Do You Believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved"

[TomPJr]

If our hearts are hardened to much to hear Gods voice calling us to repentence, then we will never ask for forgiveness.

That begs the question, "If God condemns us on the basis of our not having the ability or will to ask for forgiveness before we die, what happens when a Chrsitian dies suddenly and unexpectedly, without the opportunity to ask for forgiveness of his "dirt" (sins)?

Eternal punishment for a single sin without opportunity for repentance seems a bit extreme, don't you think?

Ovedya.... I respectfully ask you to think about something....

If you think that is extreme, what about torturing somebody endlessly without end in the lake of fire because of some 70 0r 80 years of sin in this life. Don't you think that is extreme? That is what common Christian Dogma teaches.

My point is this....

God Knows your heart...you may die with an unrepented sin and still be saved, it's all about your heart. I heard a parable once that went something like this...

there was a man that had given his heart to the Lord and from time to time he slipped back in to his old ways, but repented. After all, he was human. His heart desired to please God, and even though he really wanted to please God, once in a while he would slip and fall. God was with him though, and he would always get up again. One day he was killed in a tragic accident before he had a chance to repent of his last sin,,, and so Satan laughed as he charged God that the mans soul belonged to him, but God Responded...."I know his heart, and if given more time on earth, he would have repented... therefore his soul belongs to me."

Moral of the story- GOD KNOWS YOUR HEART......Where is yours?

If the reasoning is simply "God knows the thoughts and intentions of the heart," then isn't OSNAS undermined? Because, as being a man, one cannot truly know the thoughts and intentions of another man's heart. Therefore one cannot truly say with confidence that a single unforgiven sin would result in eternal torment.

(Incidentally, I am of the camp that believes in the finality of the second death.)

If I understand what you are saying, then I agree 100%

[larryt]

God is not to weak to save anybody. God is willing to save anybody who is willing to come to him, but if I choose sin over God then he will have nothing to do with me.

The new man/the born again man/the new creation cannot sin. 1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. Not only does he not practice sin but he CANNOT SIN.

That is impossible. What you are saying here is that man cannot sin after he was born again. That would create a huge paradox in the bible. Read these verses. The ones that I keep posting, but it seems people are ignoring -

Hi cardcaptor,

How would you interpret this verse then?

LT

[Thaddaeus]

Larryt,

I John 3:9. This verse must be understood and aligned with I John 1:6-9.

The words of I John 3:9 "does not sin" or "cannot sin" must be understood in the Greek because there it is expressed in the words that have much more meaning. A believer cannot knowingly sin, cannot practice sin. If one does so, they are in darkness and the Truth is not in Him. Man has the ability to move from one to the other. That is why we must strive, must work, must endure. We must strive against the devil who is striving mightyly to enter your life. He seeks whom he can devour. Christians are his main focus. Why work on someone you already have in your fold? That is why OSAS is such a false teachings. We, as believers do sin. And when we permit sin to dwell, to become a practice we are no longer in the Light, we are no longer IN Christ. Sin separates man from God.

[larryt]

Larryt,

I John 3:9. This verse must be understood and aligned with I John 1:6-9.

The words of I John 3:9 "does not sin" or "cannot sin" must be understood in the Greek because there it is expressed in the words that have much more meaning. A believer cannot knowingly sin, cannot practice sin. If one does so, they are in darkness and the Truth is not in Him. Man has the ability to move from one to the other. That is why we must strive, must work, must endure. We must strive against the devil who is striving mightyly to enter your life. He seeks whom he can devour. Christians are his main focus. Why work on someone you already have in your fold? That is why OSAS is such a false teachings. We, as believers do sin. And when we permit sin to dwell, to become a practice we are no longer in the Light, we are no longer IN Christ. Sin separates man from God.

Your reasoning is the "wisdom of man" and not the Word of God. What you said to me is:

This verse does not fit my theology and therefore must mean something else.

Back up your statement with scripture.

The statement by John that "we cannot sin" has to do with the new birth/new creation in Christ Jesus. Check the context of chapter 3. We shall be like Him. You show me that you do not understand the new birth, being born again from above, bing a NEW CREATURE/CREATION in Christ.

