Do You Believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved"

[EricH]

Only those who persevere until the end have been truly born again

Then how do you know who to put on the church membership roster?

Steve

Batter up!

(Sorry, the word "roster" just reminds me of baseball)

All we have to go by is profession of faith. If over time behavior does not measure up, church discipline kicks in. It is the Wheat and the Tares. We need to wait for the Lord of the harvest to separate them.

[stevehut]

(Sorry, the word "roster" just reminds me of baseball)

[HolyHands]

Its normally the individual who tries to justify their sinful ways. I believe the vast majority of christians that live a life a holiness, will admit that they do fall, however they do not continue to remain in the sinful. It is my opinion that this doctrine, makes room that you can live a life raising cain, and still profess to be living a life of holiness.

In the concept that its being preached or viewed to day...I don't agree with it.

But as long as we are in Christ..we will always be "saved"

What we are trying to say is that there are a whole host of people in this religious world that think they are Christians and walk this life under the teachings of OSAS and don't repent of their sins. It isn't that they just happen to fall in them. They actually walk this life thinking that Christ did everything on the cross for them and they don't have to repent of their sins they are currently living in because are taught that they are forgiven of them. They are also taught that they don't need the works of repentance which we are ordained to walk in.

Works didn't bring us the grace of salvation, but we are ordained to walk in the works of repentance or we will wind up dying in the sins that Christ saved us from because we are not repenting of them.

The blood of Christ may have washed away my past sins, but if I don't repent of my current and future sins then I will go to hell for staying in them. i.e. How many people do we know that are "Christians" but live in fornication, lie, swear, etc., without the thought of repentance? That is why this scripture was written -

2 Peter 2:20-22 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

The works that everybody is trying so hard to avoid are not "Dead", "Shiney", or "Wordly" works. They are the works we were ordained to walk in (Eph 2:10) and what we will be judged by.

How many people avoid this scripture -

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Working out my salvation is this -

Colossians 3:5-10 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

As I repent of these sins in my life I am walking in the works we were ordained to do. To deny these is to deny the will of God.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Ok..and this is a response to my post for what reasons? Clearly those who are "IN" Christ. are Doers of the word of God.

[Ovedya]

Okay....Just a thought.......

Has anyone said, "I am saved by the grace of God regardless of what I do, so therefore I can do whatever I please and still be saved in the end"?

My guess is, yes, many!

Has anyone ever said, "Now that I am saved, I must continue in the grace of God by obeying the works which Christ commanded of me, by doing the law and by being righteous according to the law.

My guess is, again, yes, many!

Who is right and who is wrong.

My answer: BOTH ARE WRONG!

[hrydavid]

I would like to say first that this is a great thread, and I thank God for it.

I feel that there is a misunderstanding of the people that are on the

[hrydavid]

Cardcaptor, if you want, check out this webpage at desiringgod.org

John Piper explains what the "if's" means in Hebrews 3:12-19, which can be applied to some of the verses that you gave.

desiringgod.org I think have the most free information about christianity on the web. He even has available 19 of his books that you can read in pdf format.

Edited January 8, 2007 by hrydavid

[spiritman]

cardcaptor,

I don't know why I can't find it, but in my email I got one of your posts concerning a link to the book of Hebrews. correct me if I'm wrong but this is teaching that If you sin after you become a Christian you were actually never a Christian is that correct?

If so what should we do with the doctrine of Sanctification ( defined as the work of the Holy Spirit in a believers life to transform him into the likenss of Christ). See scriptrure below:

1Cr 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

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1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, [even] your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

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1Th 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

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2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

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1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

And what do we do with scriptures that tell the Christian that If he or she sins that if they repent the Lord will forgive them?

such as the scripture listed below:

Psa 32:1

[TomPJr]

cardcaptor,

I don't know why I can't find it, but in my email I got one of your posts concerning a link to the book of Hebrews. correct me if I'm wrong but this is teaching that If you sin after you become a Christian you were actually never a Christian is that correct?

If so what should we do with the doctrine of Sanctification ( defined as the work of the Holy Spirit in a believers life to transform him into the likenss of Christ). See scriptrure below:

1Cr 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, [even] your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1Th 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

And what do we do with scriptures that tell the Christian that If he or she sins that if they repent the Lord will forgive them?

such as the scripture listed below:

Psa 32:1

[Thaddaeus]

hrydavid,

God gives us many gifts. The gift I

[hrydavid]

"The context in John 17:3 is specifically separating out those who know Him, meaning will not just have eternal life, but eternal life with HIM. Big difference. But to KNOW Him, we accept the conviction of the Holy Spirit working in this world to convict all men of their sins. Those that believe will have that kind of eternal life, life with HIM." (italics mine)

Im not sure I get exactly what you mean. What is the other type of eternal life you are talking about?