LadyRaven Posted August 7, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,981 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1964 Share Posted August 7, 2006 Well I am afraid I disagree that living a "holy lifestyle" will help Butero. The only holiness recognized by God is the holiness of Jesus which we get credit for only by faith in Him. Until we die or until Christ returns should that happen first we have no standing with God through good works or holy living. There are only believers and unbelievers and they will be seperated at the End. Not that I am against fighting against our inclination to sin but like I said, the rapture as you believe it is not biblical. There will be no rapture that leaves others behind. There will be no second chances and no 7 years of Tribulation before Jesus returns for what would be a third time. The true rapture will mean the end of the age and the coming of the New Jerusalem where Christ will reappear. The Final Judgement will occur and God's true elect will be brought completely into His Kingdom to live and rein with Him forevermore. Amen sw Well said St Worm (I have to admit I'm intrigued by the nic...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
followerofjesus Posted August 7, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 31 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,013 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/08/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2006 Mark 13:30 30I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. (Jesus speaking to his disciples) I would like to discuss this statement as it pertains to the mystery of the rapture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomascjr Posted August 7, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 5 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2006 Butero you are correct God does recognize holiness and commands us to be Holy. But we are to live through the Holiness given to us by Jesus. If we truly live a christian life and follow the teachings of Jesus we will be holy. You are to live free of sin and to live free of sin is possible through the power of the holy spirit. This is where alot of people are confused now and teach false doctrin. They think that you get saved and you continue you your life and not even worry about the sin you commit. But Jesus clearly states in John 5:14 and John 8:11 to go and sin no more. So if Jesus believes we can live with out sin so do i. If we cant acheive the strength through Jesus to be overcomers of sin then we really arent living the life Jesus called us to live, which is a HOLY lifestyle. This is where the so called homosexual christian pervert the word of God and say that Jesus accepts the sin they live in when God hates sin. Romans Ch. 1 and 1Co 6: talk about who will not inherit the kingdon of God, they both contain scriptures that people should read and study on. With the rapture; as i stated in an earlier post it doesnt matter if you believe in the rapture or not because the belief of the rapture is not what will save your soul or get you into heaven it is the blood of jesus that does that and nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jckduboise Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 To Jackie, I do thank you for your response even though we don't agree on this subject. It seems a bit strange because we usually do come down on the same side of things. To you I would say this. If the church had to go through the tribulation period, if that was God's plan, you are correct in saying he is capable of taking care of his own. I would never say God's hand was short in his ability to do so. I was just speaking in terms of preparing in the way of storing up food and water, preparing some type of underground shelter, etc. After all, God's Word warns us of the things to come upon the earth, so in a sense, God could be taking care of us by giving us the warning and then leaving it up to us to prepare. I believe in the rapture but if I didn't, I would be trying to store up non-perishable foods and things like that in preparation for that day. I understand that people would want to do that and even I have considered it but it was halted by Him. His words need to be listened to..no one knows neither the hour nor the day..not even the Son. It is impossible to know where you will be, what you will be doing or even what disaster will strike to show the opening pages of these days to come. When Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. There was no prior warning to them they were simply instructed to leave everything behind and walk away from the city and do not look back. Those who left were led out by angels and told where to go. This is supernatural, Butero. This is what I have to assume will be something we can expect. Preparations cannot be made. God will provide the needs of us who remain. Those who love Him and have complete faith and trust..Psalm 91 Butero..read it and let it become part of you..I do believe that you love the Lord and know He is capable of doing anything..please do not take my words as meaning you lack faith in God..Blessings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terri321 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Is the word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted August 9, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 9, 2006 This is not an attack on those rejecting the rapture but a sincere question. As someone who does believe in the rapture and that only those who are ready to go when Jesus returns will be taken, my message is simple, walk as close to Jesus as possible and shun evil. To those who do not believe in the rapture, what is your advise to the church? How are you personally preparing to survive the great tribulation period? Thanks, and I look forward to reading your comments. It just doesn't make sense in my mind to scare people about the evil times awaiting them without having a course of action for them to take. As some of us have noted Butero, the Rapture and Tribulation as presented by the Left Behind crowd is a figment of their imagination. They do not exist Scripturally and are a relatively recent invention. When Jesus returns it will be for the last time. No second chances, no new Temple, no Tribulation, no left behind. It will be over and all things will be made new. It will be the time of the final judgement. My advice is keep your eye on the prize, trust in Christ, and confess and repent of your sins, daily putting the old Adam to death. Feed your faith by hearing God's word preached and partaking of the sacrament. sw Thanks for answering my question St. Worm, but I guess I was looking for advise on a practical level, that is, on how to survive the great tribulation period? Are you suggesting that if one does those things you mentioned, they will make it through? To me, following Jesus is something we should be doing regardless of whether we believe in the rapture or not, of course, from my viewpoint, living a holy lifestyle is necessary to go in the rapture so it would be the type of advise I would