trib days

[Openly Curious]

Would be interesting to hear from both.

Also any thoughts you have in this regards would also be interesting to read as this is your thread. Am interested in others thoughts in this regards.

OC

[Guest jckduboise]

well, i am not going to turn this into a rapture thread because it is not..it is about a dream that reminds me of what we as the remant might see during tribulation

[Openly Curious]

well, i am not going to turn this into a rapture thread because it is not..it is about a dream that reminds me of what we as the remant might see during tribulation

I see

I have studied in the book of Revelation for a long time and I can see through the Spirit eyes in what the Lord had given unto John the Revelator. For this is the only picture that needs to be a constant reminder for the saints of God. for the church should adhere to the things God gave unto the churches through his prophet John. I can already see that remnant which is not the church. But it is the sealed Jews 144,000 from each tribe that will be raptured and not the church. No matter how many times one says they have a dream about such and such their personal dreams will not even begin to come close to the horrors that i found written in the pages of God's word regarding those times that will come to pass on this earth during the end-time events. Whether you are pre-trib or not.

Ignorance in God's word is a burden on my heart for in it lies the secrets of the prophets in which God revealed his will unto mankind. No dream can even come close to the warnings within but do it harm as they only slightly heal his people if even that much. As far as me I wouldn't want to be reminded of what i might see if I thought I was going to go through it for the horrors of that terrible time would have me prostrate on the floor in a deep depression like I've never known before and I've seen dark dark depression in my life to the point of giving up. But this is just me and my thoughts and beliefs in this regards. blessings

OC

[Guest jckduboise]

well, i am not going to turn this into a rapture thread because it is not..it is about a dream that reminds me of what we as the remant might see during tribulation

I see

I have studied in the book of Revelation for a long time and I can see through the Spirit eyes in what the Lord had given unto John the Revelator. For this is the only picture that needs to be a constant reminder for the saints of God. for the church should adhere to the things God gave unto the churches through his prophet John. I can already see that remnant which is not the church. But it is the sealed Jews 144,000 from each tribe that will be raptured and not the church. No matter how many times one says they have a dream about such and such their personal dreams will not even begin to come close to the horrors that i found written in the pages of God's word regarding those times that will come to pass on this earth during the end-time events. Whether you are pre-trib or not.

Ignorance in God's word is a burden on my heart for in it lies the secrets of the prophets in which God revealed his will unto mankind. No dream can even come close to the warnings within but do it harm as they only slightly heal his people if even that much. As far as me I wouldn't want to be reminded of what i might see if I thought I was going to go through it for the horrors of that terrible time would have me prostrate on the floor in a deep depression like I've never known before and I've seen dark dark depression in my life to the point of giving up. But this is just me and my thoughts and beliefs in this regards. blessings

OC

Your reasoning would be sound if we did not know that becoming a Christian "saint" grafts us through adoption of God to the gentiles into the family of Israel. God gave all to us as He has given to the nation of Israel.

This dream was not a warning it highlighted the things that will be seen among all people and especially those who remain, who endure to the end.

First we see plague.

Then we see a woman returning to her house when told to go, not returning to the world. Do not look back..do not go back into the house for if you cannot leave all behind for His sake then you shall perish.

And in the last paragraph we see disobedience in how we are told to keep watch and get through it safely..the Father and Son on horseback..could that not represent the fact that God tells us we will be instructed on where to go and what to do during times of trouble? wouldn't He be just as capable and doesn't He promise this during the days of the Tribulation? Yes He does! The mother and daughter the bride? And would it not seem logical that He would have His REMNANT packing in 2's and 3's or larger small groups for support and upholding?

Tribulation will be a time of falling away because people are unable to endure what is going to happen. Those who do not fall away WILL be a remnant of people who at one time were a member of the body of Christ and those who become members through turning from satan, the world and sin..taking up the cross..these are remnants..and you are right it is not a new church persay..it is THE Church body that remains..steadfast people who are WILLING to put their very lives on the line for Christ..Those who do not will NOT remain.

If need be we could give definition through a dictionary..but the bottom line is that a remnant is that which remains.

Please OC do not assume that because I have not listed scripture that I am not aware of it and have not studied it. Thus not making me ignorant. Thank you for respect in that manner.

[Openly Curious]

well, i am not going to turn this into a rapture thread because it is not..it is about a dream that reminds me of what we as the remant might see during tribulation

I see

I have studied in the book of Revelation for a long time and I can see through the Spirit eyes in what the Lord had given unto John the Revelator. For this is the only picture that needs to be a constant reminder for the saints of God. for the church should adhere to the things God gave unto the churches through his prophet John. I can already see that remnant which is not the church. But it is the sealed Jews 144,000 from each tribe that will be raptured and not the church. No matter how many times one says they have a dream about such and such their personal dreams will not even begin to come close to the horrors that i found written in the pages of God's word regarding those times that will come to pass on this earth during the end-time events. Whether you are pre-trib or not.

