Guest shiloh357 Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Does John say this? No this is your interpretation. No where in 1 John 5: 16-17 does John say "Blasphemy is the only deadly sin, and there is no way to overcome this deadly sin." You have taken a verse out of the Bible and added what you think it means. Actually some commentators believe that the "sin unto death" is a reference to offenses against civil law which bear the death penalty. It was useless to pray for such a person to be pardoned if the judge could not commute the sentence, and if the person was truly guilty and deserving of such a penalty. The "sin not unto death" would be the opposite, and it would be appopriate to pray for someone to be pardoned in that situation. That is just one point of view. Others see it as a reference to the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which Jesus called the unforgivable sin. There are other various and sundry opinions on the matter, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted August 21, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted August 21, 2006 That is precisely the sin John was speaking of--the unforgivable sin. Axe, Are you trying to say that if a teenager commits blasphemy but later on in life repents and ask God for forgiveness, he will not forgive that person. If that's the case many people are going to hell. God is a merciful God and no sin is to big for him to forgive. There is a way to come back into the grace of God after committing a deadly sin, there has to be or else 99.9 percent of the world would be going straight to hell. God knew this . This is why the Christ established the Sacrament of Reconciliation to deal will deadly sin and bring us back into communion with Christ. No--the unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit--One who is so depraved, he will never come around. A total reprobate. Sold out to the devil! This is the person John refers to. Does John say this? No this is your interpretation. No where in 1 John 5: 16-17 does John say "Blasphemy is the only deadly sin, and there is no way to overcome this deadly sin." You have taken a verse out of the Bible and added what you think it means. My commentary tells me that. I trust it as a great help in discovering deeper meaning than my mere mind can give me! It adds to my understanding as the Lord leads as well. I don't just read something and willy-nilly say, "Oh that means that!" I do study and ask the Holy Spirit to divulge to me what He means, as we all should be doing! Maybe a commentary would help you as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pax Posted August 21, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 961 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/30/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2006 That is precisely the sin John was speaking of--the unforgivable sin. Axe, Are you trying to say that if a teenager commits blasphemy but later on in life repents and ask God for forgiveness, he will not forgive that person. If that's the case many people are going to hell. God is a merciful God and no sin is to big for him to forgive. There is a way to come back into the grace of God after committing a deadly sin, there has to be or else 99.9 percent of the world would be going straight to hell. God knew this . This is why the Christ established the Sacrament of Reconciliation to deal will deadly sin and bring us back into communion with Christ. No--the unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit--One who is so depraved, he will never come around. A total reprobate. Sold out to the devil! This is the person John refers to. Does John say this? No this is your interpretation. No where in 1 John 5: 16-17 does John say "Blasphemy is the only deadly sin, and there is no way to overcome this deadly sin." You have taken a verse out of the Bible and added what you think it means. My commentary tells me that. I trust it as a great help in discovering deeper meaning than my mere mind can give me! Maybe a commentary would help you as well. I have a commentary....its the Magesterium of the Catholic Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted August 21, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Not touching that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antz Posted August 21, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 71 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/13/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 Axe, POST # 86 is waiting for your answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted August 21, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted August 21, 2006 You remember Peter... he cut a guards ear, denied Jesus for 3 times... yet it is not considered willful act because he was dragged by the circumstances to do it... it was a sin... but it was forgiven... Antz - David was forgiven for his sin against Uriah, despite having to still pay suffer consequences (discipline). He deserved death, but was spared. Please don't try to say that wasn't a willful act! It was... But due to God's justice saying... Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Did you ever find David commiting the same sin after God's dicipline??? NO!! How did we go from willful acts to repeated acts? Are you changing your argument? As for Peter, he wasn't forced to do anything. He chose to attack; he chose to say what he did. That is not his choice!!! How dare you speak to Peter like that... given the choice, Peter will never choose to do that... look at what Peter chose to do... Luk 22:33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death. 