Old Timer Posted October 25, 2006 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Though I have answered these questions, I doubt the answers will satisfy you. That's right, they did not satisfy me. Did you read my reply above? I'm still waiting for the answer to my final question: What does the word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordFish Posted October 25, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 104 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2006 Though I have answered these questions, I doubt the answers will satisfy you. That's right, they did not satisfy me. Did you read my reply above? I'm still waiting for the answer to my final question: What does the word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted October 26, 2006 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted October 26, 2006 (edited) Butero, Swordfish, lol. Yes, really, I did know the definition of the word Edited October 26, 2006 by Old Timer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordFish Posted October 26, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 104 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 26, 2006 (edited) I know this has not convinced you. Perhaps you can show me some scripture that says only the body dies but the spirit is awake in heaven? If I said that only the body died but the spirit is awake in Disneyland you would be aghast and demand I support that view in scripture. Please do the same for your contention that the spirit is awake in heaven. Not just "in" heaven, but awake in heaven. the body without the spirit is dead. the body returns back to the dust of the ground from whence it came Gen 3:19. the body will decay or rot in the ground and the spirit cannot dwell in a body within that state for God breathed into the nostrils of Adam and he became a living soul. the spirit of man cannot live within a body that is decaying as the soul will leave this earthly body at the time of death and return to God who gave it to us. Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was and the "spirit" shall return unto God who gave it." (now that is pretty plain) seeing that there is no death in heaven it stands to reason............right the spirit is the life that lived in this earthly body and when that life leaves this earthly body that life returns back to God who gave it while the body returns to the dust of the ground. (to cover your cleverly wording above that the spirit is awake in heaven. Not just in heaven, but awake in heaven. i will also ask the same from you to prove scripturally that they are dead in heaven or in the grave) Ecclesiastes 3:16-22 it tells us in this passage that we are just like the beasts we were formed from the dust of the earth same as them in how that all the beasts have all one breath same as man that God gave in the beginning this is in verse 18 to 21 in this text. 18-21 "I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men befalleth beasts even one thing befalleth them as the one dieth so dieth the other yea they have all one breath so that a man hath no preeminece above a beast for all is vanity. All go unto one place all are of the dust and all turn to dust again Who knoweth the "spirit" of man that "goeth upward" and the "spirit" of the beast that "goeth downward" to the earth." the text here clearly shows that the body goes to dust but the spirit of man goeth upward to God. as man is body soul and spirit. it says that the spirit of the beast goeth downward to the earth the exact opposite of man. this is because the animals only have body and spirits they do not possess a soul as mankind does so their body like ours goes back to the dust from which it was formed. and the spirits of the animals being the life that was in their bodies goes back to God from whence it came. as it says "all go unto one place the body to the ground the life of the flesh returns to God. Job 34:14,15 "If he set his heart upon man if he "gather unto himself" his "spirit" and his "breath" All flesh shall perish together and man shall turn again unto dust." again scriptures shows when God gathers unto "himself" the spirit and soul or breath of man then the flesh being our bodies that God's own spirit and breath dwells in shall perish without it and our flesh will return to dust once again but the life of the body will return to God from whence it came. as there is no death in God's abode only life as he is the giver and sustainer of all life. so if God takes our lives from us back to himself then we are yet alive in his presence but our flesh will return to the dust of the ground until the ressurrection of the body when our spirits and souls will be reuntited with our bodies once again. well i doubt this will be enough for you but it is all biblically there within the word. maybe we should agree to disagree. Edited October 26, 2006 by SwordFish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted October 26, 2006 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted October 26, 2006 Certainly the spirit returns to God who gave it. Christ committed His spirit to the Father on the