LT

[Phil.2:12]

Seems that people in this thread are concentrating on committing sin at the last possible moment and formulating some sort of a doctrine out of the conclusion. What about having your conscience seared with a hot iron? Paul addresses this topic in his letters. Or the denying of God to follow a more acceptable religious system, which Paul discusses in the 10th chapter of Hebrews? Where is the debate concerning one deliberately leaving God to follow something that is more convenient, as happened with the Christians in the first and second centuries who denounced God rather than face certain death at the hands of the Romans. In fact this practice extended into the 4th century and was a source of much debate within the early church.

Seems like we have centered our debate on when we sin prior to our death rather than on whether we are still following Jesus as Scripture outlines. If you are worried about loosing your salvation, you are probably just fine in that department. Those who do not worry about this subject and live a life devoted to sin are the ones who should worry the most. However, since their consciences have been seared over with a hot iron, they are unable to feel anything and go merrily on their way oblivious to anything remotely spiritual.

[Retrobyter]

Larryt,

I John 3:9. This verse must be understood and aligned with I John 1:6-9.

The words of I John 3:9 "does not sin" or "cannot sin" must be understood in the Greek because there it is expressed in the words that have much more meaning. A believer cannot knowingly sin, cannot practice sin. If one does so, they are in darkness and the Truth is not in Him. Man has the ability to move from one to the other. That is why we must strive, must work, must endure. We must strive against the devil who is striving mightyly to enter your life. He seeks whom he can devour. Christians are his main focus. Why work on someone you already have in your fold? That is why OSAS is such a false teachings. We, as believers do sin. And when we permit sin to dwell, to become a practice we are no longer in the Light, we are no longer IN Christ. Sin separates man from God.

Your reasoning is the "wisdom of man" and not the Word of God. What you said to me is:

This verse does not fit my theology and therefore must mean something else.

Back up your statement with scripture.

The statement by John that "we cannot sin" has to do with the new birth/new creation in Christ Jesus. Check the context of chapter 3. We shall be like Him. You show me that you do not understand the new birth, being born again from above, bing a NEW CREATURE/CREATION in Christ.

LT

Shalom, LarryT.

I believe in OSAS because of three points that the others seem to forget consistently:

(1) That justification of a person by God is accomplished BY GOD and not by any good works which we have done. Thus, our justification, not accomplished by good works, is not affected by our bad deeds. In fact, to be justified, one MUST first be a sinner! Justification is freely given without the need to first be cleaned up to come to the Lord. HE does the cleansing after a person comes to Him.

(2) That we are BORN into His family, not just adopted or placed by DCF! How does one become "un-born?" God asked the question, "Can a mother forget her baby?" Then answers it, "Well, a mother MAY be able to forget her baby, but I'll never forget YOU!" We are joint-heirs with the Messiah Yeshua`! God does not "re-write His will" every time someone sins and then comes back to Him! He not only KNOWS the end from the beginning; He DECLARES the end from the beginning!!!

(3) There is a difference between committing a sin and having a SIN-NATURE. Asking forgiveness for a particular sin will get forgiveness for that sin, but a believer in Yeshua` as Messiah should have asked forgiveness for being a SINFUL CREATURE! When God, for the Messiah's sake, forgives a person for being a SINFUL CREATURE, He forgives ALL OUR SIN, past, present, and future! We trade places with the Messiah when He was on the Roman execution device known as a "cross." As Paul put it, "He became SIN for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the RIGHTEOUSNESS of God in Him!" Before the cross, Yeshua` was without sin and knew no sin and fulfilled only the God's righteousness, because He "always did the will of His Father." ON the cross, Yeshua` BECAME our sin-nature for us, and the full weight of our punishment was upon HIM! Remember, ALL of our sin-natures were still in the future, not to mention the individual sins, when the Messiah died! The trade becomes complete when one who knows he doesn't have "a leg to stand on" in the courtroom of God the Father, comes humbly to God and asks for Him to accomplish the impossible. God then COMPLETES the trade for that person by justifying him/her and DECLARING him/her GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS FOUND IN THE MESSIAH!

For me, this settled the matter completely, and that's what faith is all about. It's trusting God to do for us the impossible and then resting in HIM! Justification by God is all about how GOD ACCEPTS US, not about our accepting God! One should focus on GOD AND HIS POWER, not on himself/herself and his/her weakness!

For the one who keep wondering, the very fact that one is still concerned means that that one is still one of His children, because--as was said above--an unbeliever DOESN'T CARE if he/she's sinning! As a matter of fact, the world CELEBRATES sin! The person who sins has become "sophisticated," or on the streets, he/she's considered "bad" and "struts his/her stuff!" He/she's become POPULAR for his/her sin!...