Ignorance in God's word is a burden on my heart for in it lies the secrets of the prophets in which God revealed his will unto mankind. No dream can even come close to the warnings within but do it harm as they only slightly heal his people if even that much. As far as me I wouldn't want to be reminded of what i might see if I thought I was going to go through it for the horrors of that terrible time would have me prostrate on the floor in a deep depression like I've never known before and I've seen dark dark depression in my life to the point of giving up. But this is just me and my thoughts and beliefs in this regards. blessings

OC

Your reasoning would be sound if we did not know that becoming a Christian "saint" grafts us through adoption of God to the gentiles into the family of Israel. God gave all to us as He has given to the nation of Israel.

This dream was not a warning it highlighted the things that will be seen among all people and especially those who remain, who endure to the end.

First we see plague.

Then we see a woman returning to her house when told to go, not returning to the world. Do not look back..do not go back into the house for if you cannot leave all behind for His sake then you shall perish.

And in the last paragraph we see disobedience in how we are told to keep watch and get through it safely..the Father and Son on horseback..could that not represent the fact that God tells us we will be instructed on where to go and what to do during times of trouble? wouldn't He be just as capable and doesn't He promise this during the days of the Tribulation? Yes He does! The mother and daughter the bride? And would it not seem logical that He would have His REMNANT packing in 2's and 3's or larger small groups for support and upholding?

Tribulation will be a time of falling away because people are unable to endure what is going to happen. Those who do not fall away WILL be a remnant of people who at one time were a member of the body of Christ and those who become members through turning from satan, the world and sin..taking up the cross..these are remnants..and you are right it is not a new church persay..it is THE Church body that remains..steadfast people who are WILLING to put their very lives on the line for Christ..Those who do not will NOT remain.

If need be we could give definition through a dictionary..but the bottom line is that a remnant is that which remains.

Please OC do not assume that because I have not listed scripture that I am not aware of it and have not studied it. Thus not making me ignorant. Thank you for respect in that manner.

I am not assuming anything jckduboise I just gave my input whether it is received or rejected it makes no matter to me. Yes we as gentiles are adopted Jews but then there are still the natural Jews and always will be which is what scripture in Revelation is referencing to as the Jews will in that time in history realize they had crucified the Messiah and hung Him on a cross and will turn from the anti-christ and set themselves apart and God will send His angels to seal them in their foreheads as told to us in Revelation this has nothing to do with the gentiles being grafted in by faith into the one body of Christ for that is happening right now in the days of grace. Take it or leave it. blessings

OC

[Floatingaxe]

I am a believer in the rapture or being "caught up," but do not believe that everyone that claims to be a Christian will go. I read a small portion of Hal Lindsey's book and noticed he teaches that everyone who believes in Jesus, even the backslid and lukewarm will be taken out, but to me that is complete nonsense. The only people that will go in the rapture will be those who are watching and waiting for Jesus return which means they are living a holy lifestyle. I would be surprised if 5 percent of the Christian Church is ready to go, and some who are ready now will miss the rapture because they will be in sin when Jesus returns.

That being said Jackie, you can see that by my statements I have opened up a new can of worms, one over the eternal security debate. It is not that I wanted to, but by simply stating my feelings about the rapture, it just happened. It is the same way with your dream. You may not have wanted to start a rapture debate, but the very dream and interpretation you gave opens up an argument over that subject. It can't be helped because those that believe in the rapture won't accept what you said.

There is something I was wondering about. If you believe the entire Christian Church will go through the great tribulation, nobody spared God's cup of wrath on this world, what do you advise Christians to do to prepare for that time, from a practical stand point, and what steps have you taken personally?

I agree with you re: lukewarmness. The Word says in Hosea 4:6...

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.

Because you have rejected knowledge,

I also will reject you from being priest for Me;

Because you have forgotten the law of your God,

I also will forget your children."

Key words above---"MY PEOPLE"

[Guest jckduboise]

well, i am not going to turn this into a rapture thread because it is not..it is about a dream that reminds me of what we as the remant might see during tribulation

I see

I have studied in the book of Revelation for a long time and I can see through the Spirit eyes in what the Lord had given unto John the Revelator. For this is the only picture that needs to be a constant reminder for the saints of God. for the church should adhere to the things God gave unto the churches through his prophet John. I can already see that remnant which is not the church. But it is the sealed Jews 144,000 from each tribe that will be raptured and not the church. No matter how many times one says they have a dream about such and such their personal dreams will not even begin to come close to the horrors that i found written in the pages of God's word regarding those times that will come to pass on this earth during the end-time events. Whether you are pre-trib or not.

