gypc Posted September 30, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 972 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1964 Share Posted September 30, 2006 The Bible is never "completely silent" on the issue of what does or does not constitute a sin. Just because a particular sin is or is not mentioned is, for the most part irrelevant. Much of the time, we are able to find principles in operation where we do not necessarily find specifics mentioned. For example: The Bible does not say anything against pouring gasoline ourselves, and lighting ourselves on fire. I do believe that I can demonstrate, in principle, from the Scriptures why that is wrong. We can examine the fruit of those actions and determine where that fruit falls relative to principles outlined for us in Scripture. Snorting Cocaine is not mentioned in the Bible, but it can be demonstrated by comparing the fruit of Cocaine use/abuse with the fruit a Christian is supposed to produce, according to Scripture that use of this or other similar substances, falls under the category of sin. Here is one other thing... It is true that the Holy Spirit will lead us and convict us of sin; that is one of His duties here on Earth. The question is, by what standard? If the Holy Spirit is going to say to us, "This deed/thought is sin," what standard is He using to measure our deeds or thoughts? There has to be standard to measure against, to test against in order to determine right from wrong. That standard must be the Bible. How do I know when I am being led by the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit will always use the Bible as the textbook by which He teaches us. So, the Bible cannot EVER be "completely silent" on the matter of sin. This is an exellent post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethshemaiah Posted September 30, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 150 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/17/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 30, 2006 I Am wondering what sins are not covered in the Bible. The Bible must cover all kind of sin as it is from God and can not leave these minor details unresolved as man and Satan would be able to pull it to shreds. However by looks of it they are already attempting to do so without much opposition. Homosexuality is one such example of this. Not much more to add but simply say The Holy Spirit will prompt you in one way or another when something isn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethshemaiah Posted September 30, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 150 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/17/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 30, 2006 oh boy, what a can of worms you're opening. i'm betting this will get moved to controversial within the first 30 responses! but you're RIGHT! there are things, many things, that people lable as sin that scripture is silent on. and they shouldn't be labeled as sin. those things may be a stumbling block for certain people, and God may very well convict those individuals to refrain from the activity in question. but for the next person, it may not be something God convicts them of. i could name a few issues which fall into this category... but i'll just sit back and let someone else start the fireworks display. Thanks for the response, being that this is my first post, I am curious what the comment you made about "get moved to controversial means" does that happen? I am new to chat rooms and new to Forums like this. I can also think of things that the Bible is silent on and considering how explicit the Bible is on so many sujects I often wonder, but I am the type of person who ponders alot of things. I completely agree on the stumbling blocks and can think of birth control as only one example. I find that in study on psychology and marital issues the Bible is silent on certain "issues" and the Pastoral and Medical christian community seems to be split on these issues. Due to the fact that Christian counselors and Medical Doctors are asked the questions my concern is not that they discuss these issues but that they come to conclusions at all. If the bible does not mention something as sinful then should we and how do we? I do see that many people who answered feel that the Bible is never silent, I don't find this to be true. Have a blessed day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 I can think of a number of things where the Bible is silent, one would be birth control. We know that God sees and knows all things and I have studied the information that Pastors and authors have written for they are more learned than me, and they state that God is silent on the subject. If God who is all knowing wanted to weigh in on this I believe that it would have been addressed even though there was no such thing at the time, in some way. The Bible does say that we are to have children and it is one of the purposes for married love but what number of children is enough, especially if the couple if prolific. I think in areas that are not "sinful" per se, the Lord leads us to make the choices that are right for our individual situations. It really comes down to submitting such things to the Lord in prayer. God does not, in the Bible, itemize for us what kinds of lawful vocations that Christians should, or should not engage in. The Bible does not tell us what kind of houses, or how many cars we should own. Having said that, the only way such issues could become "sinful" is if we have received an indicator from the Lord as to the direction we are to take, and we are disobedient to His leading. If the Lord, for example, calls you into full time ministry, and you choose a different vocation, that vocation, though not sinful in and of itself, becomes sinful to you since it amounts to a violation of God's plan for your life. The Bible says that the steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord. We may not always realize it, but as we live in submission to the Lord, He is ordering our steps. As we live in submission to the Holy Spirit, and continue to seek the Lord's wisdom daily in prayer and in the Scriptures, we will make wise decisions. The Bible also says that the path of the righteous is like the light dawn; it grows brighter and brighter until