neo-pharisees

[BlindSeeker]

I see. Thank you.

With regard to the issue of naming names. If there were no naming of names how could the church be sufficiently warned?

With regard to TBN, I worked there for a long enough period to know what they're really about about. Take a look at their compound in Texas sometime and ask yourself if it's really all about spreading the gospel. It takes a pretty bold group of people to identify themselves directly with the angel of the gospel in Revelation.

Interesting. It must have been a real eye opener working for TBN.

I agree the church cannot be warned and protected if false doctrines and the wolves promoting them are not pointed out.

What is more important than what I think is what the bible says.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

It is impossible to mark them and avoid them without naming names and disputing their doctrines.

Amen.

[apothanein kerdos]

Could someone please help to summarize what the issues are in this thread. I'm having trouble following where there is a disagreement.

Or maybe there is no disagreement?

The problem is that attacking the person and not the doctrine is not a Biblical way to approach it. Likewise, there is such thing as too obessesed in exposing false doctrine. Such as, when someone comes along and says, "Hey, I agree, but you need to cool down a bit" and that person is then lumped in with Benny Hinn (as Robert did with me), it becomes too much...it becomes a witch hunt.

[jamie]

Could someone please help to summarize what the issues are in this thread. I'm having trouble following where there is a disagreement.

Or maybe there is no disagreement?

The problem is that attacking the person and not the doctrine is not a Biblical way to approach it. Likewise, there is such thing as too obessesed in exposing false doctrine. Such as, when someone comes along and says, "Hey, I agree, but you need to cool down a bit" and that person is then lumped in with Benny Hinn (as Robert did with me), it becomes too much...it becomes a witch hunt.

a.K....would you mind taking a paragraph or two and lay out the perfect example of how to expose a false teacher? I'm very serious, I would like to see it.

[apothanein kerdos]

Could someone please help to summarize what the issues are in this thread. I'm having trouble following where there is a disagreement.

Or maybe there is no disagreement?

The problem is that attacking the person and not the doctrine is not a Biblical way to approach it. Likewise, there is such thing as too obessesed in exposing false doctrine. Such as, when someone comes along and says, "Hey, I agree, but you need to cool down a bit" and that person is then lumped in with Benny Hinn (as Robert did with me), it becomes too much...it becomes a witch hunt.

a.K....would you mind taking a paragraph or two and lay out the perfect example of how to expose a false teacher? I'm very serious, I would like to see it.

Well you don't really need a paragraph, just an outline. Take Gnosticism as an example in this outline:

A) The Bible teaches that both the physical world and spirtual world are good (and fallen) and equal

B) Gnosticism teaches that the spiritual world is higher and the physical world is lower and inherently evil

C) This is wrong because it violates the Bible

D) John Doe happens to teach Gnostic doctrine, thus he should not be listened to

In other words, the emphasis is not put on the person. The emphasis there is on the person, the less likely he is to become a martyr. By putting the emphasis on the belief instead of the person, we are able to counter MULTIPLE false teachers rather than one or two at a time. Such as, right now everyone goes, "All TBN is wrong." The reason they do this is because they attack the people and then the beliefs. IF you attack the beliefs and then point out people who teach these beliefs, people begin to draw their own conclusions. Right now they know Benny Hinn is bad. Wonderful. So someone comes along who is a watered down version and teaches the same junk and it's back to square one. If you, however, teach that the doctrine of Benny Hinn is bad, then the person learning can pinpoint in the future when that teaching arises and avoid it all together. This is what the Bible does. It only mentions people and their wrong doings because the rest of the Bible has already stated that the actions on these beliefs are wrong (and the beliefs themselves). Does that make sense as to where I'm comming from now?

[Kabowd]

Could someone please help to summarize what the issues are in this thread. I'm having trouble following where there is a disagreement.

Or maybe there is no disagreement?

The problem is that attacking the person and not the doctrine is not a Biblical way to approach it. Likewise, there is such thing as too obessesed in exposing false doctrine. Such as, when someone comes along and says, "Hey, I agree, but you need to cool down a bit" and that person is then lumped in with Benny Hinn (as Robert did with me), it becomes too much...it becomes a witch hunt.

a.K....would you mind taking a paragraph or two and lay out the perfect example of how to expose a false teacher? I'm very serious, I would like to see it.

