Fear/Love

[mrcorey]

Psa 34:9 O fear the LORD, you His saints; For to those who fear Him there is no want.

1Jo 4:8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

There are many passages that tell us to fear God in one way or another. And then, there are many passages that tell us the LOve God has for us.

If we are to fear God and yet know that He loves us. How do we reconcile the both? I cannot seem to rconcile them.

Thanks in advance for your explanations.

in Him;

-c-

[DInsights]

Psa 34:9 O fear the LORD, you His saints; For to those who fear Him there is no want.

1Jo 4:8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

There are many passages that tell us to fear God in one way or another. And then, there are many passages that tell us the LOve God has for us.

If we are to fear God and yet know that He loves us. How do we reconcile the both? I cannot seem to rconcile them.

Thanks in advance for your explanations.

in Him;

-c-

Fearing is not in the sense of being freightened or scared of the LORD as one would fear a bully or heavy-handed one.

To fear the LORD is to have reverence of Him, to be in awe of Him and most importantly to submit completely to Him such that we want to do His commandments and never want to incur wrath.

And when we submit completely to do His commandments, we love Him.

Grace and peace to all from God and Jesus Christ our Lord!

[st. Worm]

Psa 34:9 O fear the LORD, you His saints; For to those who fear Him there is no want.

1Jo 4:8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

There are many passages that tell us to fear God in one way or another. And then, there are many passages that tell us the LOve God has for us.

If we are to fear God and yet know that He loves us. How do we reconcile the both? I cannot seem to rconcile them.

Thanks in advance for your explanations.

in Him;

-c-

You cannot soften the words "fear the Lord". We are to truly fear God and our failure to do what he requires of us. It is our fear of Him that continually drives us back to the Cross knowing that apart from Christ we stand condemned. There is really nothing to reconcile. Everything not in Christ on the day of judgement will experience the wrath of an angry God.

sw

[DInsights]

Psa 34:9 O fear the LORD, you His saints; For to those who fear Him there is no want.

1Jo 4:8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

There are many passages that tell us to fear God in one way or another. And then, there are many passages that tell us the LOve God has for us.

If we are to fear God and yet know that He loves us. How do we reconcile the both? I cannot seem to rconcile them.

Thanks in advance for your explanations.

in Him;

-c-

You cannot soften the words "fear the Lord". We are to truly fear God and our failure to do what he requires of us. It is our fear of Him that continually drives us back to the Cross knowing that apart from Christ we stand condemned. There is really nothing to reconcile. Everything not in Christ on the day of judgement will experience the wrath of an angry God.

sw

2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

The Cross symbolizes God's first love to the world, for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son...

What drives us to the Cross is the love of God lest the Cross be empty of its power. I'd rather that I am drawn to the Cross by His love than by fear of His wrath that is provoked by sin. If the Cross has purged my sins, why should I be afraid (terrified) of wrath? No reason!

It remains that "fear" in Psalm 34:9 is different in meaning from "fear" in 2Ti 1:7 or there is a major contradiction. But we know both scriptures do not contradict each other. For how can God not give us the spirit of fear yet David, by the Holy Spirit, implores that saints fear Him.

Grace and peace to all from God and His Righteousness!

Edited September 11, 2006 by DInsights

[st. Worm]

Psa 34:9 O fear the LORD, you His saints; For to those who fear Him there is no want.

1Jo 4:8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

There are many passages that tell us to fear God in one way or another. And then, there are many passages that tell us the LOve God has for us.

If we are to fear God and yet know that He loves us. How do we reconcile the both? I cannot seem to rconcile them.

Thanks in advance for your explanations.

in Him;

-c-

You cannot soften the words "fear the Lord". We are to truly fear God and our failure to do what he requires of us. It is our fear of Him that continually drives us back to the Cross knowing that apart from Christ we stand condemned. There is really nothing to reconcile. Everything not in Christ on the day of judgement will experience the wrath of an angry God.

sw

2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

The Cross symbolizes God's first love to the world, for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son...

