who may be the anti-christ?

[forgiven1]

Is it possible that anti- christ may be existing right now , that he may be preparing to make his grand entrance as the world's stages get set. I would like to hear others opinion on this

I think it's Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones! I mean....have you ever looked at that guy! Scarry!

[other one]

I really think that there a very few on this earth that are living according to what you just said. It is possible, but I doubt very few do. What about when you watch a scary movie; are you in fellowship with God? I do believe this is possible but there a many dealings we will have to go thru and we must desire to sumbit to those dealings; "take up your cross and follow Christ". Also just to clear something up with you; I never said we look FOR Jesus; I was quoting Scripture, which says, "we run this race looking TO Jesus". Read Heb 12:1,2.

Absolutely...... all the time. Sharing your life with Him is what we are supposed to do. That is what Jesus turned the Sabbath into..... a daily minute by minute walk with the Spirit of the Father. I think we have a difference of opinion of what fellowshipping with God is all about. If the movie (scary or not) is not something i could share in a spiritual conversation with the spirit, I get up and leave.

Jesus turned the Sabbath into something? Huh? When did the Sabbath change? Just for clarities sake I'm not speaking of the particular day, but of the Sabbath experience. Now in light of this, you are saying you are at rest when you are allowing fear to enter into your being? I'm am asking this question here, but it really can get split since it is veering from the subject or we can discuss in private if you desire.

Jesus spiritualized all the ten commandments by making them a sin still in the thought process...... hate your brother without cause and you're guilty of murder..... look upon a woman with lust and you are guilty of adultry.........

The sabbath was made for a rest for mankind, and that rest is now a complete day to day moment to moment walk with God and not just one day of not working....... No one I know keeps the sabbath anyway, at least not in the ten commandments way it was originally given...... but that rest is now available in a complete way of life every minute of every day of the rest of your life if you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and master and follow the leadings of the Holy Spirit that Jesus promised us would come.

That is what I mean, and you are correct if we need to discuss it further PM me as sabbath threads tend to get nasty here at worthey after about 20 pages and it's not worth the time to watch it get locked and deleted..... and we shouldn't take this thread on a detoure

[HAZARD]

Ok sir, I am confused as to what you have issue with. I pointed something out, and that was it. As I said at this point I can honestly care less who or what the antichrist is in his persona. If it is corporate man attempting to exhalt himself above God, or a single world leader, it does not matter. You say scripture CLEARLY show. If it was so clear then why the debate. The only thing sir that is clear is Jesus Christ and Him crucified. All other things are up for debate, which is so clearly seen just on this forum alone. Not saying that things should not be discussed, but as we search WITH the Saints Eph 3:18 will manifest; and the eyes of our understanding will be enlightened. But when the FOCUS is on such things as the antichrist a person tends to get lost in opinion and gross misinterpretations of the Word. Brother I say this from experience.

Dear 'ruck1b'

I have absolutly no issue with you, with this debate, whether you care or not about the coming antichrist. I did say "You do well to have your eyes focused on Christ." The reason we are debating this topic is because a question was asked. This does not suggest we are losing our focus on Christ? You say you have experience in this? We all have experience, and we are all on different levels of experience and so can share these experiences and knowledge gained by them. Understand that if a 30 year old says he has much experience, and a 60 year old says the same, who would have the most? A 30 year old studies Scripture for 15 years, a 60 year old studies Scripture for 45 years, hopefully more can be learnt in 45 years as compared to 15? Jesus taught us to "Search the Scriptures for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me" (John 5:39). The Scriptures testify of Jesus, as John 5:39 teaches. So, as I said, you do well to focus on Christ. Searching the Scriptures means all the scripture, not just those that focus on Jesus Himself, or what suits our own pet theories or ideas on a personal level. Many times our own personal thoughts on any subject are shot down by a simple search of the Scriptures on any given doctrin. Scripture does clearly show that the antichrist will be a mortal man, where he will rise from, who he will do battle with, and the fact that Jesus Himself will personally kill him.

If the coming future antichrist, who will be a "MAN," and his attempt to exault himself above God, and the future battle he will fight against Jesus Christ, and the fact that Jesus Himself will personally kill him, is of no consequense to you, then thats ok. You see, others may be interested in this coming event. And God had this entire future event, the coming antichrist, the cataclysmic battle against Jesus Christ, and his destruction, recorded in prophecy, in the book of Daniel, for us to read and forknow what is to happen, and not to just fill the Bible with words.

