How can a God of love allow stoning as a death penalty ?

[redeemed098]

I am sad for your loss of hearing. The truth is that the ten commandments are what is used to govern the lives of Gods' chilidren. The ten commandments are a way for us to imitate the ultimate love that God has for us. If the atheist reading would please read the new testament you would see the love. I would suggest that you read 1 corinthians 13. I think this book and the book of mathew will show you a very different picture than the one you have created. I have looked at atheism before denying it. I tried atheism, and I was miserable. It wasn't for me, but often is the case that a square will not fit into a round hole. Also the ten commandments are not this "control freak god" way of controlling people. Just think about the commandments themselves.

Do not steal think, "would I want to be stolen from?"

Do not kill, "Would I want someone to kill me?"

Do not lie, "Would I want someone to lie to me?"

Do not commit adultry, "Would I want my wife to cheat on me?"

The list goes on.

If you have an open mind you will at least read them you are always free to choose the path that suites you.

Try this quote:

(Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all

[Arialia]

But it would get rid of the current evil. For a small time, life would be good. But of course, God doesn't want life to be good.

[EricH]

But it would get rid of the current evil. For a small time, life would be good. But of course, God doesn't want life to be good.

God does want life to be good. In fact we have a promist that everything that occures will work out for a result God can call good in our lives.

[EricH]

Sylvan,

Any response to the Ezekiel passage which you quoted out of context?

My response is that saying that something is being taken out of "context" is a frequent rationalization that I hear when a passage is presented that is not so flattering to the God being presented in the Bible.

The information that is in the passage is that people hear the "voice" of God telling them to kill without mercy. This killing without mercy includes, but is not limited to, children. It is a relevant quote when one considers the stark contrast to the "merciful" God that many would like to believe about the God of the Bible. I don't see where anything either prior to or after that quote mitigates what has been said. It is not just killing (bad enough) but the killing without mercy that is remarkable.

Did you read the passage in its context and see that it is a prophetic utterance by an angel showing Ezekiel things that must happen? I get the feeling you are not really interested in finding out what the text really says and are not open to using literary techniques that scholars use on all written works. You simply have you mind made up, and are willing to take things out of context to prove your point.

What is it about the Ezekiel passage that make you think it is not a prophecy?????

Read Ezekiel 6:1-2 which is the beginning of the oracle that extends into Ezekiel 10:

And the word of the LORD came to me saying, 2 "Son of man, set your face toward the mountains of Israel, and prophesy against them

Ezekiel 6:1-2 NASB

He then states the reasons for the terrible things that will befall Israel:

and say, 'Mountains of Israel, listen to the word of the Lord God! Thus says the Lord God to the mountains, the hills, the ravines and the valleys: "Behold, I Myself am going to bring a sword on you, and I will destroy your high places. 4 "So your altars will become desolate, and your incense altars will be smashed; and I shall make your slain fall in front of your idols.

Ezekiel 6:3-4 NASB

Now, I am open to hearing your view as to why my contention that this is a prophesy is incorrect. Please explain

[redeemed098]

But it would get rid of the current evil. For a small time, life would be good. But of course, God doesn't want life to be good.

If God doesnt want life to be good, then why does he forgive sin....??

Regards,

Ben.

[Arthur Durnan]

Aborticide, children, Aborticide, children,

It's just an Abortion-Mill away!

Life, dear children, Life, dear children,

If only YOU had a say!

Libertine people always favor abortion!

Arthur Durnan, 2006. Without Apology.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

"Pro-choice" is a lie,

Babies don't choose to die!

[pointer]

the depiction of the God of the Bible is one of human characteristics

Since we are made in his image, that is to be expected.

vengeful

Human justice for wrongdoing is universal, through courts of law, disciplinary procedures in workplace, home and school. It is not at all unreasonable that the Creator requires an accounting also.

he gets angry

The person who does not get angry when an atrocity is committed is probably a dangerous person to society, if not to him or her self. It is purely a matter of self-preservation and common sense that society be run without undue fear of attack on the person, or theft of property. If we believe that such things are acceptable for others, we cannot suppose that they are not to be judged acceptable for ourselves also.

