Proof in the existance of God

[endure4salvation]

I will give some proofs of the existence of God, but many people usually dismiss these proofs or attempt to deny or dismiss them. Here are just four ways that we can prove the existence of God.

1. Moral absolutes can not exist apart from God. Moral absolutes do exist, therefore God exists (I have yet to meet someone who claims to be an atheist that will tell me what Adolf Hitler did wasn't morally wrong). If it is morally wrong, than it is because there is a moral absolute, which exists ONLY because God exists to give us those moral absolutes in writing (Exodus 20) and in conscience. Each of us has a conscience that tells us right from wrong. Some choose to suppress this, but most of us will agree that child abuse is morally wrong. Once again, because moral absolutes exist, God exists.

2. Every person can have a personal relationship with God, and I can show you thousands of others just in my area that do have a personal relationship with God. I personally spent many years in deep depression because of my father's untimely death at 42. I was 14 at the time and it shook me up so bad that I got heavily involved with alcohol, drugs, women, evil spirits, and using people for my personal gain. I was in the process of attempting suicide when the Holy Spirit came upon me and gave me peace and comfort. Now, my life is filled with joy unspeakable and the peace that passes all understanding. Again, I can show you thousands of people that have had a life changing experience because of the God that made Himself manifest in flesh and went by the name of Jesus Christ. I have yet to have someone show me an atheist who has had this type of change because of their belief in atheism.

3. A creation (the universe) DEMANDS a Creator. We call Him God (universe is two Latin words--uni and verse--which literally translates into "Single Spoken Sentence". The Bible says in Genesis chapter 1, "And God said..."). If a person has a car or a watch, there must have been a auto maker or watch maker. Thus, a world demands a world Creator. We call this Creator Jesus Christ.

4. There is no plausible explanation for the empty tomb 2,000 years ago other than the resurrection. The Jews didn't want Him alive. The Romans didn't want Him alive. Only his followers did. And they could not have stolen the body for several reasons. First, it was Passover and the Law given by Moses said that if someone touched a dead body, they would be unclean for 7 days. Secondly, there were several Roman soldiers guarding the tomb. Each one of the guards were relieved in shifts and if one was caught sleeping they would have been killed. So they would have had to die either with honor (guarding their post) or dishonored (by cowardice). The disciples went from cowards running away from harm (even though they knew that Jesus was the Messiah) and then suddenly they were willing to die horrible deaths for something that they knew to be a lie? That is intellectual suicide! The only plausible explanation for the empty tomb is that Jesus was raised from the dead, thereby proving His deity as the God that created the world.

In order to be an atheist, one must have 100% complete knowledge of everything that exists. No one person would claim to know everything, so therefore, there is no such thing as an atheist. If I were to say, "There is no gold in China!", it could easily be disproved by finding just one speck of gold in China. But in order to claim that, I would have to have complete knowledge of everything, and every place in China at the exact same time. Think about it.

So this is enough to prove that there is a God. And a God that desires to be loved in a personal way by His creation. I have responded to this love, have you? I can take you to Jerusalem and take you to the empty tomb. But some will come up with some mind numbing explanation of something that attempts to explain away the obvious--that Jesus Christ was raised up from the grave. The writers of the New Testament were eye-witnesses of this and wrote about it.

11 out of the 12 of Jesus' disciples died for what they knew to be true--that Jesus was raised up from the dead to defeat death and to make payment for our sins. Are the atheists willing to die to defend their belief in atheism? Probably not.

Plus, it doesn't really matter what a person believes.

It isn't WHO is right, but WHAT is right.

If the Christian is wrong, they have lost NOTHING. They will never know that they were wrong.

If the atheist is wrong, they have lost EVERYTHING. They will regret never accepting Jesus as Savior for eternity.