For one to REST on the promises of God, one must take his/her eyes off of himself/herself and his/her petty sins, and look to GOD for HIS SPIRIT'S POWER to break the "old man's" hold over him/her in his/her body. To do otherwise, is IDOLATRY!!! for what one is doing when one assumes his/her sin could separate him/her from God's love, is to assume that one's sin is GREATER than God's power to forgive! Thus, one is "belittling" God (blaspheming God), and setting one's OWN actions as GREATER--MORE POWERFUL--than GOD'S!!!

I know you're not the one to whom I should be saying all this, and I'm sure one way or another someone in this thread has already said all this, but at this point, I felt it necessary to repeat. I was hearing alot about individual circumstances, end-of-life situations, and "what if's." But, God is an ABSOLUTE GOD and a GOD OF ABSOLUTES! One should bring the focus back to HIM and what HE has accomplished!

Retrobyter

[Thaddaeus]

Larryt,

Your reasoning is the "wisdom of man" and not the Word of God. What you said to me is:

This verse does not fit my theology and therefore must mean something else.

Back up your statement with scripture.

The statement by John that "we cannot sin" has to do with the new birth/new creation in Christ Jesus. Check the context of chapter 3. We shall be like Him. You show me that you do not understand the new birth, being born again from above, bing a NEW CREATURE/CREATION in Christ.

When you say it is from the wisdom of men, you are correct. It is the wisdom of the inspired writers who wrote in Greek. It has been explained in the Greek for centuries. We have had no difficulty in translating that understanding. However, the word of God does not speak except through those that attempt to interpret it on their own which is what most do. That makes is man-made and not from scripture.

What you say is your theology. But if you are attempting to understand it as it has been understood for 2000 years, then it does not fit that understanding. I understand fully the new birth as is has been understood in Christianity since the beginning. Can you show any scripture to support your view which you have not done yet. What I do not understand is your understanding of the new birth.

I understand the New Birth as it has always been understood. I do not depend on either man nor surely my puny ability to interpret outside of the what the Apostles gave to us in the beginning. It was ONCE given, to all for all. It is my obligation to understand it but not interpret it. Surely not the liking I may prefer.

[Thaddaeus]

Retrobyter,

(1) That justification of a person by God is accomplished BY GOD and not by any good works which we have done. Thus, our justification, not accomplished by good works, is not affected by our bad deeds. In fact, to be justified, one MUST first be a sinner! Justification is freely given without the need to first be cleaned up to come to the Lord.

It is not overlooked. It just is not relevant to the saving of ones soul. What you are describing is what Christ accomplished on the Cross for mankind. It is called the redemption of man, or the world, of sinners. Christ is called the Savior of the World. Our human natures needed to be corrected first. The fall needed to be reversed. The condemnation of death needed to be overcome. Christ did all of that, because man is totally incapable of doing this for himself. But it opened the door for man to fulfill his created purpose, to be in union with God for an eternity. This union is called the salvation of ones soul.

HE does the cleansing after a person comes to Him.

It is ONLY because of the justification of life and the atonment that Christ can offer Himself to us. Can offer union and communion with Him as we were created to be and do from the very beginning. But the key, active phrase here is "after a person comes to Him". God calls all men to repentance. We, all of mankind, will give an active answer to that call. It is that choice on which man will be judged in the end. God does not cleanse us unless and ONLY until we believe, repent and enter into that union with Him to be healed, to be conformed to His Image, to be like Christ. But we can leave that relationship any time we desire. It is our very own desire, willingness to be IN Christ that God honors. He compels no man. Man was created to freely choose, why would God then impose His will on man. He desires that all be saved, that all come to know Him as their Lord and Master.

God does what man cannot do, but obligates man to fulfill the very purpose of his existance.

2) That we are BORN into His family, not just adopted or placed by DCF! How does one become "un-born?" God asked the question, "Can a mother forget her baby?" Then answers it, "Well, a mother MAY be able to forget her baby, but I'll never forget YOU!" We are joint-heirs with the Messiah Yeshua`! God does not "re-write His will" every time someone sins and then comes back to Him! He not only KNOWS the end from the beginning; He DECLARES the end from the beginning!!!