cross. It is the condition of that spirit that is in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted October 26, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 26, 2006 Certainly the spirit returns to God who gave it. Christ committed His spirit to the Father on the cross. It is the condition of that spirit that is in question. Hello Old Timer, If Christ is your example of committing His Spirit to the Father on the cross. Do you not believe Christ is yet alive today in the presence of the Holy Father sitting on the right hand of God on the throne. We as believers have also commited ourselves unto the Lord Jesus Christ and it says in Proverbs that if we commit our way unto the Lord then he will direct our paths. Also that He is able to keep that which we have committed unto His trust which was our lives our life our spirits and souls against that day. Christ was seen after the ressurrection after those three days in the heart of the earth. Ephesians 4:8-10 -descended 1 Peter 3:19 -preached Revelation 1:18 -took possesion of the keys Acts 1:3,9 -seen of witnesses ascended back to heaven 1 Corinthians 15:4-8 -- seen by people on earth for 40 days before his final asenscion John chapters 20 & 21 all are taking place after Christ arose from the grave as their are witnesses Christ even ate fish with his disciple before his final departure. Ephesians 4:8-10 - show all those ones who were held captive in paradise Abraham's bosom being comforted by Abraham were released and taken back to heaven with Christ when he ascended back to heaven with him and then sent the Holy Spirit to the earth and gave gifts unto men being the gifts of the Spirit of God. Paradise was taken to heaven now and no longer is in the heart of the earth as Christ defeated Satan and took authority of death hell and the grave away from him as he no longer has the authourity to hold the believers when they die captive in a prison cell as Christ has the keys now of Abraham's bosom being paraidise which is not longer in heart of the earth part of the under world of departed spirits but it is an empty compartment Revelation 1:18 but it is in heaven now and where the spirits of the saints go until the time of the ressurrection and redemption of our bodies to wit. The condition of Christ body after the resurrection is quite clear in the word of God as being alive and not dead. So shall it be with us. As Christ is the firstfruits from the dead. Lazurus was risen from the dead but he had to die all over again meaning his spirit had to leave his physical body yet once again as he had not recieved his glorified body as of yet but Christ did being the firstfruits of the resurrection of the dead. At the time of the resurrection of the redemption of our bodies to wit as it tells us in Romans 8 our spirits await that time in heaven in the presence of the Lord. All life does go back to God when it leaves our body. The key word is "Life" not death but our life goes to be with the Lord but our dead lifeless bodies return to dust from where they came form and was formed but our life goes to be in the very presence of the Lord. You said, "surely the spirit returns to God who gave it." If that is indeed true then the Spirit of God is life and not death so the Spirit would indeed be alive for God is not dead but alive and so is his Spirit that lives and abides within the heart of the believer. OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted October 26, 2006 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted October 26, 2006 Hello Old Timer, If Christ is your example of committing His Spirit to the Father on the cross. Do you not believe Christ is yet alive today in the presence of the Holy Father sitting on the right hand of God on the throne. We as believers have also commited ourselves unto the Lord Jesus Christ and it says in Proverbs that if we commit our way unto the Lord then he will direct our paths. Also that He is able to keep that which we have committed unto His trust which was our lives our life our spirits and souls against that day. Christ was seen after the ressurrection after those three days in the heart of the earth. Ephesians 4:8-10 -descended 1 Peter 3:19 -preached Revelation 1:18 -took possesion of the keys Acts 1:3,9 -seen of witnesses ascended back to heaven 1 Corinthians 15:4-8 -- seen by people on earth for 40 days before his final asenscion John chapters 20 & 21 all are taking place after Christ arose from the grave as their are witnesses Christ even ate fish with his disciple before his final departure. Ephesians 4:8-10 - show all those ones who were held captive in paradise Abraham's bosom being comforted by Abraham were released and taken back to heaven with Christ when he ascended back to heaven with him and then sent the Holy Spirit to the earth and gave gifts unto men being the gifts of the Spirit of God. Paradise was taken to heaven now and no longer is in the heart of the earth as Christ defeated Satan and took authority of death hell and the grave away from him as he no longer has the authourity to hold the believers when they die captive in a prison cell as Christ has the keys