Once again sir you say the Scriptures are clear to say that the antichrist will be a (single-man). The scriptures also clearly say that the antichrist is here now. So according to what you are saying I could say that the antichrist (a single man) has been alive since the early Church. Clearly is often time only good in the eye of the beholder. As I said and I know we can agree on this. What is clear is Jesus Christ and Him crucfied. Just take a look at this forum alone. If things were so clear, why so many, "I dont agrees, and "that scripture does not say that". I'm not saying that Scripture is not clear, it is us who are not clear. Scriptures clearly does show who the antichrist is, but clearly it is seen many different ways by us.

Also your words are so beautiful. You quoted John 5:39, and added ALL SCRIPTURE. So anytime we see anything in the Scripture that shows what it not Christ it should still point me back to Christ. If God allows me to see something concerning the antichrist it should be because my focus is on Christ. I will then see how the antichrist is against Christ (because He is my focus) and in addition my focus on Him should increase.

Sir I have not problem with the question that was presented. But just as your very words testify "we do well to have our focus on Christ". In doing this what is contrary to Him will be seen.

Thank you for you responses.

Your brother.

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You have your take on this doctrin, no worries, but you ignore all these scriptures quoted below, which I have posted in an earelier post stating catagoricly that the Antichirst will be a mortal man. Now if you think these scriptures mean nothing, and are incorrect, then so be it. As you stated in an earlier post, "Who cares,?" Focus on Christ, and if you are doing this you must be correct, and I am wrong quoting Scripturess stating that the Antichrist is a man, and his number is 666, and these Scriptures are incorrect, then I suggest you get in touch with the Holy Spirit and tell Him to remove these Scriptures from the Bible?

According to Scripture, the Antichrist will be a MORTAL MAN, possibly living to-day, and if not some time in the near future, but a mortal man. That he will be a MAN is clear from Revelation 13:18, "it is the number of A MAN; and HIS number is six hundred and three score and six" (Rev. 13:18). That he will be a MORTAL MAN is clear from the fact that HE will be "slain" by Jesus Christ Himself at His second advent (Read Dan. 7:11; Isa. 11:4; 2 Thess. 2:7-8). If Jesus is going to slay HIM at His second advent, then HE must be a mortal MANat that time. This proves he is not a spirit being or a resurrected and immortal man from the dead. He is definatley not any Pope, any church, any group of people or kingdom, now or in the future.

Revelation 13:18, "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the num,ber of the beast: for it is the number of A MAN; and HIS number is Six hundred three score amnd six."

"The fourth beast" shall be the fourth kingdom upon the earth [from Daniel's time to Christ's coming] which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth....And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall arise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first [ten] and shall subdue three kings [of the ten, which are the other three divisions of Greece besides Syria, the one the Antichrist shall come from]" (Dan. 7:23-24), "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have recieved no kingdom as yet: but recieve power as kings one hour [period] with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them.

The Old Roman Empire is to be revived. So, in what form will she exist. There will never be a Revived Roman Empire as a single empire ruled by one man as in the Old Roman Empire, but there will be ten separate governments formed inside this territory, as the seventh head on the beast. This kingdom could best be called the Revised Roman Empire. Rome is to exist in the form of ten kingdoms in the last days before the revelation of both Christ and Antichrist. These kingdoms will still be in existence during the appearance of both and will be overthrown, first by Antichrist and then by Christ.

In Dan. 2:40-45 we have the first picture of Rome symbolized by two legs of iron and ten toes of iron and clay. Rome never has existed yet in the form of separate kingdoms, as symbolized by the ten toes, so in order for all the prophecy to be fulfilled it must exist as such. However Rome has existed as one kingdom, symbolized by the lower part of the body, where the legs are joined to the body. Then too, Rome has existed in the form of two divisions as symbolized by the two legs of iron, representing the eastern and western divisions of the empire. The time of the existence of the ten kingdoms is clearly stated in Dan.2:44-45 as being in the day that the God of Heaven sets up a kingdom. God has yet not set up His kingdom and will not do so untill the coming of His Son, Jesus Christ, who will reign forever (Isa.9:6, 7: Dan. 7:13-14; Rev. 11:15). This proves that the Roman Empire will again exist in a new form of ten kingdoms at the time of the second advent,which will succeed old Rome as Rome succeeded the first five heads (kingdoms) on the beast. The ten toes of the two feet on the two legs of Dan. 2:38-45 represent ten kingdoms from the eastern and western divisions of Rome, five from one and five from the other. The phrase "the kingdom" is used twice in Dan. 2:40-45 and shows the unity of the ten kingdoms in some kind of loose federation.