This is an old worn out, trite, and inconsistant analogy that OSAS always bring up. It is totally irrelevant. It stems from the total misunderstanding of the purpose of man's creation and then the salvation of mankind. It literally denies the fall itself. If you really hold to this kind of metaphor as real, then how do you explain Adam falling from walking with God in the Garden? They are one and the same as believers today.

(3) There is a difference between committing a sin and having a SIN-NATURE. Asking forgiveness for a particular sin will get forgiveness for that sin, but a believer in Yeshua` as Messiah should have asked forgiveness for being a SINFUL CREATURE! When God, for the Messiah's sake, forgives a person for being a SINFUL CREATURE, He forgives ALL OUR SIN, past, present, and future!

Where does it actually say this in scripture? Where does it say we need to ask for forgiveness of what you call our sin nature.

You fail to understand that Christ assumed that fallen nature, redeemed it. Reconciled it back to God. Overcame death which is the cause of our fallenness. We sin from our fallen natures. Why would a believer need to ask for forgiveness of this nature when Christ has already abolished the bondage to that nature. Christ did not, however, abolish sin, nor our fallen natures in this life. He kept us in a fallen environment, with fallen natures but that with His help man can overcome the temptations, can overcome the wiles of the devil. It is this very test, work, that He requries for the salvation of your soul. That is why we are called to work out our salvation. We are to work to endure. We must remain In Him so that we can be strengthened in faith, grow in faith, become more conformed to His Image.

But sin is every present. Sin can overtake us, can become the slave of a believer and he will fall from being a believer. That is why repentance and confession, daily, is a constant necessity for a believer to remain In Christ. Sin can and often does separate one from God. There is no text, nothing is Scripture that supports the idea of OSAS. When we are saved through our faith, it is our faith that must endure. If we lose faith, we no longer are being saved. The whole NT speaks directly to this topic, way over 50% , yet we have many who deny most of the NT when they are led by this false teaching of OSAS. It stems mostly from the fact you conflate the Work of Christ and what He did for mankind and the saving of our human natures, with the salvation of individual man's soul. This is quite evident in your first statment and most others who support this view.

For me, this settled the matter completely, and that's what faith is all about. It's trusting God to do for us the impossible and then resting in HIM! Justification by God is all about how GOD ACCEPTS US,

This is the first part. The Work of Christ on the Cross which man cannot do, has nothing to contribute to it

not about our accepting God!

this is the part in which man plays a role. It is the salvation of his own soul. God does not save your soul without your permission and active support. It is all about the interrelationship between man and 'God. This is why man was created in the first place. It is what man fell from and needed to be restored to that ability and capability.

One should focus on GOD AND HIS POWER, not on himself/herself and his/her weakness!

But we have no weakness when we are In Chrsit. But each individual must accept Christ, must enter into His Kingdom, then remain faithful to that commitment. It is all about man being faithful, being healed from the disease of our fallenness.

For the one who keep wondering, the very fact that one is still concerned means that that one is still one of His children, because--as was said above--an unbeliever DOESN'T CARE if he/she's sinning! As a matter of fact, the world CELEBRATES sin! The person who sins has become "sophisticated," or on the streets, he/she's considered "bad" and "struts his/her stuff!" He/she's become POPULAR for his/her sin!...

Except you forgot the extreme danger of one who accepts OSAS. By simply believing once and thinking that man does nothing to contribute to the salvation of his soul, is already lost. He is no different than the unbeliever who just ignores Christ altogether. Not understanding correctly what salvation means, consists and how to obtain it, can lead to destruction as well.

But, God is an ABSOLUTE GOD and a GOD OF ABSOLUTES! One should bring the focus back to HIM and what HE has accomplished!

He is a God of absolutes. If I deny Him, He will deny me before His Father. What He has accomplished does not save your soul. It simply made it possible for you to once again enter into a union with God that was denied through the Condemnation through Adam. It is the fulfillment of why you were created as a human being, even before the fall.

[cherishedfaith]

Christ died ONCE and for ALL....

Ponder on that, but Yes...OSAS!

[Rhonda Lou]

Larryt,

I John 3:9. This verse must be understood and aligned with I John 1:6-9.

The words of I John 3:9 "does not sin" or "cannot sin" must be understood in the Greek because there it is expressed in the words that have much more meaning. A believer cannot knowingly sin, cannot practice sin. If one does so, they are in darkness and the Truth is not in Him. Man has the ability to move from one to the other. That is why we must strive, must work, must endure. We must strive against the devil who is striving mightyly to enter your life. He seeks whom he can devour. Christians are his main focus. Why work on someone you already have in your fold? That is why OSAS is such a false teachings. We, as believers do sin. And when we permit sin to dwell, to become a practice we are no longer in the Light, we are no longer IN Christ. Sin separates man from God.