Ignorance in God's word is a burden on my heart for in it lies the secrets of the prophets in which God revealed his will unto mankind. No dream can even come close to the warnings within but do it harm as they only slightly heal his people if even that much. As far as me I wouldn't want to be reminded of what i might see if I thought I was going to go through it for the horrors of that terrible time would have me prostrate on the floor in a deep depression like I've never known before and I've seen dark dark depression in my life to the point of giving up. But this is just me and my thoughts and beliefs in this regards. blessings

OC

Your reasoning would be sound if we did not know that becoming a Christian "saint" grafts us through adoption of God to the gentiles into the family of Israel. God gave all to us as He has given to the nation of Israel.

This dream was not a warning it highlighted the things that will be seen among all people and especially those who remain, who endure to the end.

First we see plague.

Then we see a woman returning to her house when told to go, not returning to the world. Do not look back..do not go back into the house for if you cannot leave all behind for His sake then you shall perish.

And in the last paragraph we see disobedience in how we are told to keep watch and get through it safely..the Father and Son on horseback..could that not represent the fact that God tells us we will be instructed on where to go and what to do during times of trouble? wouldn't He be just as capable and doesn't He promise this during the days of the Tribulation? Yes He does! The mother and daughter the bride? And would it not seem logical that He would have His REMNANT packing in 2's and 3's or larger small groups for support and upholding?

Tribulation will be a time of falling away because people are unable to endure what is going to happen. Those who do not fall away WILL be a remnant of people who at one time were a member of the body of Christ and those who become members through turning from satan, the world and sin..taking up the cross..these are remnants..and you are right it is not a new church persay..it is THE Church body that remains..steadfast people who are WILLING to put their very lives on the line for Christ..Those who do not will NOT remain.

If need be we could give definition through a dictionary..but the bottom line is that a remnant is that which remains.

Please OC do not assume that because I have not listed scripture that I am not aware of it and have not studied it. Thus not making me ignorant. Thank you for respect in that manner.

I am not assuming anything jckduboise I just gave my input whether it is received or rejected it makes no matter to me. Yes we as gentiles are adopted Jews but then there are still the natural Jews and always will be which is what scripture in Revelation is referencing to as the Jews will in that time in history realize they had crucified the Messiah and hung Him on a cross and will turn from the anti-christ and set themselves apart and God will send His angels to seal them in their foreheads as told to us in Revelation this has nothing to do with the gentiles being grafted in by faith into the one body of Christ for that is happening right now in the days of grace. Take it or leave it. blessings

OC

blessings to you..

[Guest jckduboise]

I am a believer in the rapture or being "caught up," but do not believe that everyone that claims to be a Christian will go. I read a small portion of Hal Lindsey's book and noticed he teaches that everyone who believes in Jesus, even the backslid and lukewarm will be taken out, but to me that is complete nonsense. The only people that will go in the rapture will be those who are watching and waiting for Jesus return which means they are living a holy lifestyle. I would be surprised if 5 percent of the Christian Church is ready to go, and some who are ready now will miss the rapture because they will be in sin when Jesus returns.

That being said Jackie, you can see that by my statements I have opened up a new can of worms, one over the eternal security debate. It is not that I wanted to, but by simply stating my feelings about the rapture, it just happened. It is the same way with your dream. You may not have wanted to start a rapture debate, but the very dream and interpretation you gave opens up an argument over that subject. It can't be helped because those that believe in the rapture won't accept what you said.

There is something I was wondering about. If you believe the entire Christian Church will go through the great tribulation, nobody spared God's cup of wrath on this world, what do you advise Christians to do to prepare for that time, from a practical stand point, and what steps have you taken personally?

Instead of rewriting what I wrote from the doctrinal forum in "The Rapture" regarding the question you asked there this is the only answer that could be given..

Though I thuroughly enjoy being in agreement with you Butero this is one area where we differ greatly in opinion and obviously portions of our faiths..

There is the great probability that when Christ told us not to worry that we would be provided for during ALL times of any proportion of tribulations in our lives and the 3 1/2 yrs of The Tribulation that He was making a promise to us that we would be kept in the shelter of His wings and that there would most likely be supernatural provisions made for us just as they were during the days of Moses and the jewish people going to the land of milk and honey.

To say that we could not live through it because there would be no way to survive takes everything I believe God has done so far and flushes is it down the drain. It puts limits on Gods awesome abilities and shows that my trust in His ability is not as it must be.

