Openly Curious Posted October 23, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 23, 2006 PowerInTruth, I realize I am giving ammunition to those that disagree with me as I write this post but as I have taken a position on this verse, Luke 23:43 in this thread, I will make a brief reply to your post. I agree with your first paragraph. Especially, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted October 23, 2006 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted October 23, 2006 (edited) Hello Old Timer, I would like to ask you a question if I may as I have read your posts within this thread and I am a little perplexed. Do you believe in "soul sleep"? Or, are you a Seventh Day Adventist? Because it sounds like to me you are defending the "belief" and "position" of soul sleep within this thread to me. Please forgive me if I am wrong. But further clarification would help me out a great deal. thanks OC Yes, I do believe in what is commenly called soul sleep. No, I am not a member of the SDA church and I attend a local Bible Church on Sunday. Almost all members of this church do NOT believe in soul sleep. I have engaged in a Soapbox Debate defending this position and have an open invitation to anyone who wishes to debate the issue. This position was held by many Christians since the time of Christ and I feel that "going to heaven" distracts from the Blessed Hope of Titus, the 2nd coming of our Lord. William Tyndale said, "And ye, in putting the departed souls in heaven, hell and purgatory, destroy the arguments wherewith Christ and Paul prove the resurrection." I partake in many threads whenever I see "strange" beliefs intruding upon our Blessed Hope because of the non-bibical idea of "going to heaven." Edited October 23, 2006 by Old Timer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted October 23, 2006 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I just came across this thread today, but wanted to refute something that has been said. The scripture being discussed in Luke 23:43 says the following. "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." This should be clear to anyone that reads it that Jesus literally meant that the repentant sinner would be in paradise that very day. All Old Timer did was insert things into the text that are clearly not there. It never says or implies that "today because of what your just said" the repentant sinner would eventually wind up in paradise. This just shows the lengths someone will go to in trying to prove a doctrine clearly not found in scripture. The idea of soul sleep is a lie. Jesus met with Moses and Elijah during the transfiguration. If soul sleep were real, that would not have been possible. Butero, I inserted text into the verse to make my position clear. I have no intention to alter the verse. I took issue with Openly Curious because he suggested moving the comma. I am perfectly satisfied with the way the verse reads in Luke leaving the comma where it is or removing the comma altogether. Christ was in the grave, dead, for three days and nights. He committed His spirit to the Father. The Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted October 23, 2006 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I have tried my best to explain what the word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted October 23, 2006 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Butero, if any doctrine is not found in scripture it is one of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted October 23, 2006 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I repeat: The Mt. of Transfiguration was a look given into the future after the resurrection. Luke 9:23 even mentions the disciples were asleep before they saw the transfiguration. Before they witnessed the transfiguration they are told that some would not die until they see Christ coming. If this was not the event they were to see before they died then tell me when did they see Christ's 2nd coming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted October 23, 2006 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted October 23, 2006 It sure would be easier to ignore what I see in scripture and believe, like almost everyone else, the dead go to heaven and enjoy themselves in the presence of Christ. BUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted October 24, 2006 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Butero, thank you for taking the time and effort to supply answers to my questions. I found most folk are unwilling to do so, just quoting one verse, generally 2 Cor. 5:8. Your answers, one at a time: The verses you supplied to show that the dead are judged AFTER Christ returns is my point, as you said. But then to go on to a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordFish Posted October 25, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 104 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2006 Answer these few questions with scripture and you will convince me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordFish Posted October 25, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 104 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2006 (edited) Though I have answered these questions, I doubt the answers will satisfy you. you were right butero Edited October 25, 2006 by SwordFish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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