Witnessing

[Guest dood0909]

Anne: I have highlighted bits and pieces for a reply that you said hopping to ward of confusion.

4. From this dood has further concluded that if I believe this then it destroys my Once Saved Always Saved belief and there is only one way to Heaven belief, I am unsure why this is concluded by dood, but this is how I am understanding his post. However it does not, now you come back here dood and finish this!!!

I didn

Edited September 2, 2006 by dood0909

[Anne]

Anne don't try and think what dood will say you will need more coffee then girl!!!!

Having just read your replies dood, I think i'll be grabbing that coffee Lady G mentioned

[Anne]

Just incase you zoom off into cyberspace on me dood, I want to post the answer to the most important point you made.

What does hope have to do with turning to Christ???

My answer:

Remember what I said hope was? Hope is the knowledge of Jesus, you remember that bit? Jesus said He came into the world to give knowledge of salvation. The hope that we were subjected to from the beginning was the knowledge of Jesus Christ, do you understand what I mean?

I wish you could stick around for longer, that is such an inadequate answer, but it is brief and to the point. As for the other points, i'm getting to them..........eventually

[Openly Curious]

But if everyone has that hope in which God says we do. Then god must have ordained that very hope before the fall had taken place to begin with so in fact we all did become truely lost but god being of love could not allow it to go on forver. we just had a temporary several thousand year fight with god. why? so we can learn what love truely is. we can experience love instead of just having knowledge of it.

dood,

God has made a way for every person who is born into this world to be saved through Jesus Christ redemptive work on the cross. This was so ordained of God before the foundation of the world. It is not God's will that any should perish but all come to repentance.

However not everyone will come to repentance and accept the redemptive work of Christ on the cross and be saved from the penalty of sin that passed upon all which the penalty of breaking God's law in the garden was death, hell and the grave. As the human race became captive to Satan. It is through Christ that we have and recieve eternal life, heaven as our home and hope of the resurrection of our bodies and we will have a glorified body to live in through out eternity and the unsaved will have a glorified body but will be in the torment of hell.

Not everyone has this hope but only those who recieve Christ as Lord and Saviour have this blessed hope for it is Christ in us the hope of glory not every one has received Christ into their hearts and lives.

It is true God is love but He is also a God of wrath and He will punish all the workers of iniquity who refuse to repent.

Their are consequences to breaking the laws of God as we learn the lesson in the garden and the consequences of their choices in what it lead to. It brought a curse upon all in the world and the earth itself. It brought murder, thieves, hatred, anger rage, envy, strife, confusion, bitterness, jealousy, gossip, fornication, adultery, and so on as evil was part of our world from then on till now.

Their still is consequence to breaking the laws of God. For Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments which will bring blessings into ones live but disobedience will only bring destruction in the end.

Not every one is saved and not every one has this blessed hope in which I speak of but it is only the redeemed the born again children of God who has made Christ their Lord and King that has this blessed hope of eternal life of eternity in heaven Revelation chapter 21 and the hope of our bodies being resurrected and we receive a glorified body just as Jesus had when he came up out of the grave on that third day which Christ was the first fruits. Meaning He was the first to ever be ressurrected from the dead in a glorified body. Some may say what about Lazurus well Lazurus was resurrected from the dead but he did not have a glorified body for he still had to die again physically. Jesus can never be killed again on our behalf as He had a glorified body as He was taken up into heaven making Him the firstfruits from the dead and we have this same hope who have been born again and come to repentance of our sins and turn our backs to sin to serve the one true and living God.

We all did become truly lost the entire human race at the disobedience in the garden but we did not all become saved at the coming of Christ nor did all recieve this blessed hope that came through Jesus Christ for it did not pass upon all men even though it is available to all who will freely come and recieve it.

OC

[Anne]

I'm still here, my other account has been banned and i can't get any email to actually delete it lol. i'm not going to leave without saying bye, swapping emails. i'll gladly answer anymore that anyone has to ask, then thats it i'm off.

make sure you do dood, though I still wish you would stay

[Tribulation]

If there is any further bits you don't understand trib or Lady G, just let me know, but bear in mind i'm only guessing at what dood is thinking Now dood you get back here, see what you've started now!!!! I have trouble enough keeping up with my own mind, never mind trying to guess what you are thinking.

I'm totally and utterly lost now! A few posts ago, I had a vague idea of what the debate was about - now - I can't even remember what we were discussing before!

I'm not quite sure what the problem with 'hope' is?!

[LadyGunivere]

Trib I think we both fell off the bandwagon of understanding between them too.

[redeemed098]

Quick note for you dood,

I had just about finish my reply to you, when my computer system went down!!! ....so bare with me, i have to type it all out again..........i can tell this is going to be one of those days........

Get a Mac.

Regards,

Ben.

[Anne]

If there is any further bits you don't understand trib or Lady G, just let me know, but bear in mind i'm only guessing at what dood is thinking Now dood you get back here, see what you've started now!!!! I have trouble enough keeping up with my own mind, never mind trying to guess what you are thinking.

I'm totally and utterly lost now! A few posts ago, I had a vague idea of what the debate was about - now - I can't even remember what we were discussing before!

I'm not quite sure what the problem with 'hope' is?!

Trib I think we both fell off the bandwagon of understanding between them too.

I am the only one who understands what dood is asking

Alright, it would appear that we are all in need of some nourishment, as redeemed suggested, so trib you do the food run, I'll have a big Mac with fries and a coffee, ooooh and supersize me please!!!!!!