34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me. You see that... that is what Peter have chosen in his heart... to be with Jesus till death... but out of circumstances he was forced to deny Jesus... HOW DARE YOU ACUSED PETER OF WILLINGLY DENYING JESUS!!! and now you call me heretic... look in the mirror... Umm . . . first of all, where did I ever call you a heretic? Second, why is it heretical to say what I did? Jesus told His disciples to take a sword, correct? So, when the soldiers came, Peter chose to defend His Master - and in so doing cut off the servant's ear. As for the denials, I would like for you to explain how circumstances force him, that he had no choice? A recent presentation on Peter I've seen formulated an interesting explanation to Peter's denials. According to Scriptural teachings back then, the Messiah was was not supposed to be subdued, surrender, or submit. Yet, Peter watched Jesus be subdued, surrender to the Roman guards, and submit to arrest. This on top of the strange things Jesus did at the Passover feast with the bread and wine. And Jesus rebuking Peter for using the sword Jesus had told the disciples to take with them. Can you imagine Peter's confusion? In this light, Peter's denials were not trying to protect his life, but his confusion - he was so sure Jesus was the Messiah, but now...? He didn't know what to think. "I don't know the man!" was a cry of confusion, not a lie to save his life. But after the cock crowed three times, Peter remembered Jesus words of prophecy to him and wept bitterly. I really do not know what your bottom line point to this whole debate is. Look at the Topic... if you will believe that all disobedience is an act of will knowing that willfully committing sin is deadly, that would mean all sins are deadly. this would be out of the Biblical principle because John clearly stated that there are deadly and non deadly sins. If what you say is true, we are all doomes. I can't believe you are now perfectly sinless. Example: have you forgiven all people in your entire life who have hurt or offended you in even the smallest ways? But what you are claiming here is quite bizarre. It is bizarre to those who are inclined in believing INTERPRETATIONS rather than beleiving IN WHAT IS WRITTEN. and besides, I know that we (real Christians) are bizarre... because for some we are peculiar people That sounds to me liek you just accused us of not be real Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted August 21, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted August 21, 2006 didn't you read my post??? i was dragged because somebody puke at my post. You could have chosen not to respond. But you chose to respond. Noone forced you to do anything. That is akin to Eve saying it was the serpent's fault she ate the fruit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted August 21, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Ok, from Hebrews 10:26-31.... If we give up and turn our backs on all we've learned, all we've been given, all the truth we now know, we repudiate Christ's sacrifice and are left on our own to face the Judgment and a mighty fierce judgment it will be! If the penalty for breaking the law of Moses is physical death, what do you think will happen if you turn on God's Son, spit on the sacrifice that made you whole, and insult this most gracious Spirit? This is no light matter. God has warned us that he'll hold us to account and make us pay. He was quite explicit: "Vengeance is mine, and I won't overlook a thing" and "God will judge his people." Nobody's getting by with anything, believe me. This is talking about those who abandon their faith, who turn their backs on their salvation. This refers to the loss of our standing with God... pretty sad state of affairs, eh? A sensitive and true believer still sins, but they have the understanding that they need to come to repentance immediately and renounce that sin. What's the trouble, then, antz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted August 21, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted August 21, 2006 What i found is a Biblical verse that says... Peter's choice: Luk 22:33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death. Peter's unwillful sin: Luk 22:34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me. Are you saying Jesus forced Peter to sin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antz Posted August 21, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 71 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/13/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 (edited) Ok, from Hebrews 10:26-31.... If we give up and turn our backs on all we've learned, all we've been given, all the truth we now know, we repudiate Christ's sacrifice and are left on our own to face the Judgment and a mighty fierce judgment it will be! If the penalty for breaking the law of Moses is physical death, what do you think will happen if you turn on God's Son, spit on the sacrifice that made you whole, and insult this most gracious Spirit? This is no light matter. God has warned us that he'll hold us to account and make us pay. He was quite explicit: "Vengeance is mine, and I won't overlook a thing" and "God will judge his people." Nobody's getting by with anything, believe me. This is talking about those who abandon their faith, who turn their backs on their salvation. This refers to the loss of our standing with God... pretty sad state of affairs, eh? A sensitive and true believer still sins, but they have the understanding that they need to come to repentance immediately and renounce that sin. What's the trouble, then, antz? The trouble is... there's no verse supporting your answer... it looks to me that it is just another interpretation... and worse is... you did not answer the question so let me put it again... Do you agree that willful sins are deadly after we received the knowledge of the truth as what the Bible say??? Hebrews 10:26For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, Edited August 21, 2006 by antz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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