Going To Church.

[Guest dove2]

I've done it both ways as I'm sure many of you have. But I have to tell you, I LOVE church!! I do!! I look forward to going. I love the singing and the preaching and the teaching and the fellowship!! I certainly have not always felt this way. But whether we go to church, as in a big building, or not, we DO need to fellowship and meet with fellow Christians to share the word and love, don't you think? I mean, God made us to co-exist with each other. He didn't mean for us to be loners. By attending church or meeting in homes to worship we are meeting many needs, physically, spiritually and mentally.

At least that's my opinion. I stay fresher in spirit when I share my love of Christ with others.

Amen Trav. I agree that we should have fellowship. When I say we I am always including Gary and he is the we. Where two or three are gathered Jesus is in our midst. Amen. I like to have a lot more to fellowship with though.

[Catsmeow]

We cannot forget that many brothers and sisters are suffering from disabilities or are bedridden and unable to attend. I was homebound for a year because my mother was bedridden and I was the "caregiver".

The "church" folks knew I was always stuck at home but NOT ONE ever volunteered to "sit" with my mom so I could go to church.

It's not about "attending" church. It's about glorifying God. That's TRUE worship.

If you really want to make a joyful noise unto the Lord...it isn't about making racket at church...it's the quiet self-sacrifice you make when you "sit in" for a homebound caregiver who can never get to church.

That's real worship, IMO.

[traveller]

You're right cats. Worship is how we live our lives, not what we do in church. I was not implying otherwise. All I was saying was that I love going.

[RCruise]

We cannot forget that many brothers and sisters are suffering from disabilities or are bedridden and unable to attend. I was homebound for a year because my mother was bedridden and I was the "caregiver".

The "church" folks knew I was always stuck at home but NOT ONE ever volunteered to "sit" with my mom so I could go to church.

It's not about "attending" church. It's about glorifying God. That's TRUE worship.

If you really want to make a joyful noise unto the Lord...it isn't about making racket at church...it's the quiet self-sacrifice you make when you "sit in" for a homebound caregiver who can never get to church.

That's real worship, IMO.

Hi Sis Cat,

Unfortunately, that is one of the pitfalls of the "corporate church" mentality. I have often asked in several different churches I have attended in the past what happened to "so'n-so?" Hardly ever get a knowledgable response. Then I asked if anyone knew their address or phone number so we could gather a few to go visit. Sometimes, it is they just didn't like the church and chose to go elsewhere but, more times than not it was due to some event (both tragic and trivial) that prevented their return.

The worst thing a "church" can do is to not go with loving care to those who suddenly stop coming. I know of several instances where some felt offended by one or several persons in the church or felt unwelcomed after a few visits. In our "Home Church" counseling, my wife and I stress the importance of visitation, frequent visitation. Wouldn't it have been great during that time if many from your church took turns coming in small groups to your home at least once or twice a week to pray with you, fellowship and study and, give encouragement and caring support? That is what Jesus preached. Many just can't seem to see those Words of His though.

[RCruise]

Just one additional note. Food for thought if you will.....

A flock will follow and emulate the example before it. If the Pastoral leadership do not do these things and do not teach both in word and deed, the flock will not do so either as a general consensus. Oh there will always be a few in some churches who are led of the Holy Ghost to minister outside the bounds of what is taught and follow the Word in emulating Christ but, they are rare and few.

[traveller]

Cats! I'm sorry, I sound harsh in my previous post but I was just in a hurry!

For a long time I was not able to go to church. Long story. But I met with some Christians in a woman's home on Tuesday nights. I loved that! A pastor from a local church gave bible study and we'd have a Q&A session afterward, then refreshments!! That was a REALLY good part!! Anyway, I developed some close friendships there which helped a lot in the coming years.

And yes, RCruise. The flock does follow the leader. I too think that checking on those that stop coming is important. Cats, your church should have been there for you. That's part of what a church is. Or should be anyways.

[mobile21]

Christ Himself went to Church.

I rest my case.

[ColleenLovesMischief]

I was out of church for a long time and I don't think it made me any less a Christian.........although I know the bible instructs us to fellowship together.

[nebula]

Christ Himself went to Church.

I rest my case.

Actually, he went to Synogogue and Temple. The things that went on there are not the same as what we do now that we call "church."