If you guys are not following this thread, now that the doodster is gone , unless anyone has anything they'd like to add, how about we close it? After I get my Big Mac!!!!!

[redeemed098]

dood,

It appears to me that you want all the answers so you dont have to walk by Faith.

You DO realise dont you that once you think you have identified how it all works you have ceased to walk by Faith.

I dont think its wrong at all for you to desire answers. Im simply pointing out to you that if you NEVER receive any of the answers youre looking for, God will still be God, and his Word remains perfect and True regardless. Circumstance doesnt change who God IS..It merely changes a mans perception of who God is.

Let us look at Job. How many questions did Job ask God, and how many chapters of Lamentations did Job pour out due to the vexation of his soul...? Let us not forget that according to God himself, Job was the most righteous man in all the Land, "for there was no one in the Land more righteous than Job."

Please notice dood the response to Jobs grief and pain when God finally answers him....

"Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge, stand like a man, I will question YOU and YOU shall answer ME. Where were YOU when I laid the foundations of the earth, tell me if you understand these things."

Dood, God did not accuse Job of having said anything wrong about him, he had not lifted his head to curse God and he had not accused God of any wrongdoing, yet God did not answer ANY of his questions. God simply went on in dialogue about himself. He proceeded to reveal HIMSELF to Job in ways that Job had never before known him. That is why at the end of Gods discourse with Job, Job said this...

"You asked who is this that darkens your counsel without knowledge? Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know. You said Listen now and I will speak; I will question you and you shall answer me. MY EARS had HEARD of you, but NOW my EYES have SEEN you. Therefore I despise myself and repent in sackcloth and ashes."

Dood, there are many questions we may never know the answer to, so our greatest problem dood is our feeling the need to have everything explained.

God is God regardless. Who says any of it HAS to make sense in the first place. I find it hard to understand many things in the bible on face value, but that is only because I have been raised in a world that says for something to be believable it must be seen. Yet Jesus said "blessed are those who have NOT seen."

Moses led the Israelites to a dead end during the Exodus from Egypt...Nothing made sense initially, but thats because it was beyond anyones comprehension that God could part the sea. Yet he did. Thats a strange way to rescue a people who thought they were trapped. Yet further reading tells us WHY God did this. Not just so his glory could be seen, but because he knew that if they went by way of the roads they would come to a place of battle where most would flee and head back to Egypt....God has some very strange ways dood. He told Moses to throw his staff on the ground, proceeded to turn it into a snake, and then while it was still a snake he asked Moses to pick it up again.....Whats logical about that...? What about Jericho...Yell and the walls will fall down..?? How..??

God has done things in very strange ways dood, ways that strike men as being illogical and hard to comprehend. But none was more strange than the way he chose to save the world.

"For God so LOVED the WORLD, he gave his only begotten son so that whoever believes upon him shall not perish, but have everlasting life."

This one scripture sums up the bible dood. Firstly God LOVED the World...Not a few in the world or a select bunch, but the World..Secondly there was something wrong with it that required he send his son in the first place...Sin. Jesus came into the world, made himself a sacrifice for our sins and then when he had done that went to sit down at the right hand of the father where is today. That is the UNcomplicated version of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I wasnt IN the garden of Eden dood, nor was I in Egypt or at the battle of Jericho. I wasnt in Jerusalem when Jesus was cruicified for my sins and I wasnt in Rome to hear Paul preach the good news of Jesus. But I believe all of these things by faith. I believe God. I believe the witnesses who walked with him, heard him teach, touched him and ate with him. The bible tells us that it was credited as righteousness to Abraham because he believed God.

I can try to answer all of your questions dood, and I might even come up with some pretty wise sounding teachings, but the ultimate truth dood is that I wasn't there and therefore I do not know. The only authority I have to speak to you with is the bible. It is the first and final authority in ALL circumstances for my life as a believer.

If I cannot speak to you with scripture then you have stripped me of any authority to speak the Word of God as I have NO authority at all outside of scripture to testify to these things. I dont want to speak to you with words of my own wisdom because "I" cannot save. That is why Paul always resolved to speak nothing but "Christ and HIM crucified."

The bad news is .."The wages of sin is death." the good news is..."But the gift from God is eternal life through Christ Jesus."

God will reveal things to you dood on a need to know basis. Otherwise you can expect a, "who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge."

If that is how he addresses the most righteous man in all the land, then what can YOU expect...???

Why did he do the things he did in the way that he did them...I dont know dood. My own commentary would be mere speculation so I will spare you. If God consults me on these things, I will let you know. If you're interested at all in some answers God HAS given me to a couple of questions, then give me a few seconds and I will share them with you.

I asked God once why men chase after things like science and evolution and worldly knowledge that holds no eternal value..?? His answer was short and UNcomplicated,

"All of these things stem from man feeling the need to have everything explained. The reason has this need is because he does not have his fulfillment in ME."

That's It...That simple. Man dependency instead of God dependency.

I also asked him another question.."Lord, why didnt you do what needed to be done with the Israelites while they were IN EGYPT...??

Once again his answer was simple and UNcomplicated.." I had to bring them out of Egypt so that I could get Egypt out of THEM."

You see, separation from the world is just the first step before entering the Promised land. You must go through the desert first to be refined and tested. Learn to Trust in God and know where your true dependency lies. Even Jesus went into the wilderness to be tested...

Regards,

Ben.