Your reasoning is the "wisdom of man" and not the Word of God. What you said to me is:

This verse does not fit my theology and therefore must mean something else.

Back up your statement with scripture.

The statement by John that "we cannot sin" has to do with the new birth/new creation in Christ Jesus. Check the context of chapter 3. We shall be like Him. You show me that you do not understand the new birth, being born again from above, bing a NEW CREATURE/CREATION in Christ.

LT

Shalom, LarryT.

I believe in OSAS because of three points that the others seem to forget consistently:

(1) That justification of a person by God is accomplished BY GOD and not by any good works which we have done. Thus, our justification, not accomplished by good works, is not affected by our bad deeds. In fact, to be justified, one MUST first be a sinner! Justification is freely given without the need to first be cleaned up to come to the Lord. HE does the cleansing after a person comes to Him.

(2) That we are BORN into His family, not just adopted or placed by DCF! How does one become "un-born?" God asked the question, "Can a mother forget her baby?" Then answers it, "Well, a mother MAY be able to forget her baby, but I'll never forget YOU!" We are joint-heirs with the Messiah Yeshua`! God does not "re-write His will" every time someone sins and then comes back to Him! He not only KNOWS the end from the beginning; He DECLARES the end from the beginning!!!

(3) There is a difference between committing a sin and having a SIN-NATURE. Asking forgiveness for a particular sin will get forgiveness for that sin, but a believer in Yeshua` as Messiah should have asked forgiveness for being a SINFUL CREATURE! When God, for the Messiah's sake, forgives a person for being a SINFUL CREATURE, He forgives ALL OUR SIN, past, present, and future! We trade places with the Messiah when He was on the Roman execution device known as a "cross." As Paul put it, "He became SIN for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the RIGHTEOUSNESS of God in Him!" Before the cross, Yeshua` was without sin and knew no sin and fulfilled only the God's righteousness, because He "always did the will of His Father." ON the cross, Yeshua` BECAME our sin-nature for us, and the full weight of our punishment was upon HIM! Remember, ALL of our sin-natures were still in the future, not to mention the individual sins, when the Messiah died! The trade becomes complete when one who knows he doesn't have "a leg to stand on" in the courtroom of God the Father, comes humbly to God and asks for Him to accomplish the impossible. God then COMPLETES the trade for that person by justifying him/her and DECLARING him/her GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS FOUND IN THE MESSIAH!

For me, this settled the matter completely, and that's what faith is all about. It's trusting God to do for us the impossible and then resting in HIM! Justification by God is all about how GOD ACCEPTS US, not about our accepting God! One should focus on GOD AND HIS POWER, not on himself/herself and his/her weakness!

For the one who keep wondering, the very fact that one is still concerned means that that one is still one of His children, because--as was said above--an unbeliever DOESN'T CARE if he/she's sinning! As a matter of fact, the world CELEBRATES sin! The person who sins has become "sophisticated," or on the streets, he/she's considered "bad" and "struts his/her stuff!" He/she's become POPULAR for his/her sin!...

For one to REST on the promises of God, one must take his/her eyes off of himself/herself and his/her petty sins, and look to GOD for HIS SPIRIT'S POWER to break the "old man's" hold over him/her in his/her body. To do otherwise, is IDOLATRY!!! for what one is doing when one assumes his/her sin could separate him/her from God's love, is to assume that one's sin is GREATER than God's power to forgive! Thus, one is "belittling" God (blaspheming God), and setting one's OWN actions as GREATER--MORE POWERFUL--than GOD'S!!!

I know you're not the one to whom I should be saying all this, and I'm sure one way or another someone in this thread has already said all this, but at this point, I felt it necessary to repeat. I was hearing alot about individual circumstances, end-of-life situations, and "what if's." But, God is an ABSOLUTE GOD and a GOD OF ABSOLUTES! One should bring the focus back to HIM and what HE has accomplished!

