rachel89 Posted September 1, 2010 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 26 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/17/1989 Share Posted September 1, 2010 OK . . . let me try this again. . . . The only way a person may be saved is to adhere to what Christ taught through His Church. "through His Church?" Where is this in Scripture? Here it is in Scripture: Matthew 16:18-19: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted September 1, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted September 1, 2010 The only way a person may be saved is to adhere to what Christ taught through His Church. "through His Church?" Where is this in Scripture? Here it is in Scripture: Matthew 16:18-19: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted September 2, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2010 Years ago I wondered what the difference was between salvation through works and salvation through faith... OneLight, you need to understand, ok, that the Bible doesn't give the choice of either “salvation through works” or “salvation through faith," but says that a person must have both faith and works together in order to be saved. In other words, you must not only believe our Lord’s commandments, but you must do them. If you believe that a person who accepts Jesus - if he turns away from that faith into a life of sin – to say that he never had true faith then you are speaking contrary to the words of our Lord in Luke 8:13. rachel, this is where you fail to understand what we are trying to tell you. We are saved before any works begin. It is because of our salvation that we would ever consider doing what God wants us to do. First comes salvation, then the Holy Spirit creates a new person in us, giving us a heart of flesh and the mind of Christ. Without this work from God being done in us, we wound never do His work that God created for us beforehand. You, for some reason, believe our works is part of salvation and we believe it is because of salvation. that is the problem with mans doctrine ... they always add onto what God tells us to fit their purposes. Do you not clearly read that Paul says, “Though I have all faith.” After reading Paul’s statement, can you not see that his statement of “I have all faith” leaves no room for the question “which faith?” because he already says “all faith.” Do you really believe that a person can have real faith in God, the faith that He bestows in us, and not have love? Can you not see that Paul is using himself as a fictional example of what is possible, not an actual example of who he is? Yes, all who wish to be saved must believe the words of Jesus in the parable of the sower where Jesus says that men can believe for a time and then fall away. (Luke 8:13) I believe the words of Saint Peter who says that after men have come to the faith, and after they have been delivered can become entangled again and lose salvation (2 Peter 2:20-22). I believe the words of Saint Paul who further confirms that true believers can fall away (Hebrews 6:4-6). All who wish to be saved have to believe that Jesus is the Son of the Father, that He died for our sins, rose again and is sitting at the right hand of the Father. They never have to understand any parables Christ spoke of. That is just false teaching. And more importantly, 2 Corinthians 5: 9-10, Paul says, “…Wherefore we labor, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of Him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that which hath done, whether it be good or bad.” We read that one must labor to be accepted by Christ. Further, we see that men will receive in the next world a reward or punishment based on what they have done in the body, “whether it be good or bad.” The things which man had done are seen as integral to his salvation or damnation. Read the Greek. The KJV places the word labor in the place of ambition, creating a different meaning. Yet, this has nothing to do with salvation, but the rewards we will receive. Paul spoke these work in his first epistle to the Corinthians. 1 Corinthians 3:5-15 Watering, Working, Warning Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor. For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. The reward is not salvation. Nobody can be considered God's fellow workers without first being saved. Jesus says that mean must radically cut off occasions of sin to avoid hell, not just believe. Matthew 5:29-30: “And if thy right eye offend thee, cut it off and cast it from thee… And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and that not thy whole body should be cast into hell.” This parable which obviously refers to cutting off occasions of sins – things in life that will drag people into offenses against God – only has meaning if sins and works are part of determining whether one attains salvation. By cutting off sinful things and bad works, one will save his soul. Man’s sins and works are therefore a part of his justification. If man were justified by faith alone, this parable would not make any sense whatsoever. You see so darkly through the glass. I am not saying that a person can not turn from salvation, placing themselves in danger, but the final choice is Jesus' choice, not man. The only sin that can not be forgiven is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Only the unsaved can commit that sin. The conviction from the Holy Spirit on a believe to do so would weight too much on their heart for them to commit it. In other words, God would not let you go with out a fierce battle with you. You could never do this by mistake, if a saved person could ever do this at all. Tell me, rachel, do you believe that a person can turn from sin without first being convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit? If your answer is yes, then you would have to agree that we do not need salvation through Christ to become holy. If the answer is no, then it is not us who is doing anything, but the Holy Spirit, removing "our works" from the picture because we are not doing the work, but Him. When we turn to Christ and He gives us His Spirit, it is He who is in us that does the work, not us. That is the faith we all live by, for He who is in us is greater the he who is in the world. 1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Why do you place so much emphasis in what "you" do? I have another question for you. When you say the "Catholic Church", are you referring to the true meaning of catholic, as in pertaining to the whole Christian body, or do you mean the Roman Catholic Church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psalmone Posted September 3, 2010 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 261 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/22/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/15/1970 Share Posted September 3, 2010 Hi, just say, when God starts something He's faithful to complete it. Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 Hi, just say, when God starts something He's faithful to complete it. Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." Romans 5:9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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