[Fovezer]

1. Moral absolutes can not exist apart from God. Moral absolutes do exist, therefore God exists (I have yet to meet someone who claims to be an atheist that will tell me what Adolf Hitler did wasn't morally wrong). If it is morally wrong, than it is because there is a moral absolute, which exists ONLY because God exists to give us those moral absolutes in writing (Exodus 20) and in conscience. Each of us has a conscience that tells us right from wrong. Some choose to suppress this, but most of us will agree that child abuse is morally wrong. Once again, because moral absolutes exist, God exists.

Morals are outside of god. I don't need a god to give me morals, I already know what is right and wrong based on our society, and society defines morals. I know killing is wrong, and that if I was to kill, I would feel absolutely horrible. Words can't describe it. I, as an atheist, think what Hitler did was morally wrong, but that doens't been moral absolutes exist. Will to agree that what you god did to the first-born of the Egyptian families was morally wrong? If not, then moral absolutes DEFINATELY do not exist.

2. Every person can have a personal relationship with God, and I can show you thousands of others just in my area that do have a personal relationship with God. I personally spent many years in deep depression because of my father's untimely death at 42. I was 14 at the time and it shook me up so bad that I got heavily involved with alcohol, drugs, women, evil spirits, and using people for my personal gain. I was in the process of attempting suicide when the Holy Spirit came upon me and gave me peace and comfort. Now, my life is filled with joy unspeakable and the peace that passes all understanding. Again, I can show you thousands of people that have had a life changing experience because of the God that made Himself manifest in flesh and went by the name of Jesus Christ. I have yet to have someone show me an atheist who has had this type of change because of their belief in atheism.

First, atheism is not a belief, its a lack of belief

When I feel depressed, I look into myself and may seek the comfort of other people and try to solve my problems that way, like many atheists do. We don't need some superfluous diety to help us through our problems. Atheist are generally very happy, because we are not constantly worrying about a god.

You don't know ANY atheists, do you?

3. A creation (the universe) DEMANDS a Creator. We call Him God (universe is two Latin words--uni and verse--which literally translates into "Single Spoken Sentence". The Bible says in Genesis chapter 1, "And God said..."). If a person has a car or a watch, there must have been a auto maker or watch maker. Thus, a world demands a world Creator. We call this Creator Jesus Christ.

The creation of the universe definately does not demand a creator. You have offered no proof for this. When I look at the universe, I seen natural occuring events, not a god.

4. There is no plausible explanation for the empty tomb 2,000 years ago other than the resurrection. The Jews didn't want Him alive. The Romans didn't want Him alive. Only his followers did. And they could not have stolen the body for several reasons. First, it was Passover and the Law given by Moses said that if someone touched a dead body, they would be unclean for 7 days. Secondly, there were several Roman soldiers guarding the tomb. Each one of the guards were relieved in shifts and if one was caught sleeping they would have been killed. So they would have had to die either with honor (guarding their post) or dishonored (by cowardice). The disciples went from cowards running away from harm (even though they knew that Jesus was the Messiah) and then suddenly they were willing to die horrible deaths for something that they knew to be a lie? That is intellectual suicide! The only plausible explanation for the empty tomb is that Jesus was raised from the dead, thereby proving His deity as the God that created the world.

That is not the only explanation. The body could have been stolen. You have just stated what would happen to the guards, not what did happen. Again, no proof.

Yes, if the disciples convinced themselves or were convinced enough, they would do anything, even die. Ever heard of Heaven's Gate? It was a cult and they believed in that doctrine so much, they all commited suicide.

Again, that proves nothing.

In order to be an atheist, one must have 100% complete knowledge of everything that exists. No one person would claim to know everything, so therefore, there is no such thing as an atheist. If I were to say, "There is no gold in China!", it could easily be disproved by finding just one speck of gold in China. But in order to claim that, I would have to have complete knowledge of everything, and every place in China at the exact same time. Think about it.

Not all atheist claim there is no god. Only strong atheists do. Weak atheists just lack the belief in a god, and are open to the possiblity of a god, just they haven't seen any reason to belive in one (I'm a weak atheist.) Try this out for size:

In order to be a Christian, one must have 100% complete knowledge of everything that exists. No one person would claim to know everything, so therefore, there is no such thing as an Christian. If I were to say, "There is gold in China!", it could easily be disproved by not finding any gold in China. But in order to claim that, I would have to have complete knowledge of everything, and every place in China at the exact same time. Think about it.

