Excellent Info. About Water Baptism...

[Guest baystreet424@yahoo.com]

Here is some excellent information about water baptism information about baptism.

"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45And all the circumcised believers who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles also. 46For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47"Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" 48And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days," (Acts 10:44-48).

Notice that Peter had been preaching the gospel and the Holy Spirit fell upon the people. In verse 45 we see that "the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles also." These people were saved. The gift of the Holy Spirit was on the Gentiles and they were speaking in tongues. This is significant because tongues is a gift given to believers, see 1 Cor. 14:1-5. Also, unbelievers don't praise God. They can't because praise to the true God is a deep spiritual matter that is foreign to the unsaved (1 Cor. 2:14). Therefore, the ones in Acts 10:44-48 who are speaking in tongues and praising God are definitely saved and they are saved before they are baptized. This simply isn't an exception. It is a reality.

Acts 2:38 so closely ties repentance and baptism because it is contextually covenant language and covenant concept. It is not stating that you must be baptized in order to be saved. It is saying that baptism is the complete and total covenantal identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection. It is not the covenant representation (baptism) of what Christ did that saves us, but the reality of His sacrifice which we receive by faith (Rom. 5:1; Gal. 3:8).

That is why we can see in Acts 10:44-48 a group of people who are saved before they are baptized.

Baptism is not what saves. It is not part of salvation. It is something someone does who is already saved.

Baptism is not necessary for salvation. It is the initiatory sign and seal into the covenant of grace. As circumcision referred to the cutting away of sin and to a change of heart (Deut. 10:16; 30:6; Jer. 4:4; 9:25,26; Ez. 44:7,9) baptism refers to the washing away of sin (Acts 2:38; 1 Pet. 3:21; Tit. 3:5) and to spiritual renewal (Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:11-12). The circumcision of the heart is signified by the circumcision of the flesh, that is, baptism (Col. 2:11-12).

One last thought: If someone maintains that baptism is necessary for salvation, is he adding a work, his own, to the finished work of Christ? If the answer is yes, then that person would be in terrible risk of not being saved. If the answer is no, then why is baptism maintained as being necessary the same way as the Jews maintained that works were necessary?

The conversation below is a good illustration of the need to know more than basic theology when discussing the issue of whether or not baptism is necessary for salvation.

Frank: What do you think of water baptism regeneration?

Matt: It is a false doctrine.

Frank: Still another meaning refers to the sacrament of baptism, which is a spiritual rather than bodily cleansing (Matt. 28:19, Rom. 6:3, 1 Pet. 3:21).

Matt: Correct. It is important, but it is not what saves us.

Frank: event from water baptism (see John 3:5, Acts 2:38, 19:2-3, 22:16, Rom. 6:3, Col. 2:11-12, Titus 3:5, and 1 Pet. 3:21 on the subject of baptism's graces). But something instructive can be learned about the mode of baptism and the meaning of the word 'baptizo' even if they insist on separating Spirit baptism from water baptism. Aren't they the same?

Matt: water baptism is a sacrament - a physical manifestation of a spiritual reality. Spirit baptism is an anointing, possession, movement of God on a person.

Frank: Isn't it essential for salvation? "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit," Acts 2:38; what about this? Acts 19:1-6 weren't they baptized immediately in this passage of scripture?

Matt: Do you believe baptism is necessary for salvation?

Frank: I don't know.

Matt: Have you got a Bible?

Frank: Yep.

Matt: Acts 10:44, They are baptized after receiving the holy spirit, right? It was after they speak in tongues and glorify God. Tongues is a gift for the church, for church members, for the saved

Edited July 8, 2006 by baystreet424@yahoo.com

[Isaiah-smiles]

I think Paul made it clear that Baptism was not essential to the accomplished work of Christ on the cross or to be "added" unto it. Baptism was to mark the person as a believer just as the Abrahamic covenant was marked by circumcism. If baptism was crucial to the regeneration of a person, then Paul would not have distinquished the gospel separate from baptism; "I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15. Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other (if baptism was crucial to regeneration, wouln't Paul have baptised all his converts??). 17. For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect." (1 Corinthians 1:14-17).

I am not trying to undermine the importance of baptism, because I believe it is the first command of the Lord to the believer as being the first act of obedience. For if we love Him we will obey Him. Then we identify before the local congregation on what has taken place within us. I believe this marks the "proper" way of baptism...Buried in the likeness of His death and then raised to walk in the newness of life.

Do not confuse the two. The gospel pertains to our salvation by which was accomplished by Christ work ALONE. Baptism is the call to obedience by the believer him/her self. The moment you begin to "add" what you do to the sole work of the Lord then you begin to preach a gospel of works. And THAT is wrong, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9. Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8,9)

I have noticed the contrast of "baptismal regeneration" and the capability of "losing your Salvation". In other words, what begins with adding man's deeds can easily as well end with man's deeds, it is no longer by grace.