The God of the Bible acts on behalf of those who choose order rather than chaos, prosperity rather than poverty, peace rather than violence, and he does so in the next world as well as this one. Those who in this life reject God and choose self interest at the expense of others can expect no mercy in the next one, and rightly so, in my judgement.

[Guest LadyC]

ok, here i go getting into another debate that leads nowhere. and this may actually sound for a moment like i'm sticking up for the athiests here, but honestly, their question is a very valid one.

yes, there are instances in scripture in which God commanded that even children be killed. one in particular (and i don't have time to look up the passage) was when God's people were entering into a war, and were commanded to kill even the livestock and the children. but God's people disobeyed Him, and took the livestock and the children into their own camp. and the result was pretty devastating.

but the thing is, God says "suffer the children to come unto me". He also says, and i ad-lib this, that it's a shame that adults don't have the innocense of mentality, the openness to the Holy Spirit, to accept God unquestioningly. young children who are still in that innocent state of mind that is not yet cognizant of good and evil will always be accepted by God. those who have reached the "age of reason" or "age of accountability" as some call it, which basically means they have surpassed that point where they openly accept the truth of the spirit without question.

so i have no reason to doubt that when God commanded that even the children of that war be killed, those who were still young enough to not question God's love would be at the gates of heaven to greet the rest of us who have accepted Him when we get there. the ones who were old enough to willingly reject Him, He had the foreknowledge to know that they would continue to reject Him. and He has that foreknowledge regarding every human being that ever lived.

the instance of that war is the only passage in which i can recall a direct order from God to kill children, and the command was not obeyed. as a result, the evil in their hearts (i.e. the total 100% absence of God in their hearts) infected the camp of believers and brought utter chaos.

this post has been edited to correct a couple of things i misworded.

[EricH]

Still awaiting your insights into the Ezekiel passage??

[sylvan3]

Sylvan,

Any response to the Ezekiel passage which you quoted out of context?

My response is that saying that something is being taken out of "context" is a frequent rationalization that I hear when a passage is presented that is not so flattering to the God being presented in the Bible.

The information that is in the passage is that people hear the "voice" of God telling them to kill without mercy. This killing without mercy includes, but is not limited to, children. It is a relevant quote when one considers the stark contrast to the "merciful" God that many would like to believe about the God of the Bible. I don't see where anything either prior to or after that quote mitigates what has been said. It is not just killing (bad enough) but the killing without mercy that is remarkable.

Did you read the passage in its context and see that it is a prophetic utterance by an angel showing Ezekiel things that must happen? I get the feeling you are not really interested in finding out what the text really says and are not open to using literary techniques that scholars use on all written works. You simply have you mind made up, and are willing to take things out of context to prove your point.

What is it about the Ezekiel passage that make you think it is not a prophecy?????

Read Ezekiel 6:1-2 which is the beginning of the oracle that extends into Ezekiel 10:

And the word of the LORD came to me saying, 2 "Son of man, set your face toward the mountains of Israel, and prophesy against them

Ezekiel 6:1-2 NASB

He then states the reasons for the terrible things that will befall Israel:

and say, 'Mountains of Israel, listen to the word of the Lord God! Thus says the Lord God to the mountains, the hills, the ravines and the valleys: "Behold, I Myself am going to bring a sword on you, and I will destroy your high places. 4 "So your altars will become desolate, and your incense altars will be smashed; and I shall make your slain fall in front of your idols.

Ezekiel 6:3-4 NASB

Now, I am open to hearing your view as to why my contention that this is a prophesy is incorrect. Please explain

Whether it is a prophecy or not is not relevant to me. I am questioning the character of God as it is presented in the Bible. There are major contradictions between a perfect, omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent deity and the anthropomorphic character that is presented in the Bible. As I have said previously, when one is faced with the decision as to whether this book is inspired by man or a perfect deity, the human influence is overwhelming. It plays like an animated movie created in Hollywood.

The Ezekiel verses were presented with that in mind. Do those verses sound like they are from a perfect deity or something that a human would make up? I see no need whatsoever to have it relate to a context in order to understand that point.

I believe that the Bible is a fairy tale. You may argue context issues as to whether its story requires context for understanding, but I will argue that it is a fairy tale nonetheless.