EricH Posted October 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted October 18, 2006 Historically There has always been a concept of a tribulation before the Return of Christ, there still is today in the Roman and Eastern Churches . I think the "rapture" idea is relatively new. That is where I always thought the bone of contention was. Not the concept of a tribulation period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigalson123 Posted October 18, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 232 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 24 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/22/1965 Share Posted October 18, 2006 The phrase "rapture" is relatively new, but how can you state that the concept of what that word infers as new? 1 Thessalonians4:13-18 13Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage each other with these words. That seems to be the passage that is referred to often when referring to the rapture. As to the tribulation and the 7 years, Daniel 9:27 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him." is where that is cited. But to be clear to my esteemed brother Leonard, I'm not concerned about the rapture, tribulation et al. Christ said only the Father knows the time, but we shouldn't be preoccupied with it. I try to live my life as if it's today the Lord will come back, and if he doesn't, that's fine to. I'm not sure why you are getting (seemingly) so worked up about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigalson123 Posted October 18, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 232 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 24 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/22/1965 Share Posted October 18, 2006 great comment ERIC I agree wholeheartedly with your reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted October 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Eric, the fact that the prophecy teachers are 'ever prospering' doesn't mean they are evil; it means that the American Church is gullible! Probably even INCLUDING these prophecy teachers. It is much easier, by the way, to become utterly convinced of a view if it consistently makes you lots of money, and gives you broad public acclaim! Personally I LOVE listening to Jack Van Impe, but I agree with him on very little of his teaching on prophecy........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjrose Posted October 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,580 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/13/1960 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Historically There has always been a concept of a tribulation before the Return of Christ, there still is today in the Roman and Eastern Churches . I think the "rapture" idea is relatively new. I believe the concept to become a reality. I have believed it from the moment I was saved. The word rapture is not going to be found in the bible though it's meaning basically "caught up in the air" when the Lord returns has just evolved over generations. Quite fitting in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted October 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Yep, I was taught the same Dispensationalist drivel when I came to the Lord. I know all the arguments. Frankly the subject just gets tiresome quickly these days. How long this dispensationalism will keep poisoning the life out of the Church is in the hands of God, not me........ So, OK, you win. I've told the truth, and people prefer their novelties. I'll tell it again next time this comes up I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted October 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2006 Yep, I was taught the same Dispensationalist drivel when I came to the Lord. I know all the arguments. Frankly the subject just gets tiresome quickly these days. How long this dispensationalism will keep poisoning the life out of the Church is in the hands of God, not me........ So, OK, you win. I've told the truth, and people prefer their novelties. I'll tell it again next time this comes up I guess. I guess I don't see the direct correlation between one holding to a classical dispensational framework (which I do not, I am moving toward more of a progressive dispensational view, or maybe classical premellinialism - I am still in flux), and one not having spiritual life. I have seen dead churches in all types of traditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John R Nolan Posted October 26, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 99 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/05/1947 Share Posted October 26, 2006 First you'll have to show me ANYWHERE in the Bible that talks about 'The Great Tribulation.' The concept is a fiction. A fraud perpetrated against the Body of Christ. Mat.24:21; Mk.13:19; Rev.2:22; Rev.7:14, are a couple of references, and, in the mouth of two or three witnesses let all things be established Possibly you could read the entirety of Mat.24 and you may see not only a tribulation for Israel, as a result of them murdering their Messiah, but also one for the Gentiles, for their "crucifying to themselves the Son of GOD afresh" by accepting man's, denominational interpretations INSTEAD of His Word It shows Mat.24:21-30 is referring to the Gentiles To suggest the great tribulation is a con job, a rort, could possibly be interpreted as a suggestion GOD made a mistake in His forward planning, and that is unlikely Possibly only those who refute the oncoming tribulation are those who fear being here for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John R Nolan Posted October 27, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 99 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/05/1947 Share Posted October 27, 2006 True, the word, "THE" does not preceed great tribulation and the arguement put forward to deny such is good, but, for some curious reason, without personally interpretreting, this brother will look forward to THE catching away of 1 Thes. before judgement strikes the world; those who don't see IT that way, good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted October 31, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 31, 2006 And going to Matt. 24 is of no avail to you at all; THAT was clearly fulfilled when "Jerusalem was compassed about with armies....." in A.D. 67. Leonard, Mat 24 is entirely based on the second coming but somehow you have managed to interpret it as the invasion of Jerusalem by Rome?... this is not the first time I have seen this argument. If you analyze Mat.24, the focus is the 2nd coming and end times. Christ was explaining to His deciples the signs of His 2nd coming and the end of the world, not the "People of the Prince that shall come" as prophesied in Daniel 9:26 which is the invasion you are referring to. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. In old times the surrounding or encompassing by an army or an invasion was also referred to as a flood "and the end thereof shall be with a flood'. Peace CJ Christopher John, your interpretations are great. I have really learned something today. And the 'cookie analogies' are awesome. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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