So this is enough to prove that there is a God. And a God that desires to be loved in a personal way by His creation. I have responded to this love, have you? I can take you to Jerusalem and take you to the empty tomb. But some will come up with some mind numbing explanation of something that attempts to explain away the obvious--that Jesus Christ was raised up from the grave. The writers of the New Testament were eye-witnesses of this and wrote about it.

This is not proof at all, just your opinion, and the tomb thing, a mind-numbing explanation is that somehow, this man was magically resurectted, and floated up into the sky to be with his dad. Sounds like a fairy tale to me.

11 out of the 12 of Jesus' disciples died for what they knew to be true--that Jesus was raised up from the dead to defeat death and to make payment for our sins. Are the atheists willing to die to defend their belief in atheism? Probably not.

There is nothing to defend in atheism. Its simply a lack of belief.

It isn't WHO is right, but WHAT is right.

If the Christian is wrong, they have lost NOTHING. They will never know that they were wrong.

If the atheist is wrong, they have lost EVERYTHING. They will regret never accepting Jesus as Savior for eternity.

Ughhhhh. Pascal's Wager rears its ugly head. That was meant for agnostics on the fence. It will not work on atheists. Try adding this line:

If the atheist and Christian are wrong, and the muslim is right, then the atheist and Christian have lost EVERYTHING.

Out of the 5,000 or so gods, how can you be sure yours ir right?

[RGR]

The creation of the universe definately does not demand a creator.

It doesn't? See how logical THIS sounds:

The other night, a big tornado came through. Around back, I had a bunch of scrap metal and things laying around, but after the tornado came through, I had a brand new Rolls-Royce. Sounds silly, huh? No more silly than saying the universe has no creator!

The body could have been stolen.

I suppose whatever makes you happy and lets you override the conviction of your sins. But, the theory itself doesn't hold water. That tomb was heavily guarded by Roman soldiers. Plus, what did the disciples have to gain by stealing the body? As a matter of fact, they were so scared they were hiding out. Don't think they would've been bold enough to have tried to steal the body. How do we account for the transformed lives of the apostles? Men who were willing to give their life for the sake of the gospel. Now, let's say you decide to go start your own religion; you know it's a hoax from the get-go, so would you go all of the way to the death in defense of your religion? Most of the Church father's paid with their very life. The difference between the martyrdom of the Church father's is a totally different issue than cults such as Heaven's Gate. Every Christian martyr faced unimaginable torture at the hands of authorities. Heaven's Gate members did not suffer with their suicide in near the way Christian martyr's do.

Do hoaxes influence and turn upside down the whole known world? In less than 4 centuries from the death of Christ, the Roman Empire was turned upside down by Christianity. The whole basis of this nation was Christian principles as were many European countries. That, my friend, is something hoaxes and cults CANNOT lay claim to!

Morals are outside of god.  I don't need a god to give me morals, I already know what is right and wrong based on our society, and society defines morals.

Who gave us morals in the 1st place if not God? Society DOES NOT determine moral absolutes. Society left to itself without God goes into a downward spiral of decline in morals-our own society is an indication of that. We murder millions upon millions of unborn children under the guise of "choice." This is what you get when you attempt to isolate morals from religion.

You don't know ANY atheists, do you?

I know a few and they are some of the most absolute smart-mouthed know-it-alls I've seen. You dare to disagree with their position, all of this "acceptance" and "openness" goes out the window. The atheists I've met, such as yourself, seem to derive great pleasure in being insultive to people of faith.

Seems like a fairy tale to me

So, the idea that the universe was created by an all-knowing, loving God is a fairy tale to you? So, you'd rather believe that a bunch of gasses exploded and created the Earth? Try this-pour gasoline all over your house, light a match, and see what happens. Anything constructive? I bet not! But yet the almost exact same thing is believed to have created the Earth? Who's fairy-taling who?