the full day. When we walk in the light and wisdom the Lord gives us for today, He will give us more light, more wisdom and more direction for tomorrow. Our path will grow brighter and brighter until finally arrive at where the Lord has been leading us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted September 30, 2006 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,254 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,983 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 30, 2006 I Am wondering what sins are not covered in the Bible. The Bible must cover all kind of sin as it is from God and can not leave these minor details unresolved as man and Satan would be able to pull it to shreds. However by looks of it they are already attempting to do so without much opposition. Homosexuality is one such example of this. Not much more to add but simply say The Holy Spirit will prompt you in one way or another when something isn't right. Thanks for the response Andrew, I can think of a number of things where the Bible is silent, one would be birth control. We know that God sees and knows all things and I have studied the information that Pastors and authors have written for they are more learned than me, and they state that God is silent on the subject. If God who is all knowing wanted to weigh in on this I believe that it would have been addressed even though there was no such thing at the time, in some way. The Bible does say that we are to have children and it is one of the purposes for married love but what number of children is enough, especially if the couple if prolific. I would be condemned if I was truly seeking a relationship with Jesus Christ and was told that I was in sin because I used birth control, which I personally don't because I am single. There are other "things" that Christian Medical Doctors might not consider sin but Pastors do (but not all) and I ponder things like this especially when ministering to others. Comments? Some types of birth control might be condemned in the Bible some I don't think are. It would be a difference if one was taking a life or keeping one from starting. I am not sure what things that Christian Medical Doctors might think are not that might be by pastors. I don't think I fully understand where you're coming from. I do agree with Shilo's two posts and for me they cover things pretty well. Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Thanks for the response, being that this is my first post, I am curious what the comment you made about "get moved to controversial means" does that happen? I am new to chat rooms and new to Forums like this. I can also think of things that the Bible is silent on and considering how explicit the Bible is on so many sujects I often wonder, but I am the type of person who ponders alot of things. I completely agree on the stumbling blocks and can think of birth control as only one example. I find that in study on psychology and marital issues the Bible is silent on certain "issues" and the Pastoral and Medical christian community seems to be split on these issues. Due to the fact that Christian counselors and Medical Doctors are asked the questions my concern is not that they discuss these issues but that they come to conclusions at all. If the bible does not mention something as sinful then should we and how do we? I do see that many people who answered feel that the Bible is never silent, I don't find this to be true. Have a blessed day. sorry for confusing you. this message board has a forum for controversial issues... birth control was one of the ones i was thinking of also. that and at least one other issue that the Bible is silent on generally turn into very heated debates pretty quickly. something to bear in mind, and maybe someone else here can help me out regarding the numbers, is that IF this does get moved to controversial, there is, i think, a minimum number of posts you must have made in order to participate in that forum. just in case, you might want to start posting in other threads to get your count up.... but not in 'fellowship hall', those posts are not counted towards your numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naziyr Posted September 30, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 113 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/30/1984 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Not all forms of birth control are forbidden. (I dunno if this is okay to post? If not just delete it mods, and please forgive me!) Coming from a Jewish outlook on this, the main focus of sin in masturbation and some types of birth control, are the willful destruction of the "seed", which is sperm. We have an example of one man in the bible that willfully destroys his seed as a means of birth control, and this man is struck down dead by G-d. Now, what kinds of birth control are allowed? Think about that in this form of definition. Any form of birth control that inhibits the semen from reaching it's natural destination in intercourse is sinful. Under this definition, it could be "acts" of birthcontrol (not gonna describe this... here but remember the guy that got struck down lol), condoms, diaphrams, and vasectemys. Birth control pills or shots etc, are generally allowed (unless you're reaaally Orthodox) because it does not inhibit the semen from reaching it's natural place in the act of intercourse (the female reproductive organ). It merely makes the woman incapable of conceiving. Vasectemyes among fundamentalist circles, view this as "becoming a Eunich", in which Eunichs aren't allowed to marry the daughters of Israel, and are excluded from some functions in the assembly (in the time of old Israel). Vasectemys are also viewed as "disrupting the natural flow and destination of the seed". Both of these ordinances render this option impossible. Now, a woman having her tubes tied is viewed by the majority as being okay (unless you're reaaally Orthodox). This is because the natural flow is not disrupted. Now I must say that birth control is at times ESSENTIAL especially when the wife conceiving puts her health at risk. Anyways, to recap: Not all forms of birth control are forbidden. Forbidden: Condoms Diaphrams Vasectemys The "act" of birth control Using Spermicide (directly killing the seed) Allowed: Birth Control