What drives us to the Cross is the love of God lest the Cross be empty of its power. I'd rather that I am drawn to the Cross by His love than by fear of His wrath that is provoked by sin. If the Cross has purged my sins, why should I be afraid (terrified) of wrath? No reason!

It remains that "fear" in Psalm 34:9 is different in meaning from "fear" in 2Ti 1:7 or there is a major contradiction. But we know both scriptures do not contradict each other. For how can God not give us the spirit of fear yet David, by the Holy Spirit, implores that saints fear Him.

Grace and peace to all from God and His Righteousness!

Why should you be afraid of wrath? Because you are still a sinner, a sinner that must continually be put to death by God's Law as we constantly confess our sins and agree with God about what we are. We only come to the Cross because of the condemnation of the Law. It is the Law that ultimately points us to Christ. The gospel without the law is meaningless. The God that loves us in Christ also hates us and condemns us in the Law. The Psalmist wrote God hates workers of inequity and if we are honest that is us. The condemnation of the Law never goes away in this life. We find love and righteousness of God at the cross as we put the old Adam to death and rise anew by faith in Christ. This is the way it will be until we leave this world. Jesus came for sinners, not the righteous and sinners we are. Paradox yes, contradiction no.

sw

[billie]

Hmmmm, I seem to recall a verse telling me there's no longer condemnation in Christ written by a nice guy named Paul.

[st. Worm]

Hmmmm, I seem to recall a verse telling me there's no longer condemnation in Christ written by a nice guy named Paul.

There is never condemnation for anyone in Christ. But as Paul notes in Romans 7, he also still has a body of death because the sin nature remains with him. That body and the sinner with it must still die.

sw

[billie]

Hmmmm, I seem to recall a verse telling me there's no longer condemnation in Christ written by a nice guy named Paul.

There is never condemnation for anyone in Christ. But as Paul notes in Romans 7, he also still has a body of death because the sin nature remains with him. That body and the sinner with it must still die.

So the condemnation then is only of our sin nature?

[st. Worm]

Hmmmm, I seem to recall a verse telling me there's no longer condemnation in Christ written by a nice guy named Paul.

There is never condemnation for anyone in Christ. But as Paul notes in Romans 7, he also still has a body of death because the sin nature remains with him. That body and the sinner with it must still die.

So the condemnation then is only of our sin nature?

Billie, believers exist as both saint and sinner not to be seperated. We are saved not because we are good but because we are COUNTED as good. We all must still die because in reality we are still tainted by sin. As sinners we continually confess and repent of what we are and what we do. We continually put the old man to death and rise again in Christ. The new man in Christ stands perfect and in need of nothing, no longer condemned by the Law. We are not yet in Heaven though where our perfection will not be tainted with sin. While we are positionally righteous through faith now, we must still die but believers die with Christ.

sw

[DInsights]

Billie, believers exist as both saint and sinner not to be seperated. We are saved not because we are good but because we are COUNTED as good. We all must still die because in reality we are still tainted by sin. As sinners we continually confess and repent of what we are and what we do. We continually put the old man to death and rise again in Christ. The new man in Christ stands perfect and in need of nothing, no longer condemned by the Law. We are not yet in Heaven though where our perfection will not be tainted with sin. While we are positionally righteous through faith now, we must still die but believers die with Christ.

sw

A saint is one that is born of God (born again) and, having been purged from sins, has obtained salvation that is a gift from God. Purged means purged...it does not mean half-purged! So, if completely purged from sin and iniquities, how is one a sinner? If the agency of sin and iniquity is removed from a born again one, how can he sin? 1Jo 3:9 says: Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The Blood of Jesus Christ is not like the blood of heifer that purges piecemeal according to the lifestyle of a believer who vacillates between sin (unrighteousness) and righteousness. Or Jesus Christ will be reduced to the level of a high priest ceaselessly making sacrifices for the sins of his people according to the Law of Moses.

Any saint purged from sins is squeaky clean from sins and iniquities and his heart becomes the dwelling place of God and our Lord Jesus Christ - his mind and conscience established with grace from God and flowing with godly thoughts and works ordained by God respectively. How then can we say in one breathe that a saint is purged from sins and in another breathe declare such a saint to be a sinner? Is the Blood of Jesus Christ same as the blood of goats that was unable to completely purge sins in days of the Law? Nay, it is not!