Retrobyter

I could not agree MORE!! I've been trying to find the words myself,tion, but you said it better than I ever could. God called us, justified us, saves us, transforms us, and will glorify us. I never trust myself. I always trust God. When I declared Him Lord, that meant that I would begin cooperating with Him, submitting to Him, as He does His transforming work in me. 2 Corinthians 3:18 says of Christians, "But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, ARE CHANGED into the same image from glory to glory, EVEN AS BY THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD." In Ephesians 1:4, Paul writes, "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love." God called us to Himself before the world began. Revelation 13:8 speaks of the Lamb who was slain before the foundation of the world. Jeus came, knowing He was to die to save us. We do not accept Jesus, He accepted us. We receive what He did, and are born again, yet "no man can come to Me, except the Father which hath send Me draw Him, and I WILL raise Him up at the last day." That is because the God who saves us, also sanctifies us. To treat once saved always saved as a question of how far we can sin and still remain in God's grace misses the point that God is transforming us, and taking us away from sin. Any true Christian would not wonder how long he or she could sin and get away from it -- any true Christian would be so grateful that God SAVED him from his sin, he would let God change Him utterly as God did be giving Him spiritual birth. To believe that one must be totally obedient to the law after salvation is to miss the fact that the law was there to bring us to Christ. Paul asked the Galations, "This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" At the root of this question is the faith -- who are we letting run our lives? It is God who chose us, calls us, redeems us, saves us, draws us -- He's done it all. Are we starting with Him, and then going it on our own? Any person with the Holy Spirit in them is saved. The Holy Spirit does not leave a saved person because God said that the Holy Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory. God's Spirit can not leave a believer or He'd be going against His own Word -- and God cannot lie. I've heard it asked, what if someone quits believing. If the person was truly saved -- truly died to self -- truly did spiritually what God did physically -- is truly immersed "in Christ" and Christ in Him -- such a believer would never reject Christ -- Christ would see to it. If one does not want to submit or die to self -- just wants the forgiveness without God's promised changes to the heart, then such a one is not saved. True salvation is dying to self -- not trying to maintain salvation by one's own efforts.

The passage on sin, in Romans 6:1-2, 6-7 says, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth, we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin." If we die to self, as He has called and enpowered us to do in His sovereign control, then we will not continue to willfully flaunt sin in front of God or anybody else. That's not who we now are. If we DO flaunt sin, then we never died to self. Believe me, I've been in church all my life -- first a liturgical, main-line denomination, then a Baptist, Church of Christ, and Assembly of God church. All of them taught John 3:16, and I believed God forgave my sins through Jesus death. I knew the Bible backwards, forwards, inside out -- and taught Sunday school for years. I always tried to be good to prove to God that I accepted His sacrifice of death on my behalf -- yet I always told myself, 'Nobody is perfect, and God died to forgive this sin I'm about to do." With my mouth I confessed Jesus as Lord, but my heart was far from Him because I still wanted to be in control!! I'll follow Jesus -- but later. I know I shouldn't do this, but... That was my entire life. I had not made Him Lord. I did not want Him in control -- and fought everything that said He was in control -- I wanted HIS life, and my life also. It took a lot of pride to realize just how much I had promoted "self" to godhood. I had to die to self. I wanted to, and yearned to, and didn't know how to, but it sounded so wonderful to do that -- so noble.

In desperation, I figured out that I could not have it both ways. I had tried for 45 years to keep part of "self" in Christianity, and I couldn't do it. I couldn't save myself from "self". God had to do it all. Everything. I was nothing, and can do nothing. Those words still rankle a tad because self is in our flesh and it is always screaming -- but once I cam to that realization -- as God had been leading me and directing to for 45 years, I received Jesus as my Lord. In His power, I gave myself totally to Him. And the result is that I know He is is me, renewing, restoring, bringing me from glory to glory -- not for my sake, but for HIS. My purpose in life is to magnify His name, my Savior, my Redeemer, my Transformer, my GOD. Anybody who has come to the place of being crucified with Jesus knows what Paul means when he says, "I am crucified with CHrist, nevertheless I live, yet not I but Christ Jesus liveth in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me." Such a one who believes this would never question whether or not God would take it away. Such a one seeks to remain as close to God as possible, knowing that I must decrease and He must increase -- that every good work is Him doing it through me, that I am not my own. I am His. That, it me is what salvation is. And anybody who has such a salvation would never question whether or not it will be taken away. The God who saves, keeps. The one who has not died to self, has not been desperate enough to want to be rid of the "self" "sin" nature forever, that person need not question whether he can lose his salvation, he needs to question whether or not he has obtained it to begin with. The God who saves, keeps. It's all HIM.