Hint: Roman Catholic Mass way back when was modled after the way the Romans worshiped in their Temples, not after the ways the Jews worshiped in their Synogogues and in the Temple.

[Guest cali]

Wow has this topic brought much controversy, which church is right, which to go to, how to behave, or act, how much should I give, or take, who should I confess to, or deny? First if you should weight the truth against tradition. if you bow down to any graven image, you are fornicating against God. If you hold any other person on earth as an authority to forgive sins other than God through JesusChrist, you are fornicating against God, if you or any (denomination) preach any other gospel other than the one Given through Jesus or preach by the Apostles, you are fornicating against God, if you teach that there are many ways to salvation, or that Jesus is not the only way, then you are fornicating against God. If you make stumblingblocks for people to be saved, and make grievious rules which are not required to be saved then you are fornicating against God and are a false teacher. the bible is very clear as to what is needed to be saved. So lets see what Jesus had to say to those who were keep people from heaven by making oppressive, heavy rules.

Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay [them] on men's shoulders; but they [themselves] will not move them with one of their fingers.

Mat 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

Mat 23:6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

Mat 23:7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren.

Mat 23:9 And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, [even] Christ.

Mat 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Mat 23:16 Woe unto you, [ye] blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

Mat 23:17 [Ye] fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

Mat 23:18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

Mat 23:19 [Ye] fools and blind: for whether [is] greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

Mat 23:20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

Mat 23:21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.

Mat 23:22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Mat 23:24 [Ye] blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

Mat 23:26 [Thou] blind Pharisee, cleanse first that [which is] within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead [men's] bones, and of all uncleanness.

Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

Mat 23:33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city to city:

Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Wow did the Master have a lot to say to this snakes. They were making rules which not even they would follow.

Now if you define Church as a building where you go and worship, then you must read what the Bible defines as Church, Because it is the followers of Jesuschrist which is the true definition of the Body of Christ or the Bride to be more clarified, it is not a building or statue or some other so called deity. Think about it this way, when you stand before God, Who are you gonna say you are? Who do you follow, do you follow tradition? Do you follow or are loyal to a certain denomination or do you follow Christ? There is only one way to Heaven and that is Jesuschrist, there is no other Name by which we can be saved, and only through Faith by Grace, not by our works, so none can boast.

Look at all the denominations that are throughout the world, each claiming to be the path to salvation, each claiming to understand the scriptures, and each adding rulings or changings the very words of scriptures. They are all divided against themselves, for a piece of the pie, but yet none can hold weight for only Jesuschrist is the way, and we are to gathered in his Name, it does not matter where, at what time or day, just that we do it in his Name and with faith, and that is all that is warranted to be saved and to be called his Church or Called Out. When Jesuschrist Died and Resurrected he destroyed the veil and now all men needs is, to repent and be faithful.

No more interpret this or that for me, no more holding to traditions of men or the heavy yoke they put on us, all we have to do is ask and the Holy Spirit will lead the way. there is only one and that is Jesuschrist. now i'm not saying that is wrong to go to a building to gather with others to worship, just don't state that your church is the way or the truth, for only JesusChrist can hold that Title. if you believe in all that Jesuschrist said and in him, and believe in him, then you are part of the True Church which is composed of all believers, (living or dead) in the Bride of Christ. in the Lord or Bride of christ there are no divisions, we are all one Body with diffrent functionalities, but all serving one purpose, The pleasure of the Almighty.

Luk 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house [divided] against a house falleth.

Luk 12:54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.

Luk 12:55 And when [ye see] the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass.

Luk 12:56 [Ye] hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?

How to discern, well if you want to make a cake, you first must have the recipe, do you have a Bible? Do you read it? do you ask God, for the Holy spirit to guide you? Most of the Bible cannot be understood by fleshly eyes, the mysteries unravel to the born again spirit. the parts dealing with salvation are understood by anybody, but only the Holy Spirit can decipher the more profound scripture, in other words, you must be born again. That is why people that don't believe or follow Christ cannot make anything of the Bible, to them is shut up.

1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

1Co 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

1Co 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

Again the above verses are speaking about division and denominations, and is asking if Christ is divided.

Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Do you need to go to a certain building, denomination or hold to a certain tradition in order for Jesus to be there, the above verse answers the questions, with no if's, and's or but's.