A believer is not necessarily a saint. A believer, while awaiting his redemption through the Blood of Jesus Christ, may so struggle with sin in his heart and members. The following things happen at salvation: redemption, forgiveness of sins, sanctification, justification and glorification. He is saved at:

1. redemption that buys him over;
   
2. forgiveness of sins having been purged completely;
   
3. santification that sets him apart and makes him holy according to the righteousness of Christ; and
   
4. glorification because salvation is a light of God.
   

These happen once and for all when the Blood of our Lord is sprinkled in his heart by the Holy Ghost. As Jesus Christ cannot die twice for the sins of men, it is impossible for those who have once tasted salvation unto the kingdom of God, if they fall, to be restored, seeing that they put Christ again to shame. But God does not forget their labor of love in His kingdom and is able to keep them from falling.

While waiting for that redemption that happens at salvation, a believer is sealed with the Holy Spirit. He is instructed to keep from grieving the Holy Spirit with which he is sealed. He may be vacillating between sin and righteousness, struggling with which nature should have control over his heart. But at redemption, the Spirit is unsealed and salvation lights up to the glory of God.

We are saved because we are GOOD, having been purged and redeemed by the Blood once and for all. We are also saved because we are COUNTED as good by the righteousness of our Lord Jesus Christ. How can a saint be the RIGHTEOUSNESS of God and yet the unrighteousness (sinner) at the same time? God is not like a man that He will say one thing and mean the opposite.

In a beliver yet saint, attempting to put the old man (carnal nature) to death does not mean it dies and lives and dies and lives and dies and lives... If the old man is yet living, it means it never died but was hibernating. Such is not the portion of a saint. But whosoever is purged from sins by the Blood of Jesus Christ is dead to sins and alive to Christ and the Lord. That is the portion of a saint.

The gospel of Christ is the spoken "power of God" unto salvation and has nothing to do with the Law. The Law simply acted as a school master pointing to the gospel. The Law never was the gospel because it could not save; never will be the gospel because it cannot save as it is weak over the flesh.

But the gospel is not weak over the flesh. First consider the "power to save" as a gift of God put in the heart of a man. Then consider that power declared in words (or speech). It is called the gospel in speech form. Whosoever that does not have the "power of God to save" in himself cannot declare the gospel that saves. God puts the power to save supernaturally in the one whose feet bears the gospel of salvation; not scriptures, not from anything else. Searching to declare/teach the scripture is not the gospel that saves; declaring the tangible gift of the "power of God" that saves is the gospel that is able to save whoever hears and accepts.

Even so, whosoever does not have the "power of the kingdom of God" cannot declare the gospel of the kingdom that heals, delivers, gives sight to the blind, sets at liberty those oppressed and declares the acceptable year of the Lord. That was why Jesus Christ first gave disciples "power" before they could declare the gospel of the kingdom.

Going back to subject of thread

To the saint, there is no fear (to be terrified) but love. Saints, after salvation, are called to the kingdom of God wherein is joy, peace, power, love, sound mind, righteousness, glory, beauty for ashes, etc. Where there is no mourning and hurt as it is in the kingdom of God, there is no reason to be terrified of anything that spins fear but to love all things. In 2 Timothy 1:7, Paul was writting to a saint...Timothy. Why? Because in the kingdom, sons of God are lifted up by angels lest they dash their feet against a stone. You can never find hurt in the Kingdom of God and as many as are operating in that economy will testify...for example, Saint Paul in Malta could not be hurt by a viper or by anything over which he has dominion unless allowed by God for a purpose, usually to minister the sufferings of Christ unto heirs of salvation.

To the saint, there is the spirit of the fear (reverential, submissive, respectful, looking up in awe) of God.

When a saint dies in the physical, it is not because of sins in his body. Rather, it is a good thing that he is liberated from the earthly tent to be with our Lord Jesus Christ in a glorified body.