Dan. 7:7-27 shows that there will come out of Rome ten kingdoms which will exist at the same time as the above ten kings. The additional prophecy given here is that "another little horn," called "the beast" in Dan. 7:11, will arise "after them" and overthrow three others. This little horn will continue "untill the Ancient of days" comes, and judgment is given to the saints of the Most High, and the time arrives for the saints to possess the kingdom. This relates to the coming of Christ to destroy the Antichrist and the ten kings and set up His kingdom, and proves that these ten kings and the eleventh king will all exist at the time of the coming of Christ. The ten will give their kingdoms to the eleventh or the beast, and they together will destroy Mystery Babylon, or religion in the middle of the Week, and then three and one half years later, they will fight Christ at Armageddon (Rev. 17:12-17). This beast of Dan. 7:11 is to be slain like the one in Rev. 19:20. Thus we see that Rome is to revised and exist in the form of ten separate kingdoms.

Now, regarding the Extent of Antichrist's Reign (Rev. 13:5-18)(Dan.7:23).

The question often arises, "Will the Antichrist have power over all kindreds, tongues, and nations, and will all that dwell on Earth worship him?" While this can generally be answered in the affirmative, still much depends on what is meant by all. If all is used in the most inclusive sense and is meant to include every individual in the known world today, we can say that he will not have this power, but if it is taken to mean all that God has in mind-the latter day ten kingdoms of old Rome--we can say that all will include all affected by the decree made by the Antichrist in his empire.

The following points from scripture prove that the Antichrist will not rule America or be a world wide dictator as many students of prophecy teach.

1. The word all in Rev.13 is simply part of the figure of speach called "synecdoche" in which a part is used for a whole and a whole for a part. It is frequently used in scripture as in the following examples:

1."I even I do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherin is the breath of life, from under heaven; and EVERY THING that is in the earth shall die" (Gen.6:17). If we look at this literally as men do Rev.13, we would have Noah and his family and all the animals in the ark dead, for they were also under the Heaven and in the earth and yet did not die.

2. " And they utterly destroyed ALL THAT WERE IN THE CITY, both men and women" refering to the people in Jerico when the wall fell, but "all" here must be understood in a limited sense, for Rahab and all her people were spared (Josh. 6:21-25).

3. "David and ALL THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL played before the Lord" and brought up the ark" (2 Sam.6:5,15). yet not all Israel did this, for many did not know how to play instruments and many were too young and still many more were not even gathered at that one place.

4. "Six months did Joab remain there [out of his own country] with ALL ISRAEL untill he had cut off every male in Edom" (1 Kings 11:16,17). The "ALL ISRAEL" referred to here is part of the army of Israel.

5. In Rom.1:8 Paul said, "Your faith is spoken of throughout the WHOLE WORLD," but we know he meant only that the local church at Rome was known by many in the various parts of the Roman Empire. Multitudes outside of Rome, and even many inside the Empire of Rome had never yet heard of the Christian faith, much less of the local church at Rome. The same thing is true of Col. 1:23 where we read that the gospel had been "Preached to EVERY CREATURE UNDER HEAVEN" and in Rom. 10:18 it was preached "INTO ALL THE EARTH" and ''UNTO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD" The gospel has not even yet been taken to all nations, so we know the whole world was not evangelized in Paul's day.

6. In Acts 11:28 we read of a dearth [famin] "THROUGHOUT ALL THE WORLD" which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar. That famin did not cover every part of the Roman Empire much less all continents and islands of the world.

Many hundreds of examples can be given to demonstrate the word ALL is used in a figurative sense of a part, so we do not need to believe that Rev.13 and Dan.7:23 means that the Antichrist of the future will literally reign over all the earth and kill all who do not take his mark.