Mat 22:34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.

Mat 22:35 Then one of them, [which was] a lawyer, asked [him a question], tempting him, and saying,

Mat 22:36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

In the above verses Jesuschrist made the Law very clear and not heavy any more. And look who's trying to frame Jesuschrist, none other than a Lawyer.

Mat 22:41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,

Mat 22:42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, [The Son] of David.

Mat 22:43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Mat 22:45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

Mat 22:46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any [man] from that day forth ask him any more [questions].

In the above verses, Again we read what awesome power the God we serve has. his mouth like a two edge sword, destroys the Pharisees argument.

Mat 8:6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.

Mat 8:7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.

Mat 8:8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.

Mat 8:9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this [man], Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth [it].

Mat 8:10 When Jesus heard [it], he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

In the above verses Jesus gives an example of what faith is. Being humble and not proud and recognizing that we are not worthy, but by grace through Christ are we Saved.

Mat 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this [which is done] to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

Again in the above verse another example of the qualities of having Faith. Being brave and not doubting the outcome.

Below we are taught what matters in the Law, ( Judgement, Mercy, Faith). So instead of making traditions with don't hold weight with God, and making rules which have nothing to do with salvation, we should be weightin in in things which brings us closer to God.

1. Judgement = We are all sinners, and in need of redemption.

2. Mercy = JesusChrist has paid for us, through the grace of God.

3. Faith = If you believe in God's mercy which is through Jesuschrist the Son of God and that he died and ressurected in the flesh and that you are saved indeed then it shall be.

People that is all you need, the rest is just icing on the cake!

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

And cali starts singing! Come on everybody! What do you need?!!!

Mar 10:52 And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.

Mar 11:20 And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.

Mar 11:21 And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.

Mar 11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.

Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them].

Luk 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luk 8:25 And he said unto them, Where is your faith? And they being afraid wondered, saying one to another, What manner of man is this! for he commandeth even the winds and water, and they obey him.

Luk 8:48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.

Luk 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

Act 6:7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

So people no matter what anybody does by works to gain acceptance from God, you could be a rich man, mother theresa, gandhi, the pope. nobody is holier than anybody else, we are all under the curse, and all equally guilty, and in need of redemption. Can you praise God without speaking a Word? Can you Roll the Heavens up into a single Word? Can you sing Word by Word the praise of the Allmighty? Can you by Word bring down a Mountain? Rejoice for compassion and mercy are knocking at your door.!

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Rom 3:26 To declare, [i say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Rom 3:27 Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law [be] heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

So if I could summarize the whole Bible and The Word of God in One sentence......

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

If you believe man over God then you have a problem, if you believe in evolution (which is only a theory) or any other manmade stuff, whether real or imagined, over the Word of God then you in fact are saying that men not God is more powerful. We have to believe by Faith, and faith requires believing in things which cannot be seen, the invisible things, and Godhead of the Allmighty, Faith does not require evidence or prove, for in faith are we made whole, seen the visible and recognizing the invisible. the visible in the flesh, and the invisible in the spirit. Without Faith is impossible to serve God. A servant does not argue or reprove or demands, but follows and believes if his master is fair.

1Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

We are one big family or Bride for Christ, all you need is Faith.!!

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all [men], especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Nothing you do can justify you in the Eyes of God, only and only through Christ can that be accomplished.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

So who should you follow to stay in the path, and who should your faith cornerstone should be?

Mat 4:19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.

Mat 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.

Mar 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Luk 9:23 And he said to [them] all, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Joh 1:43 The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me.

Don't worry about nothing else, who should be your attention?

Joh 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what [is that] to thee? follow thou me.

There is only way to heaven or eternal life, do you know him? For if you don't follow him then the only one left is the alternative, you are either with him or against him. If you entertain evil, it will cling to you like a cancer that only Jesus can cure, so at the alarm of evil, flee!!

Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

Again Jesus making it clear who the foundation stone is.!

Joh 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will [my] Father honour.

People making excuses not to save their soul.

Luk 9:59 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

Luk 9:61 And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house.

I just tought to throw in the following verses, and say that vengance and retribution is the Lords, if you don't forgive, don't expect forgiveness, no matter the deed either way. If you seek revenge or retribution, by your own words you shall be condemmed.

Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses. :il: