Robert W Hurzeler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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