Pills Birth Control Shots Having one's tubes tied I don't think that's exhaustive, but I don't want to get too far into this and get like... in trouble. Any other things you may think the scriptures are silent on? Shalom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie Posted September 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,849 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/17/1979 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Birth control pills or shots etc, are generally allowed (unless you're reaaally Orthodox) because it does not inhibit the semen from reaching it's natural place in the act of intercourse (the female reproductive organ). It merely makes the woman incapable of conceiving. Not always, Naz, in some cases, conception occurs, but the fetus isn't able to implant into the uterine wall(an effect of the pill or shot), resulting in spontaneous abortion. Which is why I'm totally against this form of birth control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRaven Posted September 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,981 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1964 Share Posted September 30, 2006 I would like to get opinions on what the Christian community labels as sin where the Bible is completely silent on the subject. If Christians are divided on issues that are controversial and there is nothing to support or reject the issue as sin, do we have a right to label it a sin or should we be silent also? Is there room for the conviction of the Holy Spirit to lead us and will He if the Bible doesn't? The Bible is never "completely silent" on the issue of what does or does not constitute a sin. Just because a particular sin is or is not mentioned is, for the most part irrelevant. Much of the time, we are able to find principles in operation where we do not necessarily find specifics mentioned. For example: The Bible does not say anything against pouring gasoline ourselves, and lighting ourselves on fire. I do believe that I can demonstrate, in principle, from the Scriptures why that is wrong. We can examine the fruit of those actions and determine where that fruit falls relative to principles outlined for us in Scripture. Snorting Cocaine is not mentioned in the Bible, but it can be demonstrated by comparing the fruit of Cocaine use/abuse with the fruit a Christian is supposed to produce, according to Scripture that use of this or other similar substances, falls under the category of sin. Actually I do believe scripture does address drug use as the scriptures teach we can eat or drink anything, thus indicating we can consume anything...which taking drugs are doing, consuming them...so long as we can do so to the glory of God (that is a specific reference). Can we consume a drug and do so to the glory of God? There is also a command that we maintain a sober mind (another reference). I don't feel I need to address the first issue because, well it's rather hard to consume drugs and maintain a sober mind and any violation of scripture is not done to the glory of God. Here is one other thing... It is true that the Holy Spirit will lead us and convict us of sin; that is one of His duties here on Earth. The question is, by what standard? If the Holy Spirit is going to say to us, "This deed/thought is sin," what standard is He using to measure our deeds or thoughts? There has to be standard to measure against, to test against in order to determine right from wrong. That standard must be the Bible. How do I know when I am being led by the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit will always use the Bible as the textbook by which He teaches us. So, the Bible cannot EVER be "completely silent" on the matter of sin. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRaven Posted September 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,981 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1964 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Not all forms of birth control are forbidden. (I dunno if this is okay to post? If not just delete it mods, and please forgive me!) Coming from a Jewish outlook on this, the main focus of sin in masturbation and some types of birth control, are the willful destruction of the "seed", which is sperm. We have an example of one man in the bible that willfully destroys his seed as a means of birth control, and this man is struck down dead by G-d. Now, what kinds of birth control are allowed? Think about that in this form of definition. Any form of birth control that inhibits the semen from reaching it's natural destination in intercourse is sinful. Under this definition, it could be "acts" of birthcontrol (not gonna describe this... here but remember the guy that got struck down lol), condoms, diaphrams, and vasectemys. Birth control pills or shots etc, are generally allowed (unless you're reaaally Orthodox) because it does not inhibit the semen from reaching it's natural place in the act of intercourse (the female reproductive organ). It merely makes the woman incapable of conceiving. Vasectemyes among fundamentalist circles, view this as "becoming a Eunich", in which Eunichs aren't allowed to marry the daughters of Israel, and are excluded from some functions in the assembly (in the time of old Israel). Vasectemys are also viewed as "disrupting the natural flow and destination of the seed". Both of these ordinances render this option impossible. Now, a woman having her tubes tied is viewed by the majority as being okay (unless you're reaaally Orthodox). This is because the natural flow is not disrupted. Now I must say that birth control is at times ESSENTIAL especially when the wife conceiving puts her health at risk. Anyways, to recap: Not all forms of birth control are forbidden. Forbidden: Condoms Diaphrams Vasectemys The "act" of birth control Using Spermicide (directly killing the seed) Allowed: Birth Control Pills Birth Control Shots Having one's tubes tied I don't think that's exhaustive, but I don't want to get too far into this and get like... in trouble. Any other things you may think the scriptures are silent on? Shalom How does one get that BC pills and shots are allowed? They are abortafacient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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