Well you don't really need a paragraph, just an outline. Take Gnosticism as an example in this outline:

A) The Bible teaches that both the physical world and spirtual world are good (and fallen) and equal

B) Gnosticism teaches that the spiritual world is higher and the physical world is lower and inherently evil

C) This is wrong because it violates the Bible

D) John Doe happens to teach Gnostic doctrine, thus he should not be listened to

In other words, the emphasis is not put on the person. The emphasis there is on the person, the less likely he is to become a martyr. By putting the emphasis on the belief instead of the person, we are able to counter MULTIPLE false teachers rather than one or two at a time. Such as, right now everyone goes, "All TBN is wrong." The reason they do this is because they attack the people and then the beliefs. IF you attack the beliefs and then point out people who teach these beliefs, people begin to draw their own conclusions. Right now they know Benny Hinn is bad. Wonderful. So someone comes along who is a watered down version and teaches the same junk and it's back to square one. If you, however, teach that the doctrine of Benny Hinn is bad, then the person learning can pinpoint in the future when that teaching arises and avoid it all together. This is what the Bible does. It only mentions people and their wrong doings because the rest of the Bible has already stated that the actions on these beliefs are wrong (and the beliefs themselves). Does that make sense as to where I'm comming from now?

I could not agree with you more. I also agree with your witch hunt statement earlier.

[Rober H]

We need to warn the sheep about wolves. Paul Crouch has been named and quoted in this thread he is basically the person who runs TBN.

Nothing happens on TBN without his say so and the men who are on that program keep silent about the blatant "word faith teachings" and vile methods used by TBN to raise money are giving support to these doctrines by silence. They are not warning the sheep about Paul Crouch, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, John Avanzini, and dozens of others.

We are to mark men and you cannot do that without naming their names and avoid them which is impossible to do without knowing who they are. We are to both expose the error and the one's promoting them.

Romans 16:17-18 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

We are to preach against false teachers.

Here is a website dedicated to warning the church about false doctrine and who promotes it. Almost all of these men and women(maybe all of them) have been on TBN

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/word-faith.html

Go directly to these exposes:

John Bevere, Markus Bishop, Juanita Bynum, Morris Cerullo, Kim Clement, Kenneth Copeland, Paul Crouch, Creflo Dollar, Jesse Duplantis, Kenneth Hagin, Marilyn Hickey, Benny Hinn, Rodney Howard-Browne, T.D. Jakes, Bishop Eddie L. Long, Joyce Meyer, Miles Munroe, Steve Munsey, Mike Murdock, Joel Osteen, Rod Parsley, Peter Popoff, Fred Price, Oral Roberts, R.W. Shambach, Robert Schuller, Karl Strader, Robert Tilton, Paula White

Jesus warns us about wolves in general and to beware of them.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

The bible repeatedly names countless names and the errors these men promote and I have repeatedly provided scripture to prove it.

Benny Hinn is by far the biggest name on TBN and has the full support and endorsement of Paul and Jan Crouch.

With one word Paul Crouch can pull the plug on anyone who preaches against the "prosperity gospel" on TBN.

Richard J. Vincent, 1991

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/word-faith.html

"The Word-Faith Teachers. This is the group that would seek to convince us that Jesus and His disciples were rich, that to be poor is a sin, to be sick is a sin, and that faith is a creative force that we can use to shape our world just like God supposedly created this world and universe that we live in through His "faith"! Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Paul Crouch, John Avanzini, Robert Tilton, Fred Price, and Benny Hinn (who at the time of this writing has authored the number 1 best selling Christian book in America, 'Good Morning, Holy Spirit') are just a few that spew out this theological vomit." Copeland is one of the fathers of the Toronto/Brownsville "counterfeit" revival movement.

All one has to do is go back and read the replys in this thread to see that there are many people that are unaware of these teachings or find ways to excuse these teachers and their slimy heresies.

The scriptures are clear. We are to warn each other of false doctrines and the deceitful wolves who promote them.

I intend to both name the error and name the teachers that promote them .

2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

2 Timothy 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

[Rober H]

If those of us who wish to expose error are to be labled as "neo-pharisees" heresey hunters" or being on a "witch hunt" then so be it.

Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

The "prosperity gospel" versus the bible.

1 Timothy 6:6-11 But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

[apothanein kerdos]

*sigh*

Like a broken record...

[Kabowd]

Haha, wash, rinse, repeat, wash, rinse, repeat.

[apothanein kerdos]

*sigh*

Like a broken record...