We must, therefore, understand the way the word "all" is supposed to be understood in a particular scripture. If it means ALL in the all inclusive sense then there will be no limitations to it in the passage itself or in other scriptures on the same subject. If it means ALL of what it has reference to specifically and it is clear that it means a part of something and this is made clear in the passage itself or in other passages on the same subject, then we must be sensible to recognize the fact that ALL is not inclusive of all men on earth. For example, when Paul said of God that it was His will that "ALL men come to the knowledge of the truth" (1Tim.2:24), we know that this means ALL MEN without exception. But when we read of ALL MEN being baptized of John and in the same passage and in other passages on the subject, it is made clear that many were not baptized, then we take it as a figurative statement expressing that a great many in the region were baptized of John. We can see in both Testaments that God used universal terms in speaking of the extent of certain kingdoms and the powers of certain kings. We can also see that these terms show that only a great part of the earth was ruled by these kings and empires. We can therefore logically conclude that the extent of Antichrists kingdom and power could likewise be limited to a part of the world. Because we can find a number of scriptures limiting his power and authority to a part of the Earth, and they plainly tell us what part of the Earth will be under him and what part will not be under him then we must limit the "ALL" of Rev.13 and Dan. 7:23 to what territory he rules over and not make it universal as many prophetical students do.

[Guest Cole]

I have heard people name the anti-christ from Barack Obama to Putin (president of Russia). I don't really care to be honest. I don't think I want to see the face of the man who is wicked enough to do the things he is prophesized to do.

[None]

All who stand behind the armaments of men are defiled by the beast and need to come out from among them and be separate. The Lord is about to strike the earth in the four streams and

[MeCajunboy]

regardless of who decides to sit upon the throne in the temple and proclaim himself the Christ it will happen and it will be soon..

the anti-christ and the Anti-Christ are two different beings. The anti-christ exists in false teachings, deceptions and indoctrinations that do not align with the word of God. The Anti-Christ just hasn't shown his face yet because the Almighty is holding him at bay until the other prophesies of Revelation are fulfilled. But they are both very real and in existance

Blessings

Cajunboy:::: I don't agree with your premise that "the time will happen soon!" God said, "No one knows the time of his death or when HE will come to take us with HIM! And HE said that for a reason. Of course we see signs. We have seen signs all throughout history. We need the signs in order that we might recognize the trouble the world is in, and re-align ourselves with HIS teachings. Without the "signs" or "warnings" we might continue to travel as the early people of Israel did, as we are already repeating many of their same errors of their ways. Whether the "time" is soon or we gain a repreive from God for another time for correction and reform is not as important as recognizing the signs and begin making our corrections NOW ! AS A "Christian" nation, we have become complacent in our fight for righteousness as we allow women to abort at an alarming rate, merely because it is their bodies and they may fornicate at will. Then for a few dollars out of pocket and insurance paying the remainder, can rid themselves of their error, but remain in their ways. Or the homosexual, convincing us a a community that, "God made them this way," when we know God says differently.....And so on !

I do not agree that the Pope is or was the "Anti-Christ" although I do agree that the entire establishment is wrong and the Vatican, does not deserve the recognition and idolotry it commands. While I was bord Catholic, I AM A CHRISTIAN FIRST AND FOREMOST! And I live by God's commands that HE has set forth in HIS Book! I do believe we need to come together as a Christian Nation, and begin the task of cleaning up our own country and our world as it is evident that we are living in a very sick and disturbed world.

Be blessed

Cajunboy

[Smalcald]

Is Babylon literal?

If it is and I think it may be; given what is happening in the Middle East and given the prophetic role of Israel, we must ask who the biggest power in Babylon is today?

I am not an American basher, I love this country and I supported the invasion of Iraq. However, when I here talk of a permanent 50 year occupation and building a huge permanent compound/embassy in the heart of Babylon, well it really makes me thing about prophesy and who is playing what roles.

[Smalcald]

But don't you see both expounded in Scripture? Indeed I agree all those who don't confess Christ are of the anti-Christ or an anti-Christ.

However we also see very direct passages about there being one being in the End Times who rules for a time on this earth, sitting as God etc.

[nite_breed]

no-one can really say if the anti-christ is coming soon as we dont know when or have any inkling as to when vut having said that cant really say it WONT be soon for the same reasons, myself i believe it could well be one of many people from both low and high positions depending on your definition of seat of power

[Smalcald]

Naaa, you