now of Abraham's bosom being paraidise which is not longer in heart of the earth part of the under world of departed spirits but it is an empty compartment Revelation 1:18 but it is in heaven now and where the spirits of the saints go until the time of the ressurrection and redemption of our bodies to wit. The condition of Christ body after the resurrection is quite clear in the word of God as being alive and not dead. So shall it be with us. As Christ is the firstfruits from the dead. Lazurus was risen from the dead but he had to die all over again meaning his spirit had to leave his physical body yet once again as he had not recieved his glorified body as of yet but Christ did being the firstfruits of the resurrection of the dead. At the time of the resurrection of the redemption of our bodies to wit as it tells us in Romans 8 our spirits await that time in heaven in the presence of the Lord. All life does go back to God when it leaves our body. The key word is "Life" not death but our life goes to be with the Lord but our dead lifeless bodies return to dust from where they came form and was formed but our life goes to be in the very presence of the Lord. You said, "surely the spirit returns to God who gave it." If that is indeed true then the Spirit of God is life and not death so the Spirit would indeed be alive for God is not dead but alive and so is his Spirit that lives and abides within the heart of the believer. OC Please don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted October 26, 2006 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted October 26, 2006 It Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted October 26, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 26, 2006 You quote Christ and His reference to Jonah. Did Jonah go to Paradise for three days? Is the Tree of Life in Paradise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted October 26, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 26, 2006 Hello Old Timer, If Christ is your example of committing His Spirit to the Father on the cross. Do you not believe Christ is yet alive today in the presence of the Holy Father sitting on the right hand of God on the throne. We as believers have also commited ourselves unto the Lord Jesus Christ and it says in Proverbs that if we commit our way unto the Lord then he will direct our paths. Also that He is able to keep that which we have committed unto His trust which was our lives our life our spirits and souls against that day. Christ was seen after the ressurrection after those three days in the heart of the earth. Ephesians 4:8-10 -descended 1 Peter 3:19 -preached Revelation 1:18 -took possesion of the keys Acts 1:3,9 -seen of witnesses ascended back to heaven 1 Corinthians 15:4-8 -- seen by people on earth for 40 days before his final asenscion John chapters 20 & 21 all are taking place after Christ arose from the grave as their are witnesses Christ even ate fish with his disciple before his final departure. Ephesians 4:8-10 - show all those ones who were held captive in paradise Abraham's bosom being comforted by Abraham were released and taken back to heaven with Christ when he ascended back to heaven with him and then sent the Holy Spirit to the earth and gave gifts unto men being the gifts of the Spirit of God. Paradise was taken to heaven now and no longer is in the heart of the earth as Christ defeated Satan and took authority of death hell and the grave away from him as he no longer has the authourity to hold the believers when they die captive in a prison cell as Christ has the keys now of Abraham's bosom being paraidise which is not longer in heart of the earth part of the under world of departed spirits but it is an empty compartment Revelation 1:18 but it is in heaven now and where the spirits of the saints go until the time of the ressurrection and redemption of our bodies to wit. The condition of Christ body after the resurrection is quite clear in the word of God as being alive and not dead. So shall it be with us. As Christ is the firstfruits from the dead. Lazurus was risen from the dead but he had to die all over again meaning his spirit had to leave his physical body yet once again as he had not recieved his glorified body as of yet but Christ did being the firstfruits of the resurrection of the dead. At the time of the resurrection of the redemption of our bodies to wit as it tells us in Romans 8 our spirits await that time in heaven in the presence of the Lord. All life does go back to God when it leaves our body. The key word is "Life" not death but our life goes to be with the Lord but our dead lifeless bodies return to dust from where they came form and was formed but our life goes to be in the very presence of the Lord. You said, "surely the spirit returns to God who gave it." If that is indeed true then the Spirit of God is life and not death so the Spirit would indeed be alive for God is not dead but alive and so is his Spirit that lives and abides within the heart of the believer. OC Please don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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