If you are a truly open person who holds open the possibility of God, which I hope you are, may I suggest two very good books? The first one is by Josh McDowell-Evidence That Demands A Verdict and What If The Bible Had Never Been Written? by Dr. D. James Kennedy.

One other thing-what about Israel. Why are the eyes of the whole world fixed in gaze upon a small seemingly inconsequential nation in the desert? Why has this little nation been able to survive the things it has?

In closing, we're talking eternity here. You can try to explain away the Bible if you choose, but I can choose to explain away the TV if I like-still doesn't make me right, does it? Many atheists/agnostics have investigated the claims made by Christianity and have came to the conclusion that Christianity is THE way! Think twice, friend, it's eternity we're talking about!!!

[WayneB]

Fovezer --

If you truely are open to an intellectual debate on the existence of God, I would suggest you buy and read "The Question of God: C.S. Lewis and Sigmund Freud Debate God, Love, Sex, and the Meaning of Life" written by Armand M. Nicholi Jr., a professor at Harvard Medical School.

There are many folks that have a hard time coming to grips with their own finiteness and submitting to an infinite deity. I was one of those as was Lee Strobel, the author of "The Case for Christ". Lee was a devout athiest and award-winning journalist at the Chicago Tribune who one day set out to research and disprove the existence of God. His two-year study and search for the Truth led him to the exact opposite end.

Your choice of course but if you are truely open an intellectual analysis and search for the Truth, I encourage you to pick up these two books and read them. I am confident that one way or another you will find them intellectually stimulating.

Yours In Christ,

Wayne

[Guest rmj7]

OKay okay okay okay people! Let us not get harsh on this subject. Let us remember not to be so condemning of others who do not see our faith the way we do. We say most atheist are insultive of Christians. However, I believe, we, Christians, can be quite insultive about atheists as well.

If we are going to discuss Christianity with one who does not see it the way we do, we must keep our descency all the same....is that spelt right? Anyway, what I'm tryin to say is this, lets not get into the habit of saying "well atheists do this and Chrisians do that" stuff.

I spent the last couple of years talking to an atheist. Boy, was that a battle! It was so difficult for me to see this other person view God in such a different manner. It isn't easy at all. My stomach even got that aching feeling while I was reading the comment from the unbelieving lady/gentleman on this board.

Harsh words and arguing never solve a thing folks. Yes, there are some good atheists out there. Yes, they can have good morals just by their own good descent hearts. Not all steal, not all are perverted......not all even swear, fornicate, you name it! Shucks, as far as I'm concerned, atheists can live the morals of a Christian.........

BUT .............what is this issue about anyway? How do we believe in a God that we can't see or even hear? What is Christianity based on? Is Christianity based on the belief of "if you do good in life, you will go to Heavan"? He He He......nooooooooooo. Not at all. This is where we (Christians) tend to get a "lil" different in our beliefs when it comes to other spiritual beliefs. I'm pretty sure I can say most common religions have certain morals within them that any descent human being would "morally" try to abide by. You'll find me avoiding the word, "religion", because Christianity is so much more than that. I merely use it in referense to those other......belief systems.

However, my dear unbelieving folks out there, moral is not the ultimate "game" in Christianity. No, it is something greater, something stronger, something I'm sure all of us hav difficulty dealing with even today. Christianity is about GRACE. Jesus Christ is about grace. What is grace? It is mercy. Undeserved, almost unfair, mercy.

You see folks, when it comes all the way down to the nitty gritty, morals don't mean anything. Sure, these are good things to follow by indeed, and they will ensure you of a happy life, but can they get you anywhere beyond death? Ohhhhh no no no.

See, Christians use this word called "sin" to describe anything unruly thing we are not to do against ourselves or each other. For example, killing, stealing, cheating....and even lying is a sin. No body is perfect, right? So, needless to say, every human being has sinned some time in his/her life.