[Isaiah-smiles]

Do not confuse the two. The gospel pertains to our salvation by which was accomplished by Christ work ALONE. Baptism is the call to obedience by the believer him/her self. The moment you begin to "add" what you do to the sole work of the Lord then you begin to preach a gospel of works.

Who commanded baptism God or man (Mk 16:16)? Is baptism a work of God or the work of man?

God commanded it. Then is it a command that needs to be performed by man in order to be saved? If so, how is that different from being "saved" through the Law. The Law of God is supposed to be like a mirror revealing that we are sinners, so that we may be directed towards the cross. Salvation is by the grace of God. Did Jesus perform baptisms. If it was essential to salvation, why didn't He perform baptism to the people who believed that He was the Messiah. He didn't baptise His own disciples. See, this is why I believe that baptism has no regenerative ability. It is separate from the work of Christ's atonement of us. Is baptism commanded of God? Yes. Are we to obey God? Absolutely! Is baptism crucial for a person to be saved? No, because then you return back to the Law. And man cannot be saved by his own performance. It is the work of God. We are baptised because of our love for Christ and that we want to identify ourselves with what Christ has done for us and Christ even said that if we truely love Him we'll obey Him.

Edited July 9, 2006 by Isaiah-smiles

[Isaiah-smiles]

Yes Jesus did command baptism - "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" just as Peter did, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Notice the underlined, faith is emphasized. Without faith you shall be damned. To be baptised is an obedient act on man's part after faith in the gospel. The person can actually receive the Holy Spirit before baptism; "While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45. And all the circumcised believers who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles also. 46. For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47. "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" 48. And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days," (Acts 10:44-48).

When a person receives the Holy Spirit before baptism, he is saved and sealed. "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." (Ephesians 1:13,14) Take note on the process in these (2) verses; They trust the gospel "of our salvation", and after they "believed" they were sealed with the Holy Spirit. That my friend is Salvation. No word of baptism. (Romans 8) says that if a man has not the Spirit he doesn't have Christ. The indwelling presense of the Spirit is the guarintor of "the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession"

Both faith and baptism are acts we must engage in personally. Just as no one can

[Guest baystreet424@yahoo.com]

(8:28:03 AM)

[Guest baystreet424@yahoo.com]

Isaiah-smiles

Notice the underlined, faith is emphasized. Without faith you shall be damned. To be baptised is an obedient act on man's part after faith in the gospel.

You are trying to force Holy Writ to comply with your own sectarian doctrine. You make your case on the point that Jesus did not say, "He that believeth NOT and is NOT baptized shall be condemned" but you completely miss the implied message of His words

Edited July 11, 2006 by baystreet424@yahoo.com

[Isaiah-smiles]

Do you agree that both belief and baptism are important in that they are both "works of God" and as such they are acts to be obeyed as commanded by Jesus?

I want to define "works". I believe that Baptism "came" from God in the sense of Him commanding us to be Baptised, but God is not Baptised in our stead. It is not God who is dunked under water and is raised again. "Works" is the act or performance of the one who is being Baptised. I am saved due to the fact that it was Christ who was nailed to the cross on my behalf, He performed that work or act. When I place my faith/trust in His work on the cross, I am saved. THEN, I perform the act or "work" of being dunked under water in obedience to His command in order to show outwardly, what Christ has done on my behalf.

Now to answer your question; "faith" in and of itself does not save you, it actually has to be faith in the Gospel (what Christ done on our behalf) that saves us. And yes, that is VERY important! And I do believe that Baptism "came" from God and it is important for us to obey, but, I am the one that goes forth and performs the act of being Baptised, it is "my work" of obedience. If I'm to believe that the "gospel + Baptism=Salvation" then that is a salvation of works rather than faith alone in the work of Christ. Essentially it would be saying "Christ's work+my work=Salvation".

Do you agree that Jesus taught that both "belief" and "baptism" come before "shall be saved"? If not why not?

"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Acts 2:21)

"And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; 14. Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15. And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18. When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." (Acts 11:13-18)

"Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30. And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31. And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. 34. And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house." (Acts 16:29-34)

"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." (Romans 5:8,9)

"But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9. That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed." (Romans 10:8-11)

"For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." (1 Corinthians 1:17,18)

"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

"But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7. That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9. Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:4-9)

"Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 9. Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10. But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:" (2 Timothy 1:8-10)

Now to answer your 2nd question; No. Do you notice that "be ye baptised" is missing in all the scriptures that I presented?! That is because, in order to be SAVED, the emphasis is on the GOSPEL (the work of Christ alone), not baptism (man's work through obedience).

[Isaiah-smiles]

The Bible provides a pattern of salvation that includes

[Isaiah-smiles]

horizoneast,

In conclusion; If we can't come to an agreement on this then this will be my last comment to you on this particular topic, because, you will not convince me otherwise. I believe that it is good to try and "reason" with each other, but, if no one is convinced then it is just best to agree to disagree on this topic. God will reveal the truth of the matter in the end.

[Guest kat2251]

this is sooo true.