be giving. Butero, I take this to mean that you don't believe the righteousness of Christ is sufficient to get you to Heaven or as you put it to "go in the rapture"? How can a "holy lifestyle" still tainted by sin get you to Heaven? Is the gospel to you, Christ + Holy Lifestyle? Thanks. sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted August 10, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 10, 2006 This is not an attack on those rejecting the rapture but a sincere question. As someone who does believe in the rapture and that only those who are ready to go when Jesus returns will be taken, my message is simple, walk as close to Jesus as possible and shun evil. To those who do not believe in the rapture, what is your advise to the church? How are you personally preparing to survive the great tribulation period? Thanks, and I look forward to reading your comments. It just doesn't make sense in my mind to scare people about the evil times awaiting them without having a course of action for them to take. As some of us have noted Butero, the Rapture and Tribulation as presented by the Left Behind crowd is a figment of their imagination. They do not exist Scripturally and are a relatively recent invention. When Jesus returns it will be for the last time. No second chances, no new Temple, no Tribulation, no left behind. It will be over and all things will be made new. It will be the time of the final judgement. My advice is keep your eye on the prize, trust in Christ, and confess and repent of your sins, daily putting the old Adam to death. Feed your faith by hearing God's word preached and partaking of the sacrament. sw Thanks for answering my question St. Worm, but I guess I was looking for advise on a practical level, that is, on how to survive the great tribulation period? Are you suggesting that if one does those things you mentioned, they will make it through? To me, following Jesus is something we should be doing regardless of whether we believe in the rapture or not, of course, from my viewpoint, living a holy lifestyle is necessary to go in the rapture so it would be the type of advise I would be giving. Butero, I take this to mean that you don't believe the righteousness of Christ is sufficient to get you to Heaven or as you put it to "go in the rapture"? How can a "holy lifestyle" still tainted by sin get you to Heaven? Is the gospel to you, Christ + Holy Lifestyle? Thanks. sw Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." I interpret that to mean that any sin we think out and commit after salvation is not automatically under the blood covering. We must go to Jesus and confess that sin to him to receive forgiveness for it. I do not believe that things we may do wrong by error or that were not thought out will keep us out of heaven or keep us from going in the rapture. In addition to this scripture, I gave many more to back up this belief in reference to the rapture already, but I will re-post it so you may comment on it. I believe what you are saying is that only confessed sins are atoned for. I also believe that is classic Roman Catholic doctrine. Paul writes in his letter to the Romans that we are justified freely by grace by the blood of Christ apart from the Law. He also writes that by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight. I think you are taking individual scriptural verses like Hebrews 10:26 and taking them out of context and by doing so leaving the gospel behind. If your standard is correct none of us will ever qualify for Heaven. No one can have no unconfessed sins. Certainly the Apostle made no such claims and confessed as much in the 7th chapter. Sin permeates all of our actions since the sinful nature remains with us. Finally you seem to be falling into the Pelagian trap of saying that sin only equals specific acts. As Luther wrote, justification is the doctrine on which the church stands or falls. The gospel says Christ died for sinners, for the ungodly. The gospel says we are counted as righteous because Christ dealt with our sin at the cross. The gospel does not say we are counted as righteous because we confess all our sins. Any collection of verses that you interpret to mean that salvation is the result of our works or confessions have been terribly misinterpreted. sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted August 10, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 10, 2006 If you will notice, there is a distinction made between unintentional sins and wilful sins in Romans 10:26, so if I am making a mistake in claiming there are differences, it is the result of what the scripture says. It really doesn't matter to me if the Catholics teach a similar doctrine. The difference is that I don't need a human priest as a go-between to make confession to. I can go directly to Jesus. Since I do make a distinction between wilful and unintentional sins, one most certainly can believe as I do and be saved. Not everyone commits pre-meditated wilful sins throughout the day. In addition, it is quite possible to confess those sins and be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness. I covered all of this before in the last thread on the subject of eternal security. To go down that road again here will likely prove as futile as it did in the other thread, so I will bow out of it with this post. I have already made my position clear. I can only hope you might consider what it means that we are declared just in the sight of God and why that is so. The gospel is what we believe, not what we do. sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted August 12, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted August 12, 2006 The only thing I would say St. Worm is this. I accepted Jesus as the result of a sermon by a radio preacher, and I have no idea what denomination he was from. He could have been a OSAS Baptist for all I know. Based on that, even if I am wrong and the OSAS crowd is right, I have nothing to lose except having lived out my pilgimage on this earth believing a lie. I got saved in the same manner all other believers did, through accepting Jesus, and since according to that doctrine, no sin, not even believing something false after the fact can cost you your salvation, I should be alright. I would like to respond to just this point you made Butero. I know is not the main topic but consider. I did not get saved by ACCEPTING Jesus. I got saved by acknowledging Him as Lord and seeking to have Him accept me into His kingdom based on my submission to His Lordship and propitiation. To tell Jesus that we accept Him is condescending to say the least. To bend our knee and confess Him as Lord it what the Word tells us to do. LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted August 12, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Oh-Oh...Submit:accept game. We accept Jesus Christ as Saviour, for the reason He came... we accept His sacrifice for us! Then, in turn, we submit to Him as Lord as His rightful position over us. Blessings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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