And this is where our "problem" with being human arises. God is a Supernaural Being, thus we always refer Him as.....ahem, ugh.....God. This Being we Christians serve is beyond the words or very thoughts of the human mind. No scientific theory can conclude Him, and no mathematical formula can equade Him. One of the qualities God has is perfection in every shape form and manner. Not only is He a Supernatural Being, but He is also a perfect Being. He's not like those Greek gods we had to read about in history or anything like that, not wanting revenge or human jealousy or anything like that. He is completely pure, and pureness must surround Him.

So, how are we, mere human beings, creatures of sin, suppose to dwell in the presense of such an awesome God? He refuses to have any sort of impure creature or object around Him, and the only place for anything imperfect is Hell.

Now, hell was not intended for..........geez......making a long story short........humans aren't pure enough to be in God's presense after death and the only other option is hell, but God loves His creation, Man-kind, and does not wish to see them in Hell if they can avoid it. So a sacrifice had to be made. A replacement, if you will. The sacrifice would serve as our replacement for hell. The sacrifice had to be of pureness and perfection though.

So, with all of the loves and cares of any father, God did the most unimaginable thing. He sent His very own son to be our sacrifice instead! A book in the Bible explains it in this manner: "For God so loved the world, he gave HIs only begotten son (Jesus) so that whosever believes in HIm shall not perish (in Hell) but have everlasting life (in Heaven with God's very presense). That is John 3:16 if any of y'all are wonderin.

So, atheists, scratch out the moral qualities for the complete proof in God if you must, but look towards the grace in His heart He had for us....and YOU. Really now, would you send your innocent child who never gave you any lip and did whatever you said over to replace the spot of a criminal in a trial stand who deserved to be on trial? I would think not! Well, that's what God did, and that is what we believe and accept. Now all you have to do is believe and accept as well, and you're in the "Hands of the One that Understands".

God said it, I believe it, and dat's the end of it!

[nicholas]

Not all atheist claim there is no god. Only strong atheists do. Weak atheists just lack the belief in a god, and are open to the possiblity of a god, just they haven't seen any reason to belive in one (I'm a weak atheist.) Try this out for size:

Fovezer,

By what you say here my friend you are not an atheist. If what you say is true, I hate to break it to you but you are an agnostic not an atheist.

If you are an atheist you do not believe in God period. If you just lack the belief in a God and are open to the possibility of a God you are an agnostic(not knowing).

I have a question for you. By our knowledge of mathmatics everything that moves has an original mover. Think of it, all things that we know of are moved by something else. What started the first movement. The big bang has been proven false by mathmatics, since we know for certain that the stars and planets are speeding up. So what was the first mover?

Next, all things in this world that man knows that are not natural that are made are made by something of greater intelect. Shirt=tailor, building=architect, car= mechanic, and so on. This is the nature of man. Things are made by things of greater knowledge. What was the first maker? I cannot believe that man being the most intellegent being that we know of was made by matter itself.

Last, Do you believe man has reason?

Nicholas

P.S. I do know atheists and agnostics, some are very close to me.

[jesusislord]

Proof in the exictance of GOD..... Let us go to the scriptures.

The WORD of the ALMIGHTY GOD. , THE BIBLE declares this.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

What this declares is that GOD has revealed the KNOWLEDGE OF HIM in every persoon......

[nicholas]

To all

One cannot argue with an atheist of the existence of God with holy scripture.

They don't put any accountability in it.

Nicholas

[jesusislord]

YOU SURE UNDERSTAND ESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE WORD....

how did i come to know GOD it is becasue i have heard the WORD OF GOD...

The word is what we base our life on.... thus we give the WORD TO PROVE THE WORD.

The word convicts, the word reveals the truth, the word saves. tje wprd cleaneses , the word corrects, nothing is better than giving the word to prove itself than the word of GOD...

I have showed several so called athiest the word and they either leave or they get saved.......

But nothing but nothing can stand against the word ofGOD....

BLESS YOU BROTHER

[nicholas]

Jesusislord,

Have you ever been an atheist?

Nicholas