There is no way to practically prepare..condsidering that we don't know the day nor the hour..just wait for instructions and trust Him.

God always has made this promise to us and has always kept this promise. He isn't going to go back on His word of this either.

Place more trust in that Butero..the days are coming and you will see it..you will be kept in His shelter and you will be provided for by Him in ways that will blow your mind.

Blessings to you my brother

[Marnie]

Christians will be gone in the rapture before any of the tribulation happens.

yes LawyerForGod,

I don't plan to be here neither for that time period I want to be accounted worthy and ready and I pray we are should he choose to come as the thief in the night. I want to be watching and ready.

OC

You are already counted worthy, not because of anything you have done or will do, but because of the merit of Jesus Christ and the imputation of His righteousness. The doctrine of imputation says when G-d looks at you, He sees all the good things Christ ever did (simply put). There are no levels of righteousness in the Lord's reckoning. Still if some feel they need to go through the Tribulation to be "cleansed" or "purified" or whatever, maybe the Lord will make an exception for them (just kidding, kids). None of us is worthy on our own before the Lord, but we are made worthy by Christ and Christ alone ("judicial sanctification," for the lawyer guy). Obvioulsy a lot of people have a problem with that Biblical teaching.

[Guest jckduboise]

I am a believer in the rapture or being "caught up," but do not believe that everyone that claims to be a Christian will go. I read a small portion of Hal Lindsey's book and noticed he teaches that everyone who believes in Jesus, even the backslid and lukewarm will be taken out, but to me that is complete nonsense. The only people that will go in the rapture will be those who are watching and waiting for Jesus return which means they are living a holy lifestyle. I would be surprised if 5 percent of the Christian Church is ready to go, and some who are ready now will miss the rapture because they will be in sin when Jesus returns.

That being said Jackie, you can see that by my statements I have opened up a new can of worms, one over the eternal security debate. It is not that I wanted to, but by simply stating my feelings about the rapture, it just happened. It is the same way with your dream. You may not have wanted to start a rapture debate, but the very dream and interpretation you gave opens up an argument over that subject. It can't be helped because those that believe in the rapture won't accept what you said.

There is something I was wondering about. If you believe the entire Christian Church will go through the great tribulation, nobody spared God's cup of wrath on this world, what do you advise Christians to do to prepare for that time, from a practical stand point, and what steps have you taken personally?

Instead of rewriting what I wrote from the doctrinal forum in "The Rapture" regarding the question you asked there this is the only answer that could be given..

Though I thuroughly enjoy being in agreement with you Butero this is one area where we differ greatly in opinion and obviously portions of our faiths..

There is the great probability that when Christ told us not to worry that we would be provided for during ALL times of any proportion of tribulations in our lives and the 3 1/2 yrs of The Tribulation that He was making a promise to us that we would be kept in the shelter of His wings and that there would most likely be supernatural provisions made for us just as they were during the days of Moses and the jewish people going to the land of milk and honey.

To say that we could not live through it because there would be no way to survive takes everything I believe God has done so far and flushes is it down the drain. It puts limits on Gods awesome abilities and shows that my trust in His ability is not as it must be.

There is no way to practically prepare..condsidering that we don't know the day nor the hour..just wait for instructions and trust Him.

God always has made this promise to us and has always kept this promise. He isn't going to go back on His word of this either.

Place more trust in that Butero..the days are coming and you will see it..you will be kept in His shelter and you will be provided for by Him in ways that will blow your mind.

Blessings to you my brother

Hello Jackie. Thanks for your response. I would not disagree with God's ability to take care of his own if it were his will that the church go through the great tribulation period. I believe a large portion of "the church" will be here during the tribulation, but it will be those who were not ready when the rapture occurs. Since that is my belief, I don't believe this lukewarm group will have any supernatural aid during that time but will have to do the best they can to survive and possibly die a martyr. In the rapture thread, I gave a response to why I believe in the rapture though the word itself is not in scripture but it was very lengthy so I will not bother to post it all here.

Anyway, the main thing is that we keep walking with Jesus and shun sin. If we do that and I am right, one day I will meet you in the sky in the rapture, and if you are right, we will be close enough to the Lord to make it through until the second coming.

You are right that the only thing we can do is to keep ourselves looking straight ahead and walk with Jesus..the lukewarm group of believers will not go either way any how..

Butero, I used to believe in the rapture. And if my changed belief is wrong then I will be raptured right along with the rest..I do thank God that believing in rapture is not a prerequisite to enter the pearly gates or I would be sitting right along side the lukewarms. Personally I see the rapture as false teaching and gives the OSAS group the oppurtunity to just sit back and wait for God without having to do all the things He tells us we